CPTSD versus Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)

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ah

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Re: CPTSD versus Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2017, 03:16:24 PM »
This is a hard topic for me, I've been misdiagnosed as BPD in youth by my abusive family who made sure it was spread around in the family and among my colleagues later in life. So I was and am treated as the crazy lying manipulative black sheep ever since. It's been 3 decades now.

No one ever believed it was an abusive lie. Everyone was and is convinced I'm a total fruitcake. If I ever was trusting or dumb enough to try to talk to any person in my life about hurt, they instantly put on their disgusted "Oh Lord here we go again" face. My family have all disowned me. Since it's a personality disorder it's incurable, right? So I was discarded. I've occasionally tried in every possible way and never been able to convince anyone that this has all been an abusive lie because, of course, people with BPD are the manipulative liars! How clever...

(I just re-read this and wanted to edit and add: I'm of course not saying people with BPD are liars at all, but just that this was how I was portrayed to be)

I've long since given up.

I guess I can understand the therapists who misdiagnosed me. They didn't know any better. But they happily cooperated with my abusers. I distinctly remember one of the times they tried to commit me and declare me nuts (I was too young to run away at the time) and the social worker at the place asked if I agreed to a family session, I said "no, my family is abusive, you don't have my permission to invite them" and next thing I knew, I was called to her office to discover we were all there having a good old family talk. The betrayal by the therapists was... ugh.

That being said: really, from my experience as someone who's been completely destroyed personally by a mistaken diagnosis of BPD, there's just no comparison between trauma and BPD as I understood it. The main difference I can see is that as a traumatized person I don't use words or people. Not that there's a single person in the world who knows it but me, but I know it.

This can be an incredibly dangerous misdiagnosis to make, in the hands of abusers and unsuspecting cooperators.

Just my two cents... from lousy personal experience of a lifetime.






« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 05:10:27 PM by ah »

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Liminality

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Re: CPTSD versus Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2017, 03:57:57 PM »
This is a hard topic for me, I've been misdiagnosed as BPD in youth by my abusive family who made sure it was spread around in the family and among my colleagues later in life. So I was and am treated as the crazy lying manipulative black sheep ever since. It's been 3 decades now.

No one ever believed it was an abusive lie. Everyone was and is convinced I'm a total fruitcake. If I ever was trusting or dumb enough to try to talk to any person in my life about hurt, they instantly put on their disgusted "Oh Lord here we go again" face. My family have all disowned me. I've occasionally tried in every possible way and never been able to convince anyone that this has all been an abusive lie because, of course, people with BPD are the manipulative liars! How clever...
I relate so so so much to this. Unable to talk about it right this moment, but everything you just said. Gaslighting is one of the worst forms of abuse. It leaves no traces and is so sneaky.

Re: CPTSD versus Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2017, 01:12:15 AM »
That sounds horrible. :( I'm so sorry to hear that.

And I really hate the stigma against those with BPD. I remember my mother watching a documentary about crimes/investigations and the narrator clearly said; "The reason this woman committed murder was because of her BPD". Sure, some people are so troubled they go and do those things, but why label the entire BPD community? :S So yeah, I'm not surprised you'd get a lot of #$^&*# for that misdiagnosis. Sad it is. :\
Glad you found your 'true' diagnosis now though!

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Pilgrim

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Re: CPTSD versus Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2017, 08:55:00 AM »
Hi
I'm a newbie (oops I posted in the wrong section just a little while ago which is for those who developed C-PTSD in adulthood). Mine is from an abusive upbringing against the backdrop of the NI Troubles. Just like to say hello and say yes I had the same problem for years. I was misdiagnosed with BPD (which we all know is treated with utter contempt and stigma) and that was then changed to C-PTSD. While I know we would all not want C-PTSD the correct diagnosis was helpful - as an in-patient at times with the BPD tag the treatment and the units were straight out of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest; everything was seen as just attention seeking and health professionals just kept laying another layer upon layer. I also suffer from a very rare neurological disorder and its rareness is also damaging as health professionals just don't know what it is and just say you're faking symptoms. All that does is keep layering the C-PTSD. Trying to manage 2 misunderstood and life changing conditions is such a joy. But hey it's my birthday. Cheers Pilgrim

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ah

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Re: CPTSD versus Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
« Reply #49 on: October 16, 2017, 02:31:52 PM »
I hope today is a happier unbirthday, Pilgrim!
Yikes, sorry you were misdiagnosed with BPD too. It's quite a ride... Arghh. I'm so glad you got the correct diagnosis in the end.
 

