Narcissistic traits?

[Laynelove]

Hi all,

I've been researching narcissism a lot lately to try and make sense of the emotional abuse I suffered growing up, but when I stumbled upon 'covert narcissism' it sounds exactly like me which is terrifying.

I have fantasies about having friends, being thin and being in a relationship. I feel good when people praise me. I'm hypersensitive to critisism and rejection, I change who I am to suit who I am with at the time and I crave attention, love and physical affection.

On the other hand though, I'm a very sensitive and emotional person and as far as I know I think my feelings towards others are genuine?? I don't intentionally have an agenda, motive or need to use other people to my advantage as far as I know but now I'm starting to think that maybe I just use people to make myself feel better? There are plenty of family members I love, and a few ex boyfriends I know I was in love with. But now I'm starting to second guess myself.

Is it possible that emotional abuse can cause narcissistic traits in me without me having the actual personality disorder?? Does anyone else feel like they have narc tendencies as a result of their experience?

[Dutch Uncle]

Does anyone else feel like they have narc tendencies as a result of their experience?

It got so bad with me I actually had a SCID-II test taken. To quote myself: "Doc, I need a reality check."
So, if you really doubt yourself, I can recommend having taken one on you. It might cost a few bucks, but you'll be SURE. As an advertisement once famously said: "Priceless."

My personal and highly non-professional guess: You are not a covert narcissist. Though you may have caught "Fleas" as it's informally called.
That's nothing bad, as a kid I once caught lice. Embarrassing, discomforting, but nothing that can't be treated with relative ease.

So, even though I'm still somewhat recovering from the fact my FOO and other circumstances have driven me to actually go and have it checked out by professionals if I had a personality disorder (Talk about having been abused!  ) , it's quite common among people like 'us' to think we are the 'culprit'.

Sending you strength, I can relate to how you might feel. 

edited to add: I just stumbled on this description of 'Fleas'. Since I love analogies to physical things, I thought I'd share:

You'll hear people mention FLEAS. If you've never heard of them, here's the explanation of what they are:

Let's say you were raised by deaf parents. They had no problem when things crashed on the floor, making a horrible sound. They let you slam the door and they let the dog bark at night and had no problem with nails on a chalkboard. You could play your clarinet at all hours, so 11:00 PM was a fine time to practice.

And let's say you turned 18 and went off to college and got a hearing roommate. She complained when you slammed your dresser drawers early in the morning when heading off to class as she slept in. The 11:00 clarinet didn't go over so big, either. Sometimes you made a lot of noise and didn't realize it.

Well, if someone paid close attention, they might think you were hard of hearing, wouldn't they? I mean, you just didn't seem to be aware of how much annoying noise you were causing. But you COULD hear – you were just raised in an environment that was shaped by deaf people, and that affected your behavior.

Well, FLEAS are a little like that. When you're raised by a Narcissist, you have to do things their way.
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[Kizzie]

Hi LayneLove - I definitely had the same experience but through our sister site OOTF realized that the thing that separates me from my covert NPD M is that I actually question myself - she does not, she thinks it's everyone else who has problems.  She would never show up here on this site or any other one unless it was to claim attention for herself (versus recover).

My (non-professional) view is that there's a continuum those of us travel when we are abused and traumatized as children. Go too far and you develop a personality disorder like NPD in which the self is so small and broken you become N (or another PD) just to keep going in life.  Before that point, however, there is mild to severe CPTSD in which parts of the self are separated as a safety strategy (e.g., we hide our Inner Child), but are not completely lost.

Recovery for us then becomes somewhat of a exercise in gathering back up and strengthening the parts so that we are operating in a healthier, more unified way. And that may look somewhat N, but really it's caring for our health and well-being in a way we've never been able to before.  Recovery for my NM, well sadly from what I read NPD is very treatment resistant.

So, I do think there is such a thing as "healthy" narcissism - focusing on recovery would be one example so onward! 

[no_more_fear]

Don't worry, I've been there. I've thought I had everything, from NPD to Stokholm. With me, the times that I think I have these things is when I'm letting my ICr go mad because I'm in an EF. Could that be what's happening with you? When I get out of the EF I beat myself up for letting myself think there were all these things wrong with me.

Kizzie is right about Narcs being unaware. You wouldn't even be thinking you might have that if in fact you really did. Plus, if you were near that kind of thing for a long time some of the traits are invariably going to rub off on you, it's impossible for some of them not too.

It sounds more like those things are co-dependancy traits, to be honest. Have you done much research on co-dependancy?

