Triggered by feeling invalidated about being c-ptsd & emotionally abused

[Flutterbye]

One thing I value so highly about OOTS here is that I feel like I actually exist and people understand me, that the parental narcissistic abuse, tho largely psychological in nature, actually happened. I went to my 3d support group this week, it's for adult survivors of child abuse. Whilst I respect the severity of all kinds of childhood trauma (s*xual violence, physical violence) and don't wish to minimise them, at times I feel that narcissistic abuse/emotional abuse isn't quite understood or acknowledged as childhood trauma, nor the long-term impacts which I often struggle with on a daily basis.

I shared an accomplishment - that I ended a risky 'friendship' recently because it was very triggery and I knew I was headed for another manipulative/abusive dynamic, that it was a positive step for me in my recovery as I was able to actually end it and in its early stages, breaking my dysfunctional pattern.

My peer, whilst I'm sure was well-meaning, suggested I'd done it all wrong..  sided with the 'friend' (who I'd merely described), their need for friendship & to fit in, that their aggression towards me was an indication of really important unmet need (pardon, how is that the point of my recovery?).. and that I should go back and rekindle the friendship, use negotiation skills to make it a good friendship and introduce my 'friend' to new people & help them to form other friendships so they weren't alone.

That's all pretty much the opposite of my recovery goals.

  Urg. Like, apart from the fact that my peer's input was just seemingly off topic (I'd already ended the friendship, was sharing my accomplishment in breaking my dysfunctional pattern, not asking, 'should I or shouldn't I end the friendship?'), I found it intensely triggering & invalidating.

I've being having intense EF since, very frustrated & stressed. It's as if those few short words from my peer invalidated that I'm a survivor of psychological child abuse at all, that the abuse never happened, that I have no moral right to go nc with people as the most healthy choice. and so on. It reminds me of some really damaging therapy I unfortunately did when I'd managed to go nc with my Nmother & all my then therapist could say was that I should go back to her & make the relationship good, no support for my choice or the reasons behind it.

I feel so frustrated. My peer said they'd never had to end a friendship with someone & couldn't relate to my situation. So why say all that to me? Why undermine my healthy choices that are right for me? I know it can be very tempting to share my 2c worth in supports groups but this input is just feeling terribly invalidating. I feel like yelling, 'don't you understand emotional abuse is serious?' I'd never share this accomplishment in any old social context, felt it was ok to be vulnerable in this 3d group given that it's for ca survivors but something went quite wrong.

Nothing really productive to say here OOTS folk, but I feel a bit better for telling you about this. Thank you for listening, it's nice to have a safe place.

[Dutch Uncle]

I hear you, Flutterbye.

Why does it have to fall on us to make a relationship work? Why do we have to give way in order to help somebody else, when it has negative consequences for our wellbeing?
No worries, these are rhetorical questions.

We don't have to do any of that.

Perhaps you should hook your peer up with your 'friend'. 
On second thoughts: don't. 

Good for you, ending this relationships that had all kind of red flags for you. 
It's progress. And so is recognizing your peer invalidated you. 

[radical]

Narcissistic abuse, adult bullying etc. are at the level of understanding that domestic violence was in the 60s and 70s.  Victim blaming and denial reign supreme.

I've experienced all sexual abuse and violence, and know that psychological violence can be just as devastating, more if you count the invalidation that goes with it.

The latest research shows that childhood bullying has worse effects on survivors in adulthood than childhood sexual abuse.  People are slowly starting to wake up.  So sorry you had to deal with other people's ignorance in a support group.  You must have felt awful.

[Danaus plexippus]

All support groups are not created equal. I have to ask, didn't the group T have anything to say about this flagrant breach of group therapy protocol? My group therapist just went to the mat for me against a doctor she works with, one of her own colleagues. Your group T should have put a stop to this counterproductive diatribe. That's her job! By allowing one member of the group to bag on others she is destroying the "support" in "support group." If you felt invalidated you were invalidated. No one has the right to tell you what to feel. There are no right or wrong feelings. That's B. S. This "peer" belongs on your $#*+ list too. No one has the right to lay a guilt trip on you for going NC with the toxic. It's a matter of psychological survival. When someone tells you who they are, believe it! Life is too short to waste on people that make us feel worse instead of better. Short answer: you were right, they were wrong, both the "peer" and the T.

