Slow Go

[selfcompassion]

It is different because of the things I practice. I have experienced flashback states in the past that lasted for months. I know flashbacks like I know the back of my hand. The way out of them is very counterintuitive. My brain is not different enough from yours for my flashback experiences to be that different from yours. We are different people, but our brains are wired in the same manner, and we experience the aftermath of trauma in much the same way.

Mindfulness is not something you can figure out in a few days of contemplation -- it can take months for you to begin to notice big changes in the way you handle those recordings that loop through your brain, and infect your mind. But luckily for us humans, our brains are sitting there -- perched on our shoulders -- ready to go to work for us in cleaning up trauma hot-spots, and replacing them with more useful neural nets. If we quit going to those trauma places -- in our mind -- the brain will allow those places to die-away, and will focus on keeping the areas that receive the most use alive. Mindfulness allows the hot-spots to die away and loose their power.

Maybe it doesn't make sense if you are hearing it for the first time. Trauma -- in the brain -- is stored memory; memories attached to traumatic events, and interconnected throughout the brain. Complex trauma is not much more than a bunch of neural networks in the brain. Letting those disruptive neural-nets atrophy, and loose their connections to the emotional and memory centers of the brain, will greatly lessen the impact, or even formation of flashbacks.

These things may not make sense, if you have never pondered them. We, as trauma survivors, need to stop self-harming. Keeping those traumatized neural hot-spots alive, by constantly practicing fear, shame, rage/anger over injustice, hypervigilance -- all of it, will keep you mentally mired in flashbacks.

I say these things because they work for me, and millions of others. I know it is counter to what you may have been thinking, but give it, and your brain a chance. Your brain will work with you when you are ready.

Let me know if I can help. 

[bheart]

SC,
Thank you for sharing this.  I hope you don't mind questions and if my questions sound naive, I apologize.  I haven't been in therapy very long and it feels like my emotions are a jumbled rats nest that I had been disconnected from for a very long time.  I believe you are referring to the internal messages about oneself and not about others? If so, my internal messages are mostly from others actions toward me (starting with an attachment disorder developed as an infant and throughout life vs being told that I am this or I am that).  I often use the saying 'actions speak louder then words' and looking at my past this phrase has been enforced in a new way with the question of who am I really?  Those unspoken messages have shaped my identity and  feel like 'me'.  I believe I am one of those highly sensitive that takes everything to heart.  It seems like this mindfulness would work in the same way, to ignore those thoughts, whether they were spoken or unspoken msgs?

And if I am  thinking about those in my life who have harmed me (their actions against me), I assume those messages i would not want to ignore to be better able to determine who to distance myself from?
Thanks again for sharing.  I will try anything that may help me.

       

[schrödinger's cat]

I practice mindfulness regularly, and meditate nearly every day. That's how I know meditation and mindfulness do not work well during the kind of EFs I personally am getting right now. Which is why I asked how precisely you're going about this. Details, please. What precise method, at what time do you practice it, how did you start out (i.e. during a lull in your CPTSD symptoms or when the going was tough), did you adapt your method or not? What you wrote was vague. You posited a theory without providing details. And here again you're re-phrasing your theory without providing details.

These things may not make sense, if you have never pondered them. We, as trauma survivors, need to stop self-harming. Keeping those traumatized neural hot-spots alive, by constantly practicing fear, shame, rage/anger over injustice, hypervigilance -- all of it, will keep you mentally mired in flashbacks.

You're positing yourself as the authority, and you appear to assume I'm new to all this and require that you gently tell me that I "need to stop self-harming". This is not acceptable.

[Kizzie]

Just a reminder here that  we all may have a different idea as to what is "best" for recovery but they are just that, opinions to be explored in a respectful, tolerant and open manner. None of us have all the answers and we are here together to explore rather than lay out a path for anyone other than ourselves. So, please employ "I " rather than "You" sentences. I have found that ........ ". Or  "In my experience ......" Or "I believe that ....."

