Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger.

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Dutch Uncle

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Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger.
« on: October 08, 2015, 03:50:56 PM »
So, I don't need to do that here.

I had a shouting match with my dad. And it was me who was doing practically all the shouting.
And I must admit: There are signs I finally got through his thick skull. So that's progress.

But the biggest progress for me is that I vented my anger to my abuser. My abuser in the now.
Long and complicated story short: For some perceived crime I did, he told me "Your behavior is unworthy of a father-son relationship."
Well, that did shut me up!
Tried to address this during the boat trip I had with him a while ago. It was shrugged off.
Yesterday he 'committed' another boundary violation, and I called him out on it. During the ensuing argument I finally shouted out my frustration, anger, hurt, indignation, outrage over his diminishment of my contribution as a 'son'.

Wiggle wiggle, lies, obfuscation, bouncing the ball back… JADE JADE JADE, DARVO DARVO DARVO by him. I called him out every time. Shouted harder if I needed to. I bet my neighbors have either enjoyed themselves or have sat quiet in their sofas in horror. I couldn't care less.

Will anything good come out of this?
Perhaps not regarding me and my dad, perhaps it will.
But what certainly is good and progress: I called him out on yesterdays boundary violation (basically: don't call me unless it's urgent, and he did phone me yesterday, three times, for just a chat. I didn't answer the phone since I was out.) and a few other ones. I have made it clear that he can't violate my boundaries, no matter how he justifies for himself he can. (I won't get into the crazy ways he makes himself believe he can do that.)

In the end he 'thanked' me for being so up front, and tried to use this as an urgent why he should call!  :pissed:
Yeah, thanks that for getting me over the line... :thumbdown:
And I told him so.

Good grief. These people who simply don't acknowledge other peoples boundaries and even thank them for being shouted at!  :stars:
So there is still some way to go.
Told him again that I am really NC with sis, in an effort to make clear to him he doesn't whitewash that at some point in the future.
Good grief.
I do have a faint hope he'll get it at some point.
But I certainly am getting faith in me being able to stand up for my boundaries, and adding consequences to anybody who violates them at a regular and persistent basis.

It's a struggle. But I'm getting the hang of it. He did apologize at some point. First a fauxpology, so I called him out on that. Then he made a real one. Backtracked later, of course, so I shouted him back on track. Good grief. That I had the guts to take 'all or nothing'.
Anger vented, at the right time and at the right person for the right infractions/boundary violations.
A work in progress. (pun intended  ;) )

Thanks for reading and a place to share.
I couldn't tell this with so much peace in me to people who have parents who do respect boundaries. No matter how much these people friends care for me and know I'm a good person. Of course they are dumbfounded by my attitude to my parents and siblings. I used to be the same before I started to get out of the FOG.

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arpy1

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Re: Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger.
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2015, 04:22:30 PM »
well done, dear D/U.  that must have taken it out of you!

i am proud for you that you are doing the boundaries thing, and it also it gives me hope that maybe one day i shall be able to learn too.

 :hug: :hug:

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Dutch Uncle

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Re: Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger.
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2015, 04:40:41 PM »
Thanks arpy1  :hug:

I know you will be able too. You already have done so with the T.  :thumbup:
It's a struggle. And it will never end. As in: I'm convinced also people with no CPTSD find it hard to assert boundaries. But they do not carry the same weight as us.

I'm convinced we can learn. And boundary setting and guarding will 'only' be as hard as for the 'normal' people.  ;D

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Kizzie

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Re: Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger.
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2015, 08:13:11 PM »
Well done Dutch!   :hug:

I found that my NPD FOO would conveniently 'forget' boundaries so I was constantly having to reinforce/guard them - so tiresome and one reason I went NC and LC. It just took too much time and energy. My M used every trick in the book to skirt the boundaries I set but I hung in there and did not give an inch, mainly because I learned quickly that if I did she would take a mile. ;D  It is in the nature of the personality disorder to do so imo. 'Normal' people get boundaries, those with PDs don't. 