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Gwyon

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Re: CPTSD versus Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2017, 10:06:32 PM »
Interestingly,  for me it was from being in DBT, and suspecting that I might be in the realm of BPD that I first became aware of the broader impact of my childhood trauma and that it wasn't simply "chronic depression". I'd always felt there was something more complex at work. It  was a useful revelation for me. 

Now I realize that BPD doesn’t fit, but c-ptsd does. And that's a much more useful framework.  But it was still a useful doorway to the truth, for me.

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BlancaLap

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Re: CPTSD versus Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2017, 02:45:01 PM »
Hi, I have been misdiagnosed with BPS, and I gotta say it was horrible. My (in that time) psychologist knew what I gent through and used to tell me that I should "forget it".
I gotta say, I don't believe personality disorders exist, *Please, if you don't wanna read more, quit it now*, because, what are mental disorders? Most of them can't be verified through physical methods, except for some of them... For a mental disorder to "exist", a group of doctor have to debate whether it exists, which are its symptoms... what I'm trying to say, is that mental disorders aren't like physical ones... you can't see a virus, a bacteria or a malformation in the brain (except for some disorders like I said) and verifie through that that the disorder actually exists. What doctors do is see some people, "treat" them, argue what is "wrong" with them and by consensus say what is the disorder they have.
Personality disorders are very insulting because saying someone has a personality disorder is equal to saying their personality is "wrong". It's like labelling the person as utterly wrong. If you ask a person labelled as Borderline if s/he have had a hard childhood, I'm 100% s/he is gonna say yes. Labelling a person as Borderline is just an excuse for treating that person who's personality you don't like with medication that makes more harm than good. Understanding that psychological problems aren't something you can verify by scaners but rather something people have "invented" by consensus by seeing people "that do weird stuff" or that "they don't like" is the first step to change the system. Despite what some people say, labelling someone as Borderline or with other "PD" is insulting. It's bascially saying that there is something wrong with their personality. There is nothing wrong with their personality, what is wrong is what people have done to them. If we want to change the stygma there is in psychology, we have to stop believing there is something "wrong" with people and start believing that what is wrong is what other have done to them. We don't want to be labelled as utterly wrong, we want to be cured! We don't want people to say that our personality is wrong and should change, we want them to say that what they made to us was wrong and we need the support we deserve! Stop labelling someone as "with a personailty disorder" and start making other names for "mental disorders". The name you give a disorder matters. "BPD" causes anxiety, but no one labelles it as an anxiety disorder. C-PTSD causes changes in personality, but no one labelles it as a personality disorder. The name matters. Please stop labelling people.
Thanks for reading!

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melere

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Re: CPTSD versus Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2017, 01:30:24 PM »
Hi, I have been misdiagnosed with BPS, and I gotta say it was horrible. My (in that time) psychologist knew what I gent through and used to tell me that I should "forget it".
I gotta say, I don't believe personality disorders exist, *Please, if you don't wanna read more, quit it now*, because, what are mental disorders? Most of them can't be verified through physical methods, except for some of them... For a mental disorder to "exist", a group of doctor have to debate whether it exists, which are its symptoms... what I'm trying to say, is that mental disorders aren't like physical ones... you can't see a virus, a bacteria or a malformation in the brain (except for some disorders like I said) and verifie through that that the disorder actually exists. What doctors do is see some people, "treat" them, argue what is "wrong" with them and by consensus say what is the disorder they have.
Personality disorders are very insulting because saying someone has a personality disorder is equal to saying their personality is "wrong". It's like labelling the person as utterly wrong. If you ask a person labelled as Borderline if s/he have had a hard childhood, I'm 100% s/he is gonna say yes. Labelling a person as Borderline is just an excuse for treating that person who's personality you don't like with medication that makes more harm than good. Understanding that psychological problems aren't something you can verify by scaners but rather something people have "invented" by consensus by seeing people "that do weird stuff" or that "they don't like" is the first step to change the system. Despite what some people say, labelling someone as Borderline or with other "PD" is insulting. It's bascially saying that there is something wrong with their personality. There is nothing wrong with their personality, what is wrong is what people have done to them. If we want to change the stygma there is in psychology, we have to stop believing there is something "wrong" with people and start believing that what is wrong is what other have done to them. We don't want to be labelled as utterly wrong, we want to be cured! We don't want people to say that our personality is wrong and should change, we want them to say that what they made to us was wrong and we need the support we deserve! Stop labelling someone as "with a personailty disorder" and start making other names for "mental disorders". The name you give a disorder matters. "BPD" causes anxiety, but no one labelles it as an anxiety disorder. C-PTSD causes changes in personality, but no one labelles it as a personality disorder. The name matters. Please stop labelling people.
Thanks for reading!