[Laynelove]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the re assuring replies! I'm in a really paranoid state atm. I was thinking just as I as replying 'maybe I posted this because I wanted attention or someone to tell me I'm not sick even when I know I am'. I get myself worked up into these states where I convince myself I have a certain illness and then stress myself out over it.

It's a bit OCD maybe? I think the reason I do it is because I've seen many therapists and a psychiatrist and have only ever been diagnosed with depression and anxiety but I've always felt like there is something deeper wrong with me but none of them will listen.

Hypochondriact. Maybe I am in a ef but I have no idea what the trigger was.

So how did you guys realise or prove to yourself that you don't have npd? How can I get rid of the narc traits I'm unhappy with? Imagine if I caused another person to feel how I feel all because I projected my self hatred onto them 😞

[AgandFe]

I'm definitely not a professional mental health worker, but I've done a lot of research on NPD because of my experiences with people with NPD and ASPD.

Short answer to your OP? If you are worried that you might have NPD, you don't. A narc or a psychopath would never, ever worry about that. As I understand it, a Narc doesn't have the insight for it, and a Psychopath would consider it a strength, never a weakness.

I think living with one of these disordered types is like living with a fire breathing dragon. If you are going to survive it, you get used to living in armor. Sometimes that armor can make us look like we might be similar, but we just became what we had to become to survive.

When I was with the sadistic psychopath (that was his psychiatrist's official diagnosis of him, not my own), I had to learn how he thought. I had to get to know how his mind worked so that I could anticipate what to do, so that I could make it out of that situation alive. I'm damn lucky I did. When I get scared, I revert back to thinking like he did because it saved me before, if that makes any sense? I'm definitely not a psychopath, however. I feel incredible guilt if I hurt someone, even if they deserved it. I rescue shelter animals, I doubt myself continually and I've had the same doubts but came to the conclusion that I'm not a monster, I just learned to mimic one because I had to.

Sorry that was so long.

[Dutch Uncle]

So how did you guys realise or prove to yourself that you don't have npd? How can I get rid of the narc traits I'm unhappy with? Imagine if I caused another person to feel how I feel all because I projected my self hatred onto them 😞

Well, I had the SCID-II, so I'm certified a non-PD. I had a team of psychologist prove it to me.
I did tick a few boxes, I have a few traits of some PD's, but well below the 'threshold'. I might work on those with a T at some point, but already I now reread the test-results to check certain behaviors.
F.e. I ticked #5 of the Dependent PD: "Goes to excessive lengths to obtain nurturance and support from others, to the point of volunteering to do things that are unpleasant". Realizing I do this dysfunctional thing has strengthened my resolve in putting up better boundaries, and I far less do unpleasant things than I did before.
And I stopped doing it out of Fear, Obligation or Guilt altogether (I hope  ), but I will do an unpleasant task if one of my friends is ill.

What also helps is to deliberately minimize things, as I often 'catastrophize' (as I was taught to do, by example  ). As an example, I'll do this to the rest of your post: (disclaimer: I'm not a psych, so this is 'free association', not an psycho-analasys)

I'm in a really paranoid state a bit uncertain atm. I was thinking just as I was replying 'maybe I posted this because I wanted attention or someone to tell me I'm not sick even when I know I am was looking for some validation and company, as all humans do from time to time'. I get myself worked up into worried a bit in these states where I convince question myself if I have a certain illness and then stress myself out over it talk online to some folks to share my thoughts and worries and wish for some feedback.

On the OCD and Hypochondria: Just because you have certain routines and/or habits doesn't make you OCD, and worrying about being ill doesn't make you a hypochondriac. You don't feel well so of course you will look for an illness you might have. Moreover, I think you are looking for a cure, which is not really something a hypochondriac is aiming for. (As far as I understand what hypochondria actually is.)

Hope this helped.
You are OK.

[tired]

Psychobabble alert: I am totally guessing on this.

Narcissism is a normal trait in babies.  Babies get a lot of unconditional attention and indulgence and eventually move past this stage.  Let's say a baby doesn't get that attention and becomes stuck with that lingering need. That may look like narcissistic traits.

Now let's say the person sees no problem with this trait and chooses to make it a lifestyle. That's a personality disorder.

[Kizzie]

Short answer to your OP? If you are worried that you might have NPD, you don't. A narc or a psychopath would never, ever worry about that. As I understand it, a Narc doesn't have the insight for it, and a Psychopath would consider it a strength, never a weakness.