Perfectionism -is this a problem for others with cptsd ?

[Boatsetsailrose]

Hi I wanted to share about my perfectionism and ask if others have same / similar

Obsessional thinking started for me in my teen yrs - I'd do rhymes to aid relief of my anxiety -
Lining things up was also prevalent - order

Later in life it's been an issue and I've worked on the compulsive stuff but still a work in progress with mentally trying to order things and what I have to do

I'm noticing lately that I'm getting more obsessive around order again and checking - and checking in my mind things in the future -
It seems the premise is 'if I get things perfect everything will be ok '
I seem to have a great fear of 'things going wrong and getting into trouble '
I want everything to be perfect - perfect me perfect you perfect world - I want to know everything be everything and be perfectly perfect -

Oh the madness of it

I know underlyingly its fear - and I know where it stems from - but changing it - now that's a different story -

How does it get changed ? Anyone have any success or is it a problem for you ?

It's an odd thing because it's not me yet it is ---

Mindfulness does help - and learning to tolerate the feelings of uncomfortableness of non perfection

[Phoenix]

Hello!

Just to understand it more... what elements of it feel the most frustrating to you? Just the overall frustration of feeling compelled? Or certain compulsions (like aligning things or checking things) or bigger picture compulsions like being a workaholic due to perfection, etc.

And also - what is the feeling when you don't do the compulsion that you have to tolerate? Discomfort? Anxiety? Have you every in the moment asked why it bothers you or it's a physical feeling?

Feel free not to answer these! Sometimes expanding can help someone.

I definitely suffer from perfectionism and compulsions/compulsive thoughts/etc. sometimes they even seem to be weird superstitions... that being said - the sillier ones of them (aligning items, spacing, symmetry, preferences for certain numbers, superstitions, etc.) don't really impact my quality of life or get in the way of things or cause me embarrassment so I don't mind them. My compulsive harsh obsessive thoughts are a bigger problem for me and - i'm out of work now because of health... as a result of this undoubtedly... - but my being a perfectionistic workaholic is a problem. (Also my perfectionism is hard on my husband because I project it onto him too... luckily he's pretty perfectionistic too so we survive).

Not sure if any of that helps!

[woodsgnome]

Oh, yeah ; perfectionism has been a huge part of my life's puzzle. Or, I hope, was; as I'm trying to learn to accept that it's not only alright to be imperfect, but it's "perfect" to be so.  A perfect paradox (sorry, couldn't resist)!


It's natural to figure that by being perfect we'll be safe. Only problem with that was the results never quite arrived per the expectations. Then the failure to be perfect created even more anxiety. So maybe it's best (perfect) to always try for the best; while realizing that one can stumble, but still find a way?  A better way we have yet to discover. So perfectionism is more like a moving target, perhaps; not a sure destination. Yet still worth aiming for, based on what we've found out about life, about ourselves.

Or, as Alan Watts said once, "One is a great deal less anxious if one feels perfectly free to be anxious, and the same may be said of guilt." Probably that could be said about seeking perfectionism, as well. We're free to want it and it's okay. 

Boatsetsailrose said: "It seems the premise is if I get things perfect everything will be ok." But maybe it already IS perfect; it's good to anticipate a future, but now is as perfect as life will be until then. It takes a lot of self-trust to wander into this new way, though; we're so used to all in life that went awry. And we have to trust in maybes. But, as Watts said above, it also allows us to be "perfectly free." I like the sound of that. 

[arpy1]

It's natural to figure that by being perfect we'll be safe.

yep. if i don't get it right, i am in danger, someone will hurt me in some way. 

trouble is that when i did my best to be perfect and get it all right, it didn't make me safe. it made me less safe.

now that i have failed to be perfect and got nothing (in some people's judgment at least) right, i am no more or less safe than i ever was...

i think wsg has hit the nail on the head. getting it exactly right for those around us equates with not being in danger of something bad happening to us...  it's a survival technique that served us well up to a point. but it has become a prison to us.

the safety i have now, such as it is, is down to the fact that i removed myself from all the relationships where i was getting damaged in some way.  not so much to do with how perfect i am, more to do with how dangerous they were to health.

that's a really helpful insight, woodsgnome, thank you.

[Rainydaze]

I procrastinate due to perfectionism. I don't want to start something for fear of getting it wrong so I hide instead. When I do have to do something for someone else, for instance at work, I check my work a million times before submitting it. If I make a mistake my first reaction is to feel like the world is ending...it's still always an eye opener when in response people are kind and I don't get shouted at!