I think you make some really good points and I've thought about this before as well. How can it really be quantified? You can't measure thoughts. There's so much we don't know about the brain--we haven't even solved the mind-body problem!

But, from what we do know, you can detect noticeable differences in neurological functionality when comparing brain scans between healthy individuals, and those with mental illnesses or personality disorders. I take that with a grain of salt, however, as those are usually composites of a group average, and that composite doesn't actually match any individual in that group. If you want to learn more about that, I read a good book called "The End Of Average". But, overall, it is something physically detectable at this point in time, with what we know, and I have faith it's a good step forward in terms of treatment.

I will say, however, some personality disorders, such as narcissistic/sociopathic are useful for diagnosing, as those can be a good label for someone who is generally destructive and probably can't be cured. But on the opposite side of things, I agree that things like histrionic/avoidant/borderline should not be under the "hopeless" umbrella, nevermind that it's possible those diagnosed with those disorders may have C-PTSD instead. In general, the key is that people with personality disorders aren't supposed to have the self-awareness that they have a problem--it's everyone else who has a problem in their mind. Again, it's possible more people are being misdiagnosed with it than those that actually have that personality disorder. But, at the end of the day, I think it's really sad people treat them as a lost cause--BPD was originally coined to categorize people who were "lost causes" to signal other practitioners not to bother with them, from my understanding. And that's truly sad.

End of the day, I think people do tend to put people too much into boxes and then decide, based on the label alone, to not accept them. I mean, I've seen my fair share of "advice" that you should cut out depressed friends because they'll just "bring you down with them." People's personalities come in all sorts of shades and spectrums and I think we have a lot of work to do towards just accepting them, flaws and all, and trying to work with them--because labelling them as "hopeless" or "defective" is not going to do that!

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BlancaLap

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Re: CPTSD versus Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2017, 01:55:37 PM »
I like your comment.
They labelled me as borderline because I met the criteria but now I don't: does it mean I am cured? Or does it mean I never had BPD? What if BPD is another name for saying C-PTSD? I have made a pdf telling Why I had the symptoms of BPD and why some of them seemed right but are actually wrong. I can download here if you want.

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melere

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Re: CPTSD versus Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2017, 02:28:06 PM »
I like your comment.
They labelled me as borderline because I met the criteria but now I don't: does it mean I am cured? Or does it mean I never had BPD? What if BPD is another name for saying C-PTSD? I have made a pdf telling Why I had the symptoms of BPD and why some of them seemed right but are actually wrong. I can download here if you want.

Oh my goodness. I was really worried I was going to upset you! (Guess that's the C-PTSD talking.) Thank you.

What I've learned so far is that numerous people have speculated a lot of borderlines are actually suffering C-PTSD because there's so much overlap in symptoms. And some docs aren't up to date, or, as someone once told me, "Someone had to graduate at the bottom of their class," so misdiagnosis is common (as many in this thread can attest to). I think my stance on it is that they are different disorders, as some symptoms are almost polar opposites.

It's hard to say if you're "cured" or just didn't have it. On the one hand, while researching C-PTSD, I realized how far I'd come with managing most of my symptoms (whilst not knowing it was C-PTSD) but also that I would have been far, far more likely to be diagnosed borderline then, than I would now . . . but it still doesn't mean I was borderline then or just don't have BPD now. And I have to remind myself not to look at personality disorder criteria (or other illness criteria) because my anxiety will start convincing me I have that problem--only to later realize I was kind of "molding" myself into the symptoms, if that makes any sense. But as soon as I read about C-PTSD, it was different, because when I read about people's experiences, it was like reading my memoir. When I read about BPD or other illnesses, I felt like I was trying to contort myself.

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ah

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Re: CPTSD versus Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2017, 02:31:55 PM »
I'd love to read it BlancaLap! Thanks!

I find all the diagnoses that are solely based on behavior to be a bit suspect. I'd feel more comfortable about them if doctors used them cautiously, with a big question mark, but we know they don't.
And it doesn't get any easier than catching a traumatized person in a painful triggering moment, and reaching devastating conclusions about who they are. Yeah. With a personality disorder diagnosis the conclusions are beyond terrifying socially. It's the ultimate gaslighting.

