Are these Red Flags????

[Sienna]

Dam my small phone  and auto correct- I will copy and paste this tomorrow but with the correct words.

[Sienna]

Please read this post instead of the one above:

Hey guys, and Kizzie,
I just wanted to fill you in.
I had a session with T today.
Anxious before hand because of her comment last session and also because of the Pete walker paper I gave her.

She was so great today.
I thought this might happen and the paranoid part of me wonders if it's a tactic she is doing (if she is bad) to confide me...
But I will see how it goes.

She asked about what it was from the article I related to and she said that if I feel she isn't saying enough or if I think she doesn't I understand or empathise, I should ask her, which we talked about -so she knows that's hard for me to do.
She was more comforting today when I cried and everything- she was validating, understanding, she made me feel they my needs etc and feelings were valid and understandable.
She spotted my Shane and was just so reassuring.
She did day "stop apologising" when I apologised for crying but she said lots of other comforting things.
I felt heard and seen by her.
She was so nice about the article and understood as the article said, that I want to feel and be heard.
However on second memory- she did say, *it seems that you just want everything to be perfect don you*
and i said, what makes you think that...?
She said she just got the impression...
I said that when it comes to therapy, isn't it ok for it to be perfect?
She said yes.
So its like she said something which i felt insulted by, then when i questioned her about it and said what i thought and she did what X said and just said *yes* as though she was agreeing with me, despite saying what she did.
She might of meant that therapy isn't always perfect-
but it was in relation to the article that she said it, - she said it when we were talking about the article..its as though she is not directly saying:
*What you want is unreasonable*
But it seems that she *is saying that* but more subtly.

She was just very reassuring so I didn't feel sepetate, stranded and alone.
She is like this sometimes, just other times not.
But I think I notice more of a difference today.
I text get to thank her and said again that I hope get confidence hadn't been knocked.
She had read my text but hadn't replied. She sometimes doesn't and I don't text after every session but I don't know why she hadn't got back to me.
Doesn't she know they I'm left wondering of I've upset her?  Could be any reason she hadn't replied so I'm trying to not get too carried away with myself in worried and negative thoughts.
She may get back to me tomorrow.
It just makes me feel they old familiar feeling of disappointment and that she can't care about me in the way that I want get too.

Kizzie, I can't thank you enough for sending me third links. You have been s life saver. 
Ps thank you everyone else so much for your comments  I'm not yet done with the support this thread has offered.

[Danaus plexippus]

regarding T not getting back to you: They may care very much about us, but we are only one of many of their clients and they have a life outside of work. To be effective they are taught to practice nonjudgmental detachment. They are trained to not be offended by anything you say. We are their clients not their bosom companions. I became attached to 2 of my Ts. They were helpful and I do occasionally miss them, but I understand their lives go on without me. I expect my current   providers in the mental hygiene industry to behave professional. As you read in my previous posts I recently had to request a transfer from the shrink who prescribes my meds. Ts and shrinks no matter how well educated and experienced, are still human and humans are not perfect. Be careful, I worry about you. As bad as this group home is involuntary hospitalization is worse, much worse. 

[Sienna]

i feel nothing but invalidated. 

[Sienna]

Had a great day and nothing will ruin. Frustrated. t wants me to list qualities I think an "ideal dad" would have,
When it comes to this therapy stuff I'm a perfectionist/- it has to work so that  I can heal.
But I am struggling and it has to be written in an order they makes sense to me and all the things he didn't do come under a heading is. Emotional neglect- do I'm thinking I just say- not emotionally neglectful- but for me it doesn't cover it.
There are behaviours I go for in men - bad ones- they may all come under the heading of neglect.
I don't know what the positive side is called either...I can only state the things he shouldn't have don'e but
I don't know what was missing from my dad because I can't remember.
So how can even she know? I think it's too early to do this and that it will be better doing this further down the line when I've figured everything out as much as I can.  It seems stupid doing this excessive when we haven't explored the past in that much detail. I need to know all of exactly what was wrong eith my parents.
Another exercise I won't have done properly. 