[Flutterbye]

Narcissistic abuse, adult bullying etc. are at the level of understanding that domestic violence was in the 60s and 70s.  Victim blaming and denial reign supreme.

I've experienced all sexual abuse and violence, and know that psychological violence can be just as devastating, more if you count the invalidation that goes with it.

The latest research shows that childhood bullying has worse effects on survivors in adulthood than childhood sexual abuse.  People are slowly starting to wake up.  So sorry you had to deal with other people's ignorance in a support group.  You must have felt awful.

thanks radical. So appreciate your perspective, it's a real comfort. I grew up with physical violence & unhealthy sexual boundaries but it was the chronic emotional abuse that did the damage. I love Daniel Mackler's writings on emotional abuse and emotional incest, at times it's been a radical & sane voice in the wilderness that's stopped me going nuts.

My experience sure does agree with the research..I've tried 3 adult survivor 3d support groups and noticed I'm by far the most impaired with my relational/social abilities & the most socially isolated. I still get a shock when peers start talking about their SO's, families, FOO's, jobs, friends etc. high level relational skills & large network of functional relationships. And I've had at least two trauma T's terminate after admitting that they've never worked with someone as traumatised a me (where my strong feeling of, 'I know a lot more about this than you do,' was finally validated.) It's also sad but I suppose useful to appreciate how extreme the psychological abuse of my Nparents was (is), how extreme their PD's are on the spectrums. Urg, don't relish those insights but they can be helpful.

DU, Danaus thanks for your support.

Danaus, the entire group sided with my peer. Not unusual in my experience. I have often found that in 3d survivor support groups, as radical described, whether it's a peer or a facilitator voicing it, "victim blaming & denial reign supreme".

thanks for you support & kind words OOTS people 

[Danaus plexippus]

I hope you find the support you need. Keep writing as much or as little as you need; as you are comfortable with. https://youtu.be/HLrVRrDFjNQ

[woodsgnome]

Thank you, flutterbye, for starting this thread, and Danaus plexippus for the wonderful musical expression. I know I posted the following poem in the cafe/poetry section, but as it seems to fit together with what's been said, here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqzN-vs4Adc

[papillon]

Sorry about your experience with the group. It doesn't sound like a productive experience. You have every right to have been frustrated, and I completely understand how that would lead you to a nasty EF.

I've gone no contact in both healthy and unhealthy ways before. I could have handled some of them with more grace, but ultimately each of those situations needed to happen for my own physical/mental health and safety. Good for you to have made a healthy choice for yourself.

Slightly off topic...

When possible, I like to let people know why I'm establishing boundaries with them, especially if I have an ultimate hope for restoration/reconciliation with that person. Even if I'm desiring no future contact (and as long as this is a civil relationship) I want to show respect to the other person and give them feedback instead of leaving them wondering what happened (or letting them fill in the blanks from their perspective).

One thing I value so highly about OOTS here is that I feel like I actually exist and people understand me, that the parental narcissistic abuse, tho largely psychological in nature, actually happened.

I feel the same way. Sometimes I despair and start the downward spiral when I think about how foreign my lived experiences are to 'normals'. I quickly revert to the neglect/abuse-informed thoughts of worthlessness and hopelessness. Having this forum, even if we're all removed from each other by the internet, reminds me that I'm not alone, I'm not at fault, and I might even have something to offer to others. I think we get used to feeling like we've come at life with a deficit, it's nice to be with others who can validate that our experiences have given us unique life skills. We can approach people who are suffering and give compassion, empathy, and practical advice on moving forward... most 'normals' I've known don't seem to have the capacity to see beyond their rose-colored-lenses worldview to speak into suffering the way we can.

[Three Roses]

That's just maddening! Wow. Well, I say GOOD JOB for ending that friendship before it did you more harm! You saw the signals, listened to your instincts and took care of yourself first! That's the way to do it.

As for your "peer" ... she may be roughly your age but you are light years ahead of her in your self-knowledge and insight. Maybe she will learn from your example, maybe not ... but no matter, YOU will be taking care of yourself!!

[Chartery]

Thank you for this post Flutterbye.  I agree with everyone's responses and I don't have anything further to add, but it tap into my own frustration and anger how you were wronged.

woodsgnome, thanks for the Jeff Foster link.  All new to me and it made me tear up.

[felloutofthesky]

I completely relate. I grew up in an emotionally / verbally / mentally / psychologically abusive home, primarily directed towards me because I was a feisty kid and always fought back