But I've also read that psychopaths that were tested had brain abnormalities, their amygdala (responsible for emotional response) was really small. And, they've seen changes in people with ptsd, stands to reason c-ptsd would have similar changes if not much more than ptsd. I guess we may see some of the harm c-ptsd does by looking at the brain itself because everything we experience changes it.

But all of this can be misused so easily, I'm really saddened by what I've been reading online about c-ptsd lately. Not everywhere, in some languages in particular. Seems some smart therapists are jumping the wagon with this newly forming diagnosis, treating it like a new BPD. They're saying it's especially resilient to therapy, requires therapy for life, ... I'm too triggered by some of the things they pretend it is and how unethical they're being, but in short they put c-ptsd in the exact same box as BPD. BPD is no longer as fashionable as it once was, since then there've been newer diagnosis fads like ADHD, Aspergers 'etc., and they need new patients. Out with the old, in with the new?  :thumbdown:







« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 02:35:43 PM by ah »

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BlancaLap

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Re: CPTSD versus Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2017, 03:06:21 PM »
Yeah,that happens to me too! I read an article about a mental disease and I start thinking I have that disease! But as you said it felt different with the C-PTSD. It felt like I could see myself in every wordand phrase I read about it.

I want to upload it, but first I have to translate it, since it is in spanish... that or you can use google translate, but I don't guarantee you will understand it hahahahahaha
They made a scaner of my brain and they told me I have the most normal brain among the normal brains the have ever seen. And still I had traumas...
Yeah, it makes me upset too that some people label C-PTSD as incurable. I don't know how to explain it but I felt it, I sensed the end of my C-PTSD, I felt it can end and will end someday and how it will end... if that makes sense. I felt it months ago, and I believe it is true. There is a cure, although it won't be easy and it needs a lot of resources, such as emotional support and things like that... things not all of us have sadly. But if the system could make those things more available... I think that would make a lot of difference.

Re: CPTSD versus Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2018, 12:11:27 PM »
I do think I have BPD (as a manifestation of, or in addition to, CPTSD) but I've never abused anyone (as far as I know). I also think my mom has BPD but she has abused people. People are different even within diagnostic categories, and there's nothing in the BPD criteria that says you lie, manipulate, or abuse people.

Honestly, I've had people use my BPD diagnosis as an excuse to abuse me much more than I've ever used it as an excuse for my own actions. It's such a stigmatized diagnosis that my mom could use it to hospitalize me when she felt like it and my ex could use it to claim my disagreement with him was pathological and I deserved to be physically abused as a result. Perhaps worst of all is the judgment one gets in abuse survivor spaces. I've had fellow abuse survivors tell me I must have misunderstood my abusers or been partially responsible in a way I didn't mention. It really hurts.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 12:13:01 PM by this_evening_so_soon »

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Blueberry

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Re: CPTSD versus Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2018, 01:12:45 PM »
I'm so sorry for your bad experiences with this. You're right: within one diagnostic category there are a lot of differences.

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Contessa

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Re: CPTSD versus Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)
« Reply #59 on: August 25, 2018, 06:19:31 AM »
Those with NPD don't suffer terribly any more, that's the whole purpose of the disorder, to shield a very small and traumatized ego or self  from any more pain.  However, they cause a lot of pain for those around them although they can't or won't see that.   

Those of us with CPTSD have not yet turned that corner (as I see it and I believe this is what Walker is suggesting).  We use the defenses in an unhealthy way compared to those who don't have CPTSD, but not to the extent that those with a PD do.  It's a matter of degree.

I've come in search of this thread because I have been scared lately that I have developed BPD. I do act aggressively to members of my FOO, usually as a response to a biting trigger. For years I backed down, now as a result of repeated abuses and trauma/abandonment that completely altered my life path, I respond aggressively. But only to them.

The above quote from Kizzie is as far as I have got through the thread, but the quote is reassuring. I don't treat others that way, and I do feel horrid when my outbursts happen.

But i'll be damned if I ever apologise to my FOO again. That was a pattern I noticed early on before my larger traumas. Offering an apology for my part of a disagreement has never yielded an apology in turn for theirs. My extension of an olive branch is as good as an admission of all fault to them.

Slowly, slowly... i'm cutting all contact. For me.