It's natural to figure that by being perfect we'll be safe.

i think wsg has hit the nail on the head. getting it exactly right for those around us equates with not being in danger of something bad happening to us...  it's a survival technique that served us well up to a point. but it has become a prison to us.

the safety i have now, such as it is, is down to the fact that i removed myself from all the relationships where i was getting damaged in some way.  not so much to do with how perfect i am, more to do with how dangerous they were to health.

Crazy making, isn't it? To survive growing up you have to keep your tormentor on side, whereas as an adult it's safer to get away from them.

[Boatsetsailrose]

Yes something about aiming for it but accepting when it isn't
That resonates for me -

I'll try and be productive and accept the feelings when I'm not

My best is good enough

Play is important too ! Tonight I go to Ariel hoop and swing upside down

[tired]

I'm like that with conversations with people. If just one tiny part of a conversation doesn't flow exactly right I get depressed immediately and I have to cope with something like a nap or food.

[tired]

I have found that lately I let myself indulge in making things perfect and that helps actually. I think when I was growing up so little was expected of me and I was mocked for even trying so what i called perfectionism maybe was more like feeling stupid because I'm such an underachiever .

[Dutch Uncle]

i called perfectionism maybe was more like feeling stupid because I'm such an underachiever.

This resonates strongly with me.
I consider myself a perfectionist and underachiever as well.
In fact, I have "Stop underachieving" written on a blackboard in my 'study'. 
Above it I have written "Learned Helplessness".

I have an idea the two are linked in my case.
Very critical parents: I couldn't and can't do anything 'right'. There's always something not right. Bleh.

I'm trying to teach myself that what I do is "good enough", at times "pretty good!" even.
And at times there's an "Oops..."
Oh well.
(The latter doesn't sit very well with my Inner Critic though.  )

[tired]

i was thinking today about posting something about this.  i think my mood depends on my functioning and whether or not  i did something perfectly.  some days if i work hard, which is not a bad thing to do of course, and i get a lot done and the house looks good and i'm not super bloated and i am feeling like i fixed whatever was broken in my life, i feel really happy. like i somehow got lucky and now here i am with a clean kitchen or whatever else i did.  then maybe i get busy one day like today and i decide to make ten thousand christmas cookies with sparkly icing and the kitchen is a mess and i eat a few cookies and get bloated and also this morning i feel like maybe i interrupted someone when they were talking, and i forgot to message someone, and i have a bunch of laundry piled on my bed.  and i have a vague feeling of depression. i'm a disappointment.  i can't even manage to get through one day and feel caught up.  when will i get caught up.  i clean one part of the house and then the moment i feel like i'm getting somewhere i'm faced with some other crap i've neglected.  maybe this is what happens when years or decades of life go down the drain and you're not just a week behind you're a lifetime behind.

[Sesame]

Yes, I am quite the perfectionist. I also end up procrastinating to avoid making things that are less than perfect. I make lists of everything I need to do, I'm highly organised. I set out exactly what I will wear the next day every evening. I have a specific order of things I do when getting ready in the morning and I can get easily flustered if I have to rearrange that. I get very stressed when others make last-minute changes to plans or when things are random and done spontaneously as opposed to organised beforehand.

I've found going ahead and trying little changes in my routine and going out of my comfort zone every now and again helped me become more flexible. Don't do it at a high-stress time... e.g. Don't change the way you would do things just before rushing to the airport to catch an 8-hour flight. Do it at the weekend when there's no rush to get out the door and if you forget anything because of deviating from your usual routine, it's not as big of an impact. I slowly realised it is all right to let go and make mistakes.

[dischorde]

 

I procrastinate constantly even though I'm well aware of why I'm doing it. I'm petrified of making a mistake, and probably the worst part of it is that even if I don't get shouted at for being stupid - I still think people think I'm stupid for it which makes me mortified nonetheless. The self-sabotage-so-I-have-an-excuse, see-you-can't-use-that-to-prove-I'm-stupid method.

And then I shame myself for being so stupid to sabotage (and be imperfect) in the first place.

I too was never good enough as a child, and I was told that I was an IDIOT because if I was smart, I would have magically known or done everything I was supposed to do. I somehow internalized this to mean if I wasn't STUPID, I would be PERFECT.

Weirdly enough this has made me mostly an over-achiever (Well, to everyone except for me. *I* am mortified I ruined my gpa by procrastinating senior year so much it dropped by  .09 . Now people will round down and say I got a "3.8" instead of a "3.89" when I had a "3.98", which means essentially I dropped my gpa by twice as much because the first number is all anyone will notice. Yes, I actually care this much about .09 on my GPA and I don't even have any reason for people to be care what my GPA even WAS right now <--- perfectionism everybody!!).

Here's a real perfectionistic doozy I've been dealing with recently:
I feel that "good enough" (read smart/perfect) people only try if they already are certain they will succeed - only stupid people try if there is a chance they will fail because they are so stupid, they think they can actually succeed (where obviously if they were smart they would know they would fail and wouldn't try!). So, if I try and fail, its not that I'm a failure - its that I am clearly an IDIOT because I tried.

Wondering if anyone else has felt this way and have any suggestions for how to convince myself to "try anyway"?

I logically know that the above thought is totally batty and truly successful people have failed constantly and don't consider failure a useful tool. But my inner critic doesn't care.

[Pieces]

Compulsive thinking for me has always been about venting fear/anxiety, letting some of it out. Or at least , that's how I experienced it. But venting it isn't letting go. It's something that very early on became a way of not dealing with what I was feeling, which in the past was something I needed. It's thinking feeling away, dissociating from them by giving all the attention to thoughts. It's the fear of feeling. Knowing that makes reversing that possible; direct attention at the feeling and getting real close with them. Scary as * at first, I won't lie.

Of course, for a child that feels (deeply) negatively about himself the fantasy of perfectionism (the fantasy of never getting a negative comment/rejection again) is a beautiful dream. I can't recount the number of days (weeks?) I spent (day)dreaming about having a perfect body and everyone liking or even admiring me. It was pretending that then I would never have to feel down about myself anymore. Letting go of that fantasy and accepting that as an adult the only one that can make me feel down about myself is me wasn't easy.

[Dutch Uncle]

Your probably quite right, Pieces. Yet, I'm not at that place yet. Far from it. But I have the feeling that by finally venting, expressing my fear/anxiety I am removing the barriers that keep me from 'feeling'. It's a phase I guess.

accepting that as an adult the only one that can make me feel down about myself is me wasn't easy.

But what about the people who are putting me down? There's plenty of them around on this globe. I do agree though that I have the power to 'not feel down about myself', but when loads of pressure is piled up on me, by people putting me down, is a tough struggle.

And so I feel that in this stage my focus on removing, distancing me from those who put, pull and keep me down is a good focus. And in order to get there I need my venting of fear/anxiety: preferably at those who do put me down, at the moment they do it. Well, certainly then, when I still run into those who a have kept at bay.

This is a great thread by the way.

[Pieces]

Your probably quite right, Pieces. Yet, I'm not at that place yet. Far from it. But I have the feeling that by finally venting, expressing my fear/anxiety I am removing the barriers that keep me from 'feeling'. It's a phase I guess.

Sounds good Each step, each phase is important, even (or especially) the tough/scary ones, all though saying things like that is always a lot easier when you've worked through them. Even knowing that it's a two step forward, one step back process I always find staying positive during the one step back part very hard, but recognizing the inner critic part there does help a  lot (You see? It'll never work, you'll never be okay, you'll be miserable forever, because that's all your worth!)

But what about the people who are putting me down? There's plenty of them around on this globe. I do agree though that I have the power to 'not feel down about myself', but when loads of pressure is piled up on me, by people putting me down, is a tough struggle.

My honest answer? People putting you down can only be a problem/painful when their being negative about your resonates with your being negative about you. Even more honest answer? You probably wouldn't experience it as being put down if you weren't busy putting you down. If you weren't busy putting you down you would see their behavior for what it is; it's about themselves. Same way that their experience of you is about them. It's a projection of how they see themselves directed at you. It's not even them being negative about you, it's them being negative. Period. That they direct it at you isn't what it's about.

I don't in any way mean to say you're doing something wrong, because you're absolutely are not, what I mean to say is that when experiencing something like this is an opportunity to ask yourself ''what thought am I believing about myself that makes me experience this this way?''. It's a way to further get clear where you're at in how you view yourself, and how you treat yourself based on that. Now that's extremely though to do when the hurt has been hit and you're properly feeling down. It's probably the last thing you feel like doing at a moment like that. But maybe a while after.

And so I feel that in this stage my focus on removing, distancing me from those who put, pull and keep me down is a good focus. And in order to get there I need my venting of fear/anxiety: preferably at those who do put me down, at the moment they do it. Well, certainly then, when I still run into those who a have kept at bay.

I have found that to be a great focus, and one I needed to create a space safe enough to work on myself. At one point I just couldn't deal with people anymore, in any way. I couldn't face anyone, even with all the medication. How to explain something like that to anyone? When the thought of being seen and/or having to talk to anyone 'simply' debilitates you? I think I would have the same success if I tried to explain someone that one time sneezing gave me a three day anxiety episode.

This is a great thread by the way.

Sure is!