That said, my NPDM does not boundary bash like she once did.  Part of that is because I am NC LC with her, but another part is that she did eventually learn my 'rules' even if she doesn't understand them (and to this day still makes 'subtle' comments to that effect).  So hang in there with your F, he may just do the same.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 11:06:55 PM by Kizzie »

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Dutch Uncle

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Re: Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger.
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2015, 08:26:10 PM »
Thanks so much, Kizzie.
It's good to know the hard work we do might pay off after all, one way or another.  :hug:

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Kizzie

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Re: Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger.
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2015, 11:06:30 PM »
Sorry, that should have been LC (versus NC) lol  :doh:

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Dutch Uncle

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Re: Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger.
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2015, 07:39:38 AM »
Great.  ;D
I'd rather have LC than NC.  :thumbup:

I found that my NPD FOO would conveniently 'forget' boundaries so I was constantly having to reinforce/guard them
After I had run directly to the forum to share this (to make sure I'd set it in stone  ;) ), and cooled off a bit more, I rehashed the conversation and wrote down a key phrase my dad spoke.
He'd rather have a phone-conversation than write me (which is a pathetic attempt not to respect my 'no phone'-policy, but that's beside the point here) for the following reason: "If I write I have the feeling I'm pinning myself down." !!!!! BAM! There you have it!
"This is exactly the problem!" I realized even at the time he said it. (Didn't call him out on it. I guess I didn't want to provoke him in retracting it ;D )
And I think, but please correct me if I'm wrong, it tells exactly why he ('they') 'forgets' these things: They refuse to be 'pinned down', and by the same mechanism (presumably) they also don't respect other people who do 'pin themselves down' i.e. set boundaries and accept accountability, even if we know that we might at some point have to say: "Oops, I was wrong. My apologies for that."

So, I'm not holding my breath he will accept my 'self-pin-downment', put possibly in the future I might have a further talk on this with him: "Dad, what's wrong with making a statement, standing for something, pinning yourself down?"
Oh well, that's probably fantasy-land.
But I'm definitely not following in his footsteps anymore (not that I was ever an adamant follower of him in the first place  ;) ), and I don't want to end up afraid of 'pinning myself down' at 80 still.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 08:05:01 AM by Dutch Uncle »

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Dutch Uncle

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Re: Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger.
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2015, 06:19:09 PM »
Pfff… Today I feel drained.
Watching an episodes of "a Touch of Frost', a detective series. Cried my eyes out when Jack Frost stepped up to defend an fellow (subordinate) detective being wrongful accused of a crime (drug addiction), by the most senior officer, while at the time being in a coma in an Intensive Care Unit after he got beaten up in a public lavatory while on duty.
People standing up for the character of their fellow human beings, even when it might cost them their career/standing… Good grief, few of those around.
Same episode Jack Frost is confronted with a lovely 18 year old girl thinking he's her father. Jack finds out, after a while, she's not. He doubts if he wants to/should tell her. He does. Both express, at their goodbye: "You would have been the perfect choice for a dad/ you would have been a great daughter to have. Please stay in touch."
Had me burst in tears again.

This is a messed op world.

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Kizzie

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Re: Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger.
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2015, 06:51:59 PM »
Pfff… Today I feel drained.
Watching an episodes of "a Touch of Frost', a detective series. Cried my eyes out when Jack Frost stepped up to defend an fellow (subordinate) detective being wrongful accused of a crime (drug addiction), by the most senior officer, while at the time being in a coma in an Intensive Care Unit after he got beaten up in a public lavatory while on duty.

People standing up for the character of their fellow human beings, even when it might cost them their career/standing… Good grief, few of those around.

Same episode Jack Frost is confronted with a lovely 18 year old girl thinking he's her father. Jack finds out, after a while, she's not. He doubts if he wants to/should tell her. He does. Both express, at their goodbye: "You would have been the perfect choice for a dad/ you would have been a great daughter to have. Please stay in touch."
Had me burst in tears again.

Of course it brought tears Dutch, of course -  :hug:  It's all we have wanted and longed for but could not have, not from our parents at least.  I am starting to see though that those people are out there and moreover, that I am that kind of person in spite of or maybe because of having CPTSD.  And that is going a very long way to filling that big, aching hole in my heart. 