[Sienna]

just offloading even if know one cares or reads this.

X was at the volunteering place today.
Didn't think he'd be in.
Avoided him and stayed in one of the empty offices.
Anxiety bad and felt trapped.

Triggers today - people saying I'm fine - making assumptions about something else.
The problem is me- not being able to be honest- cos of my parents (apparent competence thing)
but it is difficult- when others assume, even when I'm not pretending all the time and am fine going about the centre.
They know nothing about the challenges i have due to visual impairment because they never see them when I'm in an unfamiliar environment. So they just make assumeptions- just come out with big statements, and i cant correct them as i dont know how to, too worried about what htyell think, that it will sound attention seeking, that they might think I'm lying or exaggerating etc. and i dont want to look attention seeking.
my head says- if people think your fine ALWAYS, and NEVER STRUGGLE - you should just pretend you are- because its good that they think that.
I know my parents wanted everything to look perfect on the outside. Thats all that mattered to them , and also, i was forced to not appear different and to look normal in every possible way.
If my mother could get rid of my hair and my visual impairment- she would have done.

I couldnt talk in T session much today- and maybe thats why.
Im sad about it and still feel that everything is invisible.
Im just so closed off and smile a lot and act like everything is fine and just a laughing matter.
People want me to appear fine and strong- and today i did that in T session

When i came out of T room-
X was there. Narc X.
It freaked me out and i panicked- saying maybe a little too loudly *Holy * *
or maybe i was the only one who heard that.
I think he and his T said something about me closing the door - i rushed out of there.
How weird when T wanted to know how i felt with him being at the centre.

He went to therapy when he was with me-
then stopped going.
He may be going just to appease and put on a good front to his new girlfriend.
It freaks me out so much.
HE IS SO FAKE. IT IS ALL SO FAKE and he may have his therapist fooled if she doesnt know about narcissism.
I really doubt that he has actually seen the light in his behaviour and that he really wants help.
It makes me sick.
And i HATE that he is there- in my own private space- the one place i go to for ME.
What?-i have to fear him being there too!??
UGH.
Who knows what he is saying to his T about me. About the no contact.
I bet he lied to her - he told me his T said he doesnt need to come anymore but that he can come back any time if he wants.
Im just hoping she said that because she sees his narc traits.
He doesnt think theres a problem- so she wont be able to help him.
I hope he doesn't have her fooled- twisting the story so that all she has to work with is what he is *telling her*, making out like he is the good person here.

The world wants me to be alone, isolated, and to deal with my problems and any feelings i have myself. So thats what i have been doing ,and that is what i will continue to do.
Thats just the way it has to be for me, just like the lady with undiagnosed NPD.
She lived a life of loneliness and whilst a narc who (as all narcs are) codependent, I'm sure she was counter-dependant too and appeared component.

[Sienna]

ps. things i forgot
X said darlin to the new girl and i love you both to her and his dog.
he used to say that to me.
it sounded like he meant it.
i know he cant love properly.
i thought- he didnt say it like that to me for a long time.
but he might have in the beginning.
he doesnt love this new girl- i just know it. The way they suddenly moved in together and i think he had her lined up and fooled for a while before he broke up with me.
The little b*.
So in the beginning- maybe he didnt what he said to me either.
I know he cant fully mean it- he can only love in his own way- being a narc.
but being all for yourself and manipulating is not loving properly.
I dont know if he can feel love in his own way for someone else.

It does hurt that *she*, his new girl who was a so called  friend to me, is now at home with the little dog who was also mine- while he is in his T session.
She should be at home with me.
Its like now she has a new mummy. But i was never her mother, i wouldnt want to force that title on here. She was adopted and she might not want anyone else to be labled her mother .
Its all just so weird and ...so weird.

Thats all.