For my part, after a very long journey getting to this current place in my life, I believe that I need to remember the trauma and be angry and grieve in order to integrate it.  The trauma is part of me, it has made me who I am so for me it is important to be whole; that is, trauma defueled but included. I have done a lot of reading about recovery and the clinical/academic articles by traumatologists talk about the need to remember and work through trauma in order to integrate.  IMO while mindfulness has some merit, like CBT alone it does not have the capacity to foster integration while relational therapy does -- to my mind anyway.

[globetrotter]

At what point is it mindfulness and when is it denial and repressing feelings?
Just curious...
I've practiced mindful meditation, but I also don't think it's as simple as "quit feeling what you're feeling".

[Kizzie]

At what point is it mindfulness and when is it denial and repressing feelings?
Just curious... I've practiced mindful meditation, but I also don't think it's as simple as "quit feeling what you're feeling".

Good question GT.  A pdoc I saw once (never went back) recommended the work of Byron Katie which is like mindfulness and CBT on steroids and I had the worst reaction to it.  It felt like she was saying you're only in pain because of what you think about your abuse AND you colluded in letting your parents abuse you AND just let it go.   

Nope.  If I just let it go part of me will be gone (or will remain repressed I'm not sure which), but if I look at the abuse and work through it, it will become a part of me -- like it should have long ago when it happened, but no-one was there to help.  My IC gets really upset when she thinks she is hearing someone tell her that she should just be forgotten or shoved back in her box which may be a misrepresentation of mindfulness and CBT, but that's how she hears it. Right now I often can't see and feel with clarity and reason because of the residual goo I carry with me and IMO need to work through in order to to restart the developmental process that was arrested in childhood, those parts of me that feel childlike because in fact they are stuck at a younger age.

At some point I think I will become mindful of my past and how it influences the present rather than be driven by it, and I will be able to deal with the present in a more mindful way (calmer, less reactive to feelings and thoughts) if that makes sense.

[globetrotter]

Perhaps I'm confusing mindfulness w mindful meditation.
I.have heard of Katie but haven't read her.
I do occassionally meditate and the clarity afterwards is amazing especially if I practice in the wilderness.
Science has nothing but good things to say about mindful meditation and my therapist advocates.it and we have practiced during sessions.
However.
We still.need.to.deal.with the demons that lurk. Buddhism.encourages us to " let it go"(. If it were that easy wouldn't.we all be cured by now?
So mindful meditation plus other therapies for 500, Alex...

[schrödinger's cat]

When I first left home (and my PTSD got better straight away), I had moments of mindfulness almost at once. Those happened completely by itself. Just silly, small things, like peeling a potato under the sink and suddenly realizing how extraordinary and beautiful this is, that brown unsightly skin and then that gorgeous yellow underneath. Or taking a walk through an unfamiliar town, and really seeing things properly - people, buildings, things - and soaking up the athmosphere. Those times were brilliant. They were very peaceful, and I felt totally in control, but in a light and relaxed way that kept the focus on my surroundings and let me take everything in. It was WOW. If that's mindfulness, then it's a good thing. Those memories are still so vivid, they're like places I can revisit at any time.

However, reading up on mindfulness was less wow, for the same reasons Kizzie mentioned. Also, my FOO is very big on how to do things "properly", which is another can of worms. I'll see later on if I can find something ideology-free on mindfulness.

[schrödinger's cat]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/brainstorm/200812/back-the-present-how-live-in-the-moment --- series of things we can do to be mindful. The methods look easily adaptable. (I personally can't yet be fully at ease with this: "Make it new. When you're performing music, giving a presentation, or even just recounting a favorite story, try to make it new in subtle ways, delivering it in a way you've never done before." But I could take any ordinary task and try making it new in some way. Taking a different route when I'm walking to the shops for example.

Taken from another text:

Some great new data collected from users of the Lift goal-tracking app* shows that most beginner meditators started with 3-5 minutes. Even three minutes can feel like a darn long time when you first start meditating, so you could even start smaller. For example, paying attention to the sensations of taking 3 breaths.

