February 2016 Topic - Meditaton

[Jdog]

Snailspace-

I looked at the blurb about the book and it sounds like a helpful find.  Thanks for sharing, and I send good wishes to you as you show yourself the compassion that was not shown to you by caregivers. 

Peace-

JDog

[snailspace]

Many thanks Jdog and I wish you the same.

[Kizzie]

I was quite taken aback by the article Dutch posted and have been thinking a lot about it since reading it.  Now that we are working on dissociation in the Book Club I am wondering if for some of us, deeper meditation may be too much because we dissociate and mediating brings the parts into awareness of one another, possibly before we are ready 

I am working with a T on bio- and neuro-feedback and in one appointment he mentioned maybe trying some EMDR.  I had two really bad EMDR sessions a year and a half ago which sent me into three day long major EFs.  My current T suggested I may have gotten into my trauma too deeply and quickly without having been taught how to ground myself.  So perhaps this applies to mediation as well I don't know.

All this is to say that I am good with gentle mediation (like the exercise in the monthly recovery exercise), but am cautious about anything more indepth.  I do see there can be benefits to mediation.  When I did some biofeedback with the T I could see on the screen how consciously breathing more deeply and relaxing affected me (came way down out of the red or anxiety zone into the blue and green or calm and relaxed zones).   But t the same time I wonder if some of us with CPTSD may need to go a bit slower. 

[Jdog]

I was looking at my onscreen icons on my iPad and found the Wildmind Buddhist link.  Included in it are guidelines for several types of meditation, if anyone is interested in reading and/or trying them.  The Lovingkindness type, which is the one I use, is very helpful for many people who wish to cultivate self compassion in addition to compassion for others. 

I understand why it is important for those of us with cptsd to proceed with caution as we explore our inner lives.  So many ingrained patterns which relate to past abuse or at least unhelpful patterns taught by unskillful care givers.  It takes time and courage to unwind those balls of twine.

But if anyone is ready to look into meditation as a way to begin the unwinding (or try a new way of doing so), I send support and encouragement.  You will know if and when it is a good fit.

[I like vanilla]

I have a great deal of trouble with the 'clear your mind, sit and breathe' type of meditation. I find it very triggering for me.

On the other hand, most days, I have an early morning walk that is largely a type of meditation for me. I do not try to 'clear my mind'. Instead, I just let my brain run free flow as I move through the neighbourhood. I do listen to what thoughts are coming up. Those that run like a hamster in the wheel, I try to look at objectively and defuse; usually I discover that these are from my inner critic. I have had people tell me that this does not 'count' as meditation but that really is not my concern. My concern is to do that which works for me so long as it harms no one (and walking through the neighbourhood thinking private thoughts fits that category).

I have also been practising mindfulness which to me seems the opposite of meditation even though people generally argue that to be mindful one 'must' meditate... Meditation, as I have had it explained to me in different contexts, is 'sitting and clearing your mind'. Mindfulness then stands in contrast to it. While practising mindfulness, rather than driving away thoughts, I notice what thoughts I am having. Rather than 'calming myself' (i.e. driving away my feelings) I notice what my feelings are. I then work through or work with whatever the thoughts and feelings are. I have found that, for me, it is more useful to acknowledge my thoughts and feel my feelings than it has been to push them away in the name of having a 'clear mind' and 'centred body'.

I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer, but I have heard in several places that people with CPTSD often have trouble with meditation. I am including the comment that I have difficulty with meditation so that others who might be in the same boat might know that they are not 'weird' or alone. It is a concern for many of us with CPTSD.

[I like vanilla]

I know that, for me, meditation has had very little benefit, if any, and can even make me feel worse if I'm already struggling with anxiety/EF states. Which sucks, because it's such a go-to for treatment programs that I keep having to re-explain that it doesn't work well for me at all, and repeatedly go through it being pressed on me by various people (counsellors, support groups, therapists, doctors, you name it).  People, even professionals in mental health, seem unwilling to entertain the notion that meditation can increase someone's stress/anxiety levels rather than decreasing them.  They take my reluctance as defeatism or "being difficult," rather than me trying to avoid re-traumatizing myself.  And that's frustrating

I understand. I have the same concern  .

I'm often told 'you are holding onto the past, are in denial, and have some ulterior reason for wanting to hang on to the past and the victim role'. NONE of those ideas is true. I just get really triggered by meditation. I am lucky, however. I found a new T about a year ago. He is more interested in listening to me and helping me figure out what works for me than trying to impose some textbook prescription on me. Phew! no more demands that I 'try meditation, it will relax you'.