[Three Roses]

"The world wants me to be alone, isolated, and to deal with my problems and any feelings i have myself. So thats what i have been doing ,and that is what i will continue to do.
Thats just the way it has to be for me...."

nope nope nope. the people here on this forum are part of that same world, and we all want you to be healthy & happy, and want you to have loving, happy and healthy relationships. i too am having a hard time dealing with the world and its expectations, i know it's difficult. and i'm sorry you feel so betrayed & alone. you don't need to stay in that feeling tho. keep talking, keep opening up, and be who you want to be! healthy, happy, loving and loved. 

[Sienna]

Hi Three Roses

Thanks for writing.
I am sorry you are also struggling. 
I hope that you will find happiness and support one day too.

I dont know how to be open. And i have know one to be open to. Im just not surrounded by those types of people, and sometimes, the forum ignores too, no matter how small i write.
it might come one day, but for today, it is not so.
Nothing will make it go away, only shoving back under the rug that is my being and dissociating from it.
I will feel better in a few days i hope. It seems at the moment to go in cycles, and today triggers and therapy triggered it but i was the one who triggered myself in therapy. I feel guilty but i can't help it.
maybe its the truth at the moment in my life, based in reality- the people who are around.
T said that maybe my dad just doesnt care about me, and she may be right. So i think ive attracted others like that.
Sometimes i just start invalidating myself and telling myself to buck it up and to be tough.
i really appreciate your support and i hope your ok...

[radical]

 

It seems at the moment to go in cycles

Me too.  Hang in there and be as kind as you can be to yourself, particularly when things are really rough.

[Sienna]

Hey Radical.
I hope your doing ok (or not..thats ok too..but i hope your alright.)
:bight:

Its good that someone else understands the cycles.
Hang in there and be as kind as you can be to yourself, particularly when things are really rough.
Thanks a lot. Something i find very difficult when i feel this way. Thank you. 

[sanmagic7]

i agree about the cycles - they will come and go, but, i've found that as i continue in recovery, the cycles come around less often, and for a shorter period of time.

just a thought on the whole idea of the x fooling others:  i've struggled with that for about 6 months, and it rips me up sometimes.  my ex-husband narc has been fooling people forever.  well, me included.  a few years ago i discovered he was also a misogynist, that my daughter told him so. he and i (we were still in contact then) were talking about it, said he took it to the female therapist he'd been seeing. she told him no way, he'd been her client for a year and a half, she'd know if he was a woman-hater.  then he said to me 'i'm a really good liar'.

and, i think that sums it up for the narcs of the world - they are really good liars.  they know just what sorts of things to say and do that put them in a good light for the outside world, and even for those who know them more intimately, like a therapist.  since many, if not most, therapists don't know the true nature of npd (i've been a therapist for 25 yrs., didn't really know the ins and outs of it till it all hit me in the face in my personal life like a ton of bricks!   we sure weren't taught much, if anything, about this personality disorder, just a general 'self-absorbed, wants attention' kind of thing.), they can be easily fooled through no fault of their own.  as we bring this to their attention, i believe the more motivated and caring therapists will rise to the occasion and do some investigating.  and tell their colleagues.  just like with c-ptsd.  i had to explain the difference between this and regular ptsd to my own therapist just a few days ago - she's young and green, and there's no diagnosis for c-ptsd in the therapist's bible - the dsm.  so, she had nothing else to go on.  but she listened, and i think she learned. 

so, sienna, hang tough.  i know it sounds trite, but sometimes it's all we have.  just know that on this forum you are being heard and understood because we're going through much the same things, or have similar experiences.  and, i give you credit for venting it out here, even when you're feeling like no one is reading/listening.  yes, we are.  sometimes we're also going through something tough, and are hanging on by our fingernails as well, and just don't have the energy to deal with what someone else is going through.  but, that doesn't mean we're not still here.   we are. 

one thought that helped get me through the 'it's so unfair' thinking was about rape victims, and how often their perpetrators have gotten away with that violation, gone home to friends and family who would never guess what s/he was capable of.  and, i thought to myself, these victims have had to find a way to deal with a lack of justice or retribution, and if they can do it, then, by god, so can i.  i don't know if that helps you, i don't know where it came from, but i do know that since that thought swam through my head, my yearning for justice, fairness, and retribution diminished.  i thought i'd share in case it might help you.  best to you.  you're not alone.