Since walking helps people concentrate and reduces distractibility, a meditation that involves walking can be a great place to start.

Fellow PT blogger Dr Kelly McGonigal suggests a 10 minute walking meditation involving 1 minute of paying attention to each of (1) the feeling of your body walking, (2) the feeling of your breath, (3) the sensations of air or wind on your skin, (4) what you can hear, and (5) what you can see.

Follow this with 5 minutes of open awareness where you allow anything you can observe/sense to rise up into your awareness. Don't go looking for things to hear, see, feel etc. Just let whatever rises up into your awareness to do that and be naturally replaced by something else whenever that happens.

During the open awareness portion, if your attention drifts to past, future or evaluative thoughts, briefly go back to one of the points of focus to stabilize your attention.

You can adapt these instructions however you want. Make your practice your own. You're in charge! For example, do a walking meditation in which you focus on one of the above points of focus for 3 minutes and then do 3 minutes of open awareness.

(All this taken from: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-practice/201303/5-meditation-tips-beginners)


An example of a ten-minute meditation exercise (from http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/06/03/new-to-mindfulness-how-to-get-started/):

    Choose a time when you have 10 minutes to yourself and find a quiet place to sit comfortably.  Whether you are at your desk at work or in your home, clear the space of obvious distractions.  Put away phones, email and other distractors.  If setting a timer would help you stay focused, rather than worried about how much time you have, then set a timer.
    Acknowledge any thoughts or judgments you have about starting your mindfulness practice.  You may be uncomfortable, skeptical or excited.  Our minds are constantly thinking, so you may want to notice whether you are caught up in thoughts as you get ready for your practice.  If this is the case, simply acknowledge thoughts and emotions that come into your awareness and then refocus on getting settled and comfortable.
    Once settled and comfortable, you can choose to close you're eyes or keep your gaze focused in one spot in front of you.  Take a few deep breaths and then begin by bringing your attention to your breath, as you breath in.  Notice the tip of the nose as your breath enters your body.  Continue to breathe normally, following your inhalations as your breath flows down into your lungs.  Notice your lungs expand as your breath fills them and then notice them begin to contract during your exhalations.  There is no need to change your breathing.  Simply notice it as it flows in and out of your body.
    Follow your exhalations, with your awareness, as they flow out of your body.  Notice your breath flowing from the lungs, up through airways and out your nose again.
    Continuing following your breath in this manner for 10 minutes.  The first few times you practice, you may find that much of your time is spent lost in thought, rather than focused on your breath.
    The practice of mindfulness is about beginning to notice these internal distractions and mind wanderings and, once noticed, to bring your focus back.  You may lose focus and bring your attention back many, many times over the course of several minutes.  Don't worry, this is part of the practice.

I've also read someplace that you'll profit from sitting upright, with your back straight (not tense though) rather than hunched. I personally find it easier to breathe deeply that way.

A method for being mindful about our emotions (...which might or might not work for EFs, at least not for particularly strong or stubborn ones):

Using Mindfulness to Cope with Difficult Emotions

We all have bad days; some are worse than others. When emotions become overwhelming, you can use this RAIN formula to help manage your feelings in a mindful way:

    R – Recognise the emotion you're feeling. Name the emotion in your mind if you can.

    A – Accept the experience you're having. Yes you probably don't like the feeling, but the reality is the emotion is here at the moment.

    I – Investigate. Become curious about your experience. Where do you feel the emotion in your body? What kind of thoughts are going through your mind?

    N – Non-identification. See the emotion as a passing event rather than who you actually are, just as different images are reflected in a mirror but are not the mirror. Different emotions arise and pass in you, but are not you, yourself. The most powerful step is non-identification. Have the attitude 'anger is arising and will soon pass away' or 'sadness is coming up in me, and at some point will dissolve'.

Sometimes you just need to do one step, whereas at other times you may want to work through the whole formula. Practise using the formula whenever you can, so when things become challenging for you, you'll find it easier to use.

(from http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/mindfulness-for-dummies-cheat-sheet-uk-edition.html)

From the same source:

Learning about True Mindfulness

Mindfulness is more than a set of techniques to practice. Mindfulness is about questioning your identity and relationship to the world around you. By understanding who you are at a deeper level, you are less affected by negative emotions, thoughts or physical sensations – you're tackling the root of the problem. For these reasons, it's worth spending some time and effort to find out for yourself who you truly are. Try this:

    Notice that your thoughts come and go. You are aware of your thoughts. You are that which is aware of thoughts – not the thoughts themselves.

    Notice that your emotions come and go too. You are aware of the emotion rather than being the emotion itself. You are the observer of the emotion.

    Observe that although your attention moves from one thing to another, your sense of being aware is always present. You're always aware of something. Awareness is always on, and completely effortless. You are that awareness itself.

    Reflect on the statement: 'I cannot be that which I observe'. Just as your eye is not the book, because the eye is observing the book, so you are not your thoughts, emotions, sensations, perceptions because you are observing them. You are the witness of them. As the witness you are completely free of them.

    Be as you are. You cannot become yourself, for you already are yourself! So, just relax and be as you are – effortless awareness. Awareness is your natural state – what you always have been and always will be.

    One of the most famous sages of the 20th Century, Nisargadatta put is this way: "Discover all that you are not – body, feelings, thoughts, time, space, this or that – nothing, concrete or abstract, which you perceive can be you. The very act of perceiving shows that you are not what you perceive."

Sorry that it's so long. And it's not exhaustive, simply a handful of texts that looked like good places to start.

[Badmemories]

@ selfcompassion, Great Post very thought provoking!

  selfcompassion wrote September 26, 2014, 07:25:09 AM

If we quit going to those trauma places -- in our mind -- the brain will allow those places to die-away, and will focus on keeping the areas that receive the most use alive. Mindfulness allows the hot-spots to die away and loose their power.

bheart wrote September 26, 2014, 08:09:32 AM

If so, my internal messages are mostly from others actions toward me (starting with an attachment disorder developed as an infant and throughout life vs being told that I am this or I am that). I often use the saying 'actions speak louder then words' and looking at my past this phrase has been enforced in a new way with the question of who am I really? Those unspoken messages have shaped my identity and  feel like 'me'.


@ selfcompassion, I agree with MOST of what You are saying but I do not believe that The HOT spots die away unless WE validate ourselves.@bheart This is what is healing YOU! Part of the validation for me is going over the traumas in My life, looking at them in an adult mind, and rethinking what I thought about MYSELF during the original trauma and VALIDATING My traumas, and soothing MYSELF on the tram as, and saying to the inner child, IT'S OK. We will not let that happen again.

I have DENIED the tram as of MY life for too long, and just denying it will not make it go away. DENIAL only prolongs the problem and turns it into garbage in MY HEAD.

dbt handbook Pages 10-12. Validation

Keeping those traumatized neural hot-spots alive, by constantly practicing fear, shame, rage/anger over injustice, hypervigilance -- all of it, will keep you mentally mired in flashbacks.

@ selfcompassion, You are right about this...

The other part of OUR therapy is Learning to do things that make our life better in the here and Now. I have to work on boundaries, 51% rule. "it's not My monkeys, not my circus", It might include MC, NC. or LC, because the traumas come so fast that YOUR mind does not have time to process it. 

Dialectical thinking's purpose is to open up our black and white thinking. Pages 7-10 (link above above) page 7 states...

Being dialectical means:
™ Letting go of self-righteous indignation.
™ Letting go of "black and white", "all or nothing" ways of seeing a
situation.
™ Looking for what is "left out" of your understanding of a situation.
™ Finding a way to validate the other person's point of view.
™ Expanding your way of seeing things.
™ Getting "unstuck" from standoffs and conflicts.
™ Being more flexible and approachable.
™ Avoiding assumptions and blaming.