[snailspace]

Sorry to hear tesscaline and I like vanilla.  Same happened with me with an incompetent therapist/mindfulness teacher.  Because I couldn't come up with feelings on demand the mindful way I was subjected to similar comments - blaming me for not being "open and "willing" etc.  It seems as if throwing mindfulness as the new cure-all into the mix assumes the recipe will work.  I do practice meditation now and again at home, for 10 - 20 mins but alone which is what I can manage.  I'm too hypervigilant to sit in a group with my eyes shut.  I'm glad you have a therapist who respects your needs I like vanilla.  I think that is truly mindful rather than imposing a prescription onto you in a mindless one size fits all approach. 

[no_more_fear]

Now that we are working on dissociation in the Book Club I am wondering if for some of us, deeper meditation may be too much because we dissociate and mediating brings the parts into awareness of one another, possibly before we are ready 

I'd been thinking this myself, Kizzie and I'm very glad you said this as I now think I was right to have reservations. When you say deeper meditation may not be the best thing, do you think that five-minute meditations, or something similar, may be better, then?  That way it would be lighter, as you suggested.

[Kizzie]

 I am good with gentle mediation by which I mean practising breathing and relaxing the body.  My T explained that when we breathe shallowly the lack of oxygen in the bloodstream sends a signal to the brain that we are in a distressing situation and so we go into reaction or poised to react mode.  By learning to breath more deeply, we bring in more oxygen to our bloodstream and change the signal (I.e., Ok, getting enough oxygen, things are good so I can relax). 

In my sessions thus far though he didn't suggest that I try and  my mind or anything, just focus on breathing and watching the screen.  Thinking back I realize that having that screen to watch had something to do with being able to focus on breathing. In the past when I've tried it on my own there was so much chatter going on in my head I couldn't get past it. With the biofeedback I was able to better focus on my breathing and let the chatter flow in the background and then quiet -  not altogether, but definitely it decreased.

So all this is to say I am good with practising breathing (gentle meditation) as I clearly saw that it works and I have a physiological explanation of why and how it works which is appealing.  I haven't  done well with practising in my own (the chatter!) so am considering buying a biofeedback device to help.

[Kizzie]

Interesting tidbit - I just checked the Index for "Coping with Trauma Related Dissociation" (what the Book Club is reading and working through), and there is only one mention of meditation (p. 370 if you have the book). It's just one paragraph about dealing with isolation and loneliness by connecting to your God or the universe through meditation. Other than that, nothing.  I don't want to read too much into this, but it does lead me wonder why mediation is not discussed as a recovery strategy for those of us who use dissociation as a coping strategy.    Food for thought.

[Pieces]

Interesting tidbit - I just checked the Index for "Coping with Trauma Related Dissociation" (what the Book Club is reading and working through), and there is only one mention of meditation (p. 370 if you have the book). It's just one paragraph about dealing with isolation and loneliness by connecting to your God or the universe through meditation. Other than that, nothing.  I don't want to read too much into this, but it does lead me wonder why mediation is not discussed as a recovery strategy for those of us who use dissociation as a coping strategy.    Food for thought.

To me, the very first exercise is an meditation exercise, to get you in the present moment, to observe instead of being lost in thought. Actively being present = meditation. They just call it something different, same way that mindfulness sometimes get's called ''attention/focus exercise''. I think it's a more practical and suitable form of meditation, a tool to learn to do things differently without going too deep. It's not about how it's called but if it works and the word meditation seems scary for some people..

[tired]

I was thinking, after reading last few posts: Sitting still with just my mind is scary because my mind is the source of my problems. So first I had to get some control over it .  Years of analysis therapy and other things like restructuring my life have lessened the c-PTSD problems so now I can tolerate it. But I still have to force myself to let go of the netflix and other distractions i use all day long.

It helps when I do it. I think I'm at a point where I can benefit if I make myself but it took a long time to get here. A long road of self discipline along with tons of therapy and many life lessons.

My mind is like a monkey. Try making a monkey sit still.

[Kizzie]

I see what you're saying Pieces about mediation being present instead of lost in thought and rumination.  It certainly explains why watching the screen in the biofeedback session worked better than when I try and meditate on my own at home.  It kept me in the present moment instead of being swept up in the stream of consciousness chatter in my mind.

I realize now through this discussion that I do think of mediation as a process of going deeper inside my self.  That's where the trauma resides so it really is scary. Thinking of meditation in terms of learning to focus and be in the present, however, is much more appealing.   

[Jdog]

I love that reframe, Kizzie!

[Kizzie]

Definitely a benefit of discussion      (i.e., increasing our understanding of something)