[Sienna]

Samagic7

i've found that as i continue in recovery, the cycles come around less often, and for a shorter period of time.
That is good to hear. Im very happy about that for you.

Oh my. Im so sorry to hear of what happened there with your narc.
That is really awful. 
It rips you up- yes, i understand it feeling like that.
Thank you for sharing your story. I know how frustrating it is.

Yes, just because his therapist is a therapist does not mean that she knows your X more than you do. You lived with him. Same for your daughter doo.
Not all therapists are experienced in narcissism, and narcs are so cleaver, they even fool therapists.
It is so creepy that he said to you that he was lying.
ah sorry- just read what your wrote next- woah, you are a therapist. That is so great.

we sure weren't taught much, if anything, about this personality disorder, just a general 'self-absorbed, wants attention' kind of thing.),
thats not cool. Do you think it depends what you specialise in?
But i would think that if itstraum work you do, then it seems crazy that you wouldnt be taught about how people can be after trauma- defences etc? the many different trauma responses.

the more motivated and caring therapists will rise to the occasion and do some investigating.  and tell their colleagues.
That would be so great.
Its so great that you explained cptsd to another therapist. I knew that it wasnt in the DSM and apparently therapists know it as being called multiple trauma.

Thankfully my T knows abut Cptsd and pete walker...now that i mentioned it to her, but she doesnt know about narcissism- well...she doesnt know the terms that the internet uses to describe what they do- their behaviours -
but i hope this doesn't mean that she wont be able to help me.
She might be familiar with narc stuff but not the terms.

so, sienna, hang tough.  i know it sounds trite, but sometimes it's all we have.  just know that on this forum you are being heard and understood because we're going through much the same things, or have similar experiences.  and, i give you credit for venting it out here, even when you're feeling like no one is reading/listening.  yes, we are.
Thank you.

Trigger Warning....
I posted about a sexual assault that happened after i left X very recently on the how are you feeling board and know one responded. I dont always want responses. Its just an outlet.
But at that time, i wished that i had a caring mother who could be there for me.
The lady at the refuge from the office wanted to know how i was and i ended up stupidly telling her.
She was so invalidating. So i just felt so alone and alone on this board.
It might have been triggering to others.

sometimes we're also going through something tough, and are hanging on by our fingernails as well, and just don't have the energy to deal with what someone else is going through. 
No, i totally understand, and thats what i thought.
I was just thrown and felt alone and uncared about because, people have responded a lot to other things ive written, but that, it felt like it was being ignored.
I never talked about it again...i wouldnt anyway. But T confirmed it was assault.

one thought that helped get me through the 'it's so unfair' thinking was about rape victims, and how often their perpetrators have gotten away with that violation, gone home to friends and family who would never guess what s/he was capable of.  and, i thought to myself, these victims have had to find a way to deal with a lack of justice or retribution, and if they can do it, then, by god, so can i.
Yes, exactly.
I hope you dont mind me saying this, but it seems to me, that you are invalidating your own pain when you say:

i do know that since that thought swam through my head, my yearning for justice, fairness, and retribution diminished.  i
I just hope that you are not stuffing your feelings.
I know that an important part of recovery is feeling this stuff. This stuff that you have never been allowed to feel.
I have barely started feeling it and i think i am comming out of denial.
Its ok to feel that you are angry, yearning for justice and retribution.
I have not let my anger out yet. I cant where I'm living. and its something ive always struggled with.
but i will only be able to let go of those feelings if i let them out.
i hope you dont think its bad that I'm talking about stuff on the board. and being honest here about how i feel.
i cant let this stuff just exist only in my head. ill go insane, and for once, I'm finally speaking out (on here) about how i really feel and about what really happened.
Here is the only place that allows me to, and the only place that i feel i can.
I am not wallowing in self pity. I'm just experiencing the unfairness of things that i never allowed myself to feel. Those with NPD do rape you mentally. The exploit you, emotionally and physically. They strip you bear and leave you like a bag of trash. At least that was my experience.