That helps Us in the here and now. Not blaming others for everything, understanding other peoples viewpoints, validating other peoples views. Other techniques we use also help Us in the here and now, meditation, reading Self-help books, breathing, etc. Also by looking at the INNER CRITIC,who is almost another person in OUR BRAIN. The INNER CRITIC is black and white thinking!

In the handbook above MINDFULNESS is described as Taking Control of YOUR attention and thoughts.

Posted by: selfcompassion
September 25, 2014, 06:13:50 PM

[color=blue]It takes lots of practice, all day, every day, until your mind rewires itself away from those childhood trauma hotspots.
Two big components of mindfulness are awareness, and being alert. Aware of the world around you: being in the moment; and alertness: being aware of the thoughts that are being sent into your aware moments by your brain. You bring the whole emotional experience of reliving childhood trauma down, Quit practicing bad memories, and their accompanying emotional hijackings, anby letting those well trodden neural pathways atrophy from non use. and the flashbacks begin to loose their power. As you practice being aware of yourself in the moment, awareness of the triggered states takes place, because you are alert to any changes in your mental state.[/color]

in My own case Mindfulness has helped me to have more control OVER My brain. If I am Mindful of the moment, the flashbacks have no place at the time when I am busy, or out in public and don't have time to work on the traumas of MY PAST LIFE. That is NOT a ticket to NOT WORK ON THE TRAMAS it is just me controlling the WHEN to work on them.

The thing to remember is that what helps one of Us with CPTSD might NOT work for another... our paths are similar but they are not the same. We are on the same path at different levels.

Right now at the beginning stages of the healing process I need to work on the denial, mindfulness and the the inner child. I need to work on setting limits, speaking up,  I have worked on Validation, and don't have much of an INNER critic.

I have more to comment on the other posts bu I am tired now and must sleep a little bit because My GD will wake-up soon!

[bheart]

SC, Thank you for all of the information and links.  I am going to read them all today.   

I haven't tried meditation or yoga (I have heard that can help also).


BM,  Thank you also for sharing.   Your link to the dbt handbook did not work for me?  I would like to read that also.   

I appreciate that you both took the time to write all of that out.  Thank you.   

[Kizzie]

Vulnerability to safe others takes courage.

I agree Rain, well said.

[Badmemories]

 Sorry I hope this works!

http://www.bipolarsjuk.se/pdf/Handbook%20in%20DBT%20Group.pdf

[bheart]

 

Thank you badmemories!!!

[globetrotter]

I'm going back to this topic again.

Every once in a while, I hit a wall with therapy - a lot more often than I would like to. I should win an award for 'Most Resistance Client'. I was programmed NOT to talk about my feelings, not cry, and sure as * don't like to talk about myself or any of this stuff. I've been going to my therapist for just over two years. I know I am the problem. Sometimes I think since I am 55 years old and have been this way for so long, this is as good as it gets.

Other folks have said I should go to a different therapist if I don't trust her, but I am fairly certain I would hit this wall with *any* therapist because I'm so entrenched in self-protection and closing myself down (or off).  I do trust her (as much as I can), know that she wants to help me, and is a kind person. She promotes herself as an expert in trauma and I have shared many of my memories with her. I believe she is intentionally not pushing me, but I get in these ruts when I wonder why I am spending my time and money going at all when I have such a difficult time opening up. She asks me question after question because often I'll give her a short response. That's my M.O. Blathering on about myself is a dream for me. Every once in a while, I do blather when something dramatic happens, but weekly, not so much.

One thing that gets me  about this strange 'relational experience' is that her life is a mystery. My closest friends consist of those who truly confide in me and tell me their deepest thoughts and secrets. I like their trust and faith in me. It validates our relationship and provides me the ability to share in return. Really, I think my T and I need to go out for a couple of beers. HA. She has had moments where she told me I could ask her anything, but it's not the same as someone sharing. I am not sure I can pole vault over this shield of protection and ever completely open up because I don't even do that beyond a certain point with my S.O.

We have done art therapy. I have taken in things that I have written. There is no easy path.

Does anyone else have this problem or advice??? Sometimes it makes me feel downright hopeless.