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Dutch Uncle

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Re: Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger.
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2015, 10:59:13 AM »
I write this post mostly for myself, as a reminder that "I'm already doing the right thing."
(and since I linked to this post in my recovery journal, I feel it's best to keep all the 'records' regarding this event in one place.)

Today I'm reading through some (online) articles of Pete Walker, and in "Shrinking the Inner Critic"(http://www.pete-walker.com/shrinkingInnerCritic.htm) I came across this:
Quote from: Pete walker
Here is a list of 14 common inner critic attacks divided into the key categories of perfectionism and endangerment. Each is paired with a healthier (and typically more accurate) thought-substitution response.
[…]
#4 Self-Hate, Self-Disgust & Toxic Shame I commit to myself. I am on my side. I am a good enough person. I refuse to trash myself. I turn shame back into blame and disgust, and externalize it to anyone who shames my normal feelings and foibles. As long as I am not hurting anyone, I refuse to be shamed for normal emotional responses like anger, sadness, fear and depression. I especially refuse to attack myself for how hard it is to completely eliminate the self-hate habit.

When I read this, I realized this is exactly what I have done this time.
I had internalized his offensive remarks, for months, until at last I vented it, externalized it, right at the external perpetrator.
This was not externalizing an 'internal flaw' to someone who had nothing to do with it, on the contrary. I was no longer internalizing that what had been pressed on me externally.

Yay me.  ;D
I am already doing the right thing.

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arpy1

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Re: Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger.
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2015, 12:06:56 PM »
 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

excellent!   :hug:

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Kizzie

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Re: Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger.
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2015, 01:28:00 AM »
Quote
I commit to myself.
           I am on my side.
                  I am a good enough person.

Great words to live by in recovery   :thumbup:

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Dutch Uncle

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Re: Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger.
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2015, 11:06:56 AM »
I have to write a small addendum to this, since it's to weird to tell anywhere else:

In this phone call I reiterated I only wanted contact with him via letters, not phone (unless 'urgent'.) This is already the case for a year now.
He is vehemently opposed to this, and the argument he made was (no kidding): "I don't want to write, because then I feel I have to pin myself down. And that's bad. Worldwars have been started by letters, they are BAD! Franz Ferdinand got a letter and see what happened!"

I don't know if I should  ;D or  :sadno:, but over the course of the weeks since the call, I have had a few freeing  :rofl: about it.
And to be honest, I think the :rofl: is the sane response.
Good grief, nonetheless.

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arpy1

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Re: Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger.
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2015, 11:54:16 AM »
i see what you mean.... :aaauuugh: :blowup: !!!

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Dutch Uncle

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Re: Progress? I guess so. I vented my anger.
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2015, 09:59:28 AM »
Today I made a rather horrific discovery: I am my father's scapegoat.

I realized that I am not free to have my own thoughts. Let's forget about opinions: not even my thoughts are mine to have.
He dismisses what I say, by quite literally taken my thoughts on any given matter away from me, then implants his own thoughts on my thoughts on me, and these thoughts of 'mine' are always heavily objectionable if not outright evil which gives him the 'opportunity' to dismiss 'me' wholeheartedly.

I just saw my last post on the "letters=worldwar" and this is a good case in point: I want to communicate via letters, his thought substitution is that letters create world wars---> my son wants to create world wars ---> my son is evil.

I have better examples, much more direct and less ambiguous, but at the moment I'm too tired to write them down. But I have been in situations where he puts outrageous thoughts on me, and no matter how often I tell him that is NOT what I think, it doesn't matter, he knows what I really think, this outrageous and evil thought he has in his mind about me, and I get shunned and shouted at for it.

I have never before seen so clear I am his scapegoat. Actually, I have never before seen I was his scapegoat, but the lightbulb has just been lit up.

Good grief.

My father is a very biblical man, so perhaps I should tell him this the next time he does this (which is undoubtedly at some point in the next meeting I have with him), perhaps it will strike a cord if I refer to the biblical scapegoat.
But I fear it will change a thing.

Thought-substitution…
Horrific.

We need a dancing-scapegoat smiley.
 :rundog: