Autism (incl. Asperger's) in a parent **possible triggers on autism**

[Dutch Uncle]

As I will visit my (undiagnosed) Asperger's dad today I'm reading up on it.
And I found this link in my bookmarks. I hadn't read it before, but it strikes me that his article addresses a cPTSD related 'condition' in partners and children of an Asperger's/autistic parent.

The introduction of the article:

Neurotypical spouses and children of adults with Asperger syndrome (AS) and Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) risk being affected by Ongoing Traumatic Relationship Syndrome (OTRS).

What is OTRS?

OTRS is a trauma-based syndrome, which can affect people over a long period when they are subjected to repeated psychological traumatic impacts within a close relationship.

As I know I'm not alone in struggling with the possibility of an Asperger's dad*, I thought I'd share. In times to come even more cPTSD-ers might join the site with a similar background in their FOO. Or FOC for that matter.
And I should probably add that Autism/Asperger's is not a specific male trait, and quite a few psychologists suspect it is under-diagnosed in females. So mothers can be Asperger's too.
*) Well, I'm not so much struggling with the possibility, but with his erratic behavior.    Whatever the cause, the effects on me stay the same. It does help me though to read up on what I know about Asperger's, as I can be better prepared what to expect, and am better prepared what not to do, and better prepared what to do. For my own benefit, and as a by-catch also his, as we both don't get so 'worked up'.
A pro-active trigger-avoidance program(ming), is the aim for me doing this.


http://www.aspergerpartner.com/the-burden-on-nt-spouses-and-children-otrs.html
Another article that mentions OTRS: Patients not believed about the difficulty of their lives
Oh dear, this really has hit a nerve with me:

The confusing, differing maturity levels for the NT, in a unique Post Traumatic Relationship Syndrome which Karen Rodman of FAAAS has termed Ongoing Traumatic Relationship Syndrome. (OTRS).

Effects of Differing Neuro/Developmental Levels on Neurotypical/Autism Spectrum Adult Relationships


Related articles (not specifically cPTSD related but still valuable IMHO for our recovery)
http://www.aspergerpartner.com/children-of-a-parent-with-asd-aspergers-syndrome-2.html

This one mentions Alzheimer and Autism, and wether or not the two are somehow related. 
http://www.aspergerpartner.com/does-aspergers-asd-get-worse-with-age.html

Another article I found that deals with the (underreported/underresearched) phenomenon of being raised by an Asperger's parent:
http://www.theneurotypical.com/parents-with-aspergers.html

A video by SpartanLifeCoach (a.k.a. Richard Grannon) on asperger vs narcissism.

edit: added resources.

[arpy1]

much support as you visit your dad, D/U  keep us posted how it goes?

[stacey]

I have thought and read about Aspergers for the last eight years and with my partner being a suspected Aspie i feel like I've gained some insight into just how hard relationships are for people with Aspergers. They are routinely put down for things which are really important or for symptoms that can be debilitating.  My partner thinks he has PTSD as well, and I wouldn't be surprised. I think life for Aspies is often quite hellish.

[Dutch Uncle]

My partner thinks he has PTSD as well, and I wouldn't be surprised. I think life for Aspies is often quite hellish.

Does that mean he thinks he's Asperger's, and PTSD as well?
And yes, I do think life for Asperger's can be quite hellish as well. As is attested by the comments on their (self-help) forums just like this is for us cPTSD-ers.
I do think my father struggles quite a lot.

[breakingfree]

Thanks for sending me here Dutch Uncle. I am very familiar with OTRS and the effects of an Non-Aspie and Aspie pairing. After my ex confirmed his condition to me: he gloated that he "knew all along". I decayed over many years trying to bounce back from constant critique and world view he had that everyone except him is stupid and why would I need to be emotional??? Can't I be more rational? That is the most generalized way to put how life was like that. My ex gaslighted me, used overt and covert methods to deconstruct my self worth, was very rigid in what was "acceptable" and not "acceptable" in our household, never hugged our child unless asked to, etc.... I went to an autism society therapist who works with non-aspie family members and he refused such help as they tend to be incapable of introspection and understanding of their words/behaviors on "others". Hence: that is what autism is. An explicitly clear sight of what they perceive: not what others perceive. They cannot empathize.

Understanding that you have PTSD requires no "mind blindness" and the ability to self reflect and understand "others" emotions. I don't think it is possible for them to have PTSD because they can't process, introspectively: on that level.

So, this is not to say they are not brilliant high IQ minds: they are. For limited topics/subjects they find a "special interest' in.

Interpersonally? It is quiet detrimental to be the non-aspie partner waiting, trying, re-trying, to emotionally connect, altering your approach, rethinking who you are, being over analyzed and constantly critiqued: because the lack of connection, real true : "I can imagine your feelings" intimacy is not possible with an Aspie. I tend to think Aspies should date other Aspies or at the bare minimum: not hide the autism from a non-autistic partner.

I feel masterfully exploited and used by my ex Asperger's partner. Like a game piece or piece of luggage. My feelings never mattered because they were not understood and definitely invalidated.

If you did not know talking to him that he was Aspergers: you would absolutely feel like he was rude selfish and narcistic. That is what led me to finally getting answers: he fit all the criteria of NPD and I thought: why can't I have a straightforward conversation with him? Why do we go in circles and he just doesn't understand me, I try so hard? I internalized ALL of our deficiencies as being MY INABILITY to "get it right" to or to "be worthy".

Ugh, I don't want to go on too much more about it....I do understand it sadly, in great detail. I am glad to have escaped, but it did (the divorce) re-ignite in me so much trauma from loss (my sibling died young) and a lifetime of struggling with him. I never felt grounded, worthy, safe, calm, joy, etc....it was *.

It's a way different thing if someone is told about autism and can make a choice. I was not and on top of that he was deeply, scarily, manipulative and exploitative.

So I look around me and I think....I know for a fact I never experienced real affection and intimacy in my life. Just emotional torture. How does one try again? Or start to believe it can be "ok". I know how to not date anyone like him in the future, trust me. But, I was so violated by him keeping his autism from me, never telling me. It's hard to reconcile the cruelty of what he did to me and my cPTSD is born from OTRS (and tragic loss, BPD FOO, etc...) I feel like a freak not because I did anything wrong but because I mistakenly believed he was something he was not. And it never bothered him one bit to do that to me still doesn't.

How do I "try" dating if I have never ever been in a "real" relationship ever? And I cope with cPTSD.

[tesscaline]

I went to an autism society therapist who works with non-aspie family members and he refused such help as they tend to be incapable of introspection and understanding of their words/behaviors on "others". Hence: that is what autism is. An explicitly clear sight of what they perceive: not what others perceive. They cannot empathize.

Understanding that you have PTSD requires no "mind blindness" and the ability to self reflect and understand "others" emotions. I don't think it is possible for them to have PTSD because they can't process, introspectively: on that level.

I have to say, as someone who registers on the autism spectrum, that all of that is quite false, to an insulting degree. If you were told this by a counselor of some sort, seek out a different one, as that one is a quack.

If anything, those who are non-neurotypical empathize too greatly with the outside world. We feel others' emotions as if they were our own, because we lack the "filters" a neurotypical person has. This causes overstimulation, which can lead to extreme withdrawal from contact, or lashing out. Because interactions are painful.

The "bad behavior" comes from an inability to interface with people, and an inability to "read" body language the same way a neurotypical person would.

These symptoms vary in intensity, and lumping all autistic spectrum persons into this depiction of a malignant narcissist is completely inappropriate.

We feel. We empathize. We introspect. Sometimes even more than neurotypical persons. We have self awareness, and self control.  We're not psychopaths.

I understand you have a lot of anger over your situation. But please, don't scapegoat all non-neurotypical persons.

[Dutch Uncle]

If anything, those who are non-neurotypical empathize too greatly with the outside world. We feel others' emotions as if they were our own, because we lack the "filters" a neurotypical person has. This causes overstimulation, which can lead to extreme withdrawal from contact, or lashing out. Because interactions are painful.

The "bad behavior" comes from an inability to interface with people, and an inability to "read" body language the same way a neurotypical person would.

These symptoms vary in intensity, and lumping all autistic spectrum persons into this depiction of a malignant narcissist is completely inappropriate.

We feel. We empathize. We introspect. Sometimes even more than neurotypical persons. We have self awareness, and self control.  We're not psychopaths.

Thanks for sharing that, tesscaline.
I do recognize my father in that. He is empathic, but I also recognize the withdrawal and the lashing out.
Thanks for your perspective, it's very valuable to me.

[tesscaline]

Dutch Uncle --

You're very welcome.  Non-neurotypical persons are highly misunderstood, and I'm happy to try and provide any insight I can.

[Dutch Uncle]

@ breakingfree:

Yesterday I bumped into a 20 minute video that describes pretty well my experiences with my (undiagnosed) Asperger's dad. And since I started working, interacting with him on the basis of my suspicion, it has become even more 'true'.
asperger vs narcissism
I also suspect my TherapistMom is a "cluster B" Personality Disordered women (Histrionic seems to be the best 'fit') and what the SpartanLifeCoach says here about Narcissism sums up pretty well the difference between dad and 'mom'.

I do not want to degrade your experiences with your husband, as it's clear it has had a traumatic impact on you and you fell victim of his behavior that has caused you great and longstanding pain.
Whether your husband was/is a NPD or Asperger's or other on the Autistic Spectrum I obviously cannot tell, and for what you have experienced and suffered from it possibly doesn't even matter that much. You suffer from OTRS and/or cPTSD, by your own account, and that's the really hard thing. 

Perhaps the video will ring a bell with you, and maybe it will help you on your path to recovery.
Perhaps it's triggering though and you don't want to have none of it.
I thought it was a worthwhile resource to post in any case, also for others who might be in a situation like us: having (had) a relationship with somebody on the Autism Spectrum.

to you, again.

[redmum]

Hi there, I've popped over from a thread I started as this one is specifically ASD related.

I'm surrounded by people with ASD and always have been (mum, siblings, now children, and ex husband). Empathy is real and very overwhelming for people with ASD from what I have seen, in accordance with tesscaline. For me the problem has always been that the empathy was always for other people. For my mum it is for people at work, or people she isn't very close with. For my ex-husband it was always clients or people at work. I think the safe distance allowed them to express the empathy more. I don't really know for sure, but I think I was just too close, too emotional, and too random for them to even try to understand (as it is too painful?). They also needed downtime at home, time to stop pretending to be normal. From my side though, it looked like my problems or feelings were never good enough, valid, or worth noticing. If I had known all along that they had ASD (or what that even was) then things would have been different.

The damage done by marrying someone with ASD was that it reinforced all the messages from my childhood - don't talk, be quiet, stop making a fuss, don't change your mind, don't go shopping without lists, don't have friends, certainly not in our house, and stop talking, and shh.....

Having my own son with ASD changes everything. I get to be the understanding one, and I get to teach him how to understand people, and how to SHOW that he sees them, understands, and cares. He always notices, but he just doesn't react in the way NTs do. So I teach him, step by step, how to react and talk and just be around people when they are upset or hurt. Or how what he does can hurt people. He's only 8, but he is such a sensitive guy, and is very thoughtful (wow) especially when someone is hurting. Thank goodness for diagnosis. He also knows he has ASD, and will be able to tell and guide a future partner - and not end up here like us. So regardless of my own issues, I feel like it stops here, with my generation. After the damage I can see coming from my grandma, to my mother, to my siblings, that is a good thing. There is also a ripple effect, my mum is finally seeing herself a little more clearly, and her own mother (who is 90!) and brother.

I'll have to watch the video later (kids about!) but I'm just fascinated that other people relate and to have this all be 'real' finally.
I've been found by the kids so better go, my son is fascinated by the animated emoticons.

[Dutch Uncle]

In case anybody is interested in participation in research:
Have you been raised by a primary caregiver with Asperger's Disorder?
-Invitation for participating in research

As I type this, participants are still welcome.
Specific info on eligibility and the selection process in the link.