I hope you know what i am saying. I just thought you were discouraging me from feeling my anger and feelings of unfairness. Its to early for me to put away those feelings like i always did, now that i am feeling them, because i need to feel them in order to heal. Then i can truly move forward and not in a deniel coated way that i have used to survive my entire life. 

[Sienna]

Somatic7, sorry, i just have to say,
maybe i went a bit crazy and misread what you meant by the ending of your post.
You might have just being encouraging.
I'm trying to trust my gut intuition more, but- i could have flashed back to another time where i was invalidated.
i am used to others saying that emotional and psychological abuse is nothing and that physical abuse is *worse*.
so if you didnt mean that, then I'm sorry ,and i hope i didnt trigger you.
forgot to put a trigger warning at the bottom.

[sanmagic7]

i was absolutely not invalidating you in any way.  i've been there, been shushed, told not to dwell in the past, a million different ways of telling me that what i'm thinking or feeling just needs to be 'fixed' or 'forgotten'.  no, i struggled with thoughts of revenge, retribution, and justice for months, and it was driving me crazy.  i tried all kinds of things to diminish these thoughts and feelings, and could make some progress, but they kept intruding.  what i was saying was that i had the experience of having a flash of a thought about others who have had to go through situations and experiences (i just used rape victims as an example) where they haven't been able to have a feeling of justice or closure, and it suddenly occurred to me, and i'm only talking about me, personally, that there have been many people who have found a way to move on with their lives in spite of their inability to see justice done.  it was a very inspiring thought to me.  when this thought came to my mind, it created a transformation within me, and the negativity basically disappeared.  i didn't need to push it aside, it just wasn't there anymore, not to the crazy-making extent it had been.

that's not to say that those thoughts don't occasionally pop up every now and then, because they do.  but, within the idea of the cycles, they don't stay as long, they're not as venomous, and i'm able to accept more readily that things are the way they are, and i can't fix them to be the way i'd like them to be.  but, it was a moment of some sort of clarity for me that came out of nowhere, maybe of a spiritual nature, i don't really know.  at any rate, i'm just more at peace with what is than i had been.

and, thanks for your concern about me stuffing feelings.  i don't believe that's the case, because i'm still angry at times that it isn't different.  but, for some reason, it isn't as strong, and it doesn't last for as long.  and, i continue to write in a journal, and that helps me to be as honest as possible about myself, cause those feelings will come out when i write.  and, when they do, i go do something physical with them, like pound on my bed and yell obscenities!  maybe that doesn't work for everyone, but it helps me.  : )

so, sienna, i'm sorry if it came across in any way that i might be invalidating your feelings or thoughts about your situation. or trying to suggest that you should be able to cope differently than you already are.  i know that a lot of times the hurt and pain and suffering on a psychological level are much worse than what we might feel physically.  and, no, you didn't trigger me at all.  i'm just so glad that you are able to write it all out in this place, in a place where we really do care, where we can relate to your pain, the suffering, the struggle, the challenge of getting past such horrific wounding by another - maybe more than one.  that's why this is complex.  there are so many levels, each as valid as the next.   you are where you are in your process, and that's to be honored for what it is, and doesn't need to be compared to the process of anyone else.  i think you're doing a great job of using this forum for venting, for being vulnerable, for asking for help.  that takes real courage.  i will just say that i encourage you to keep coming back.  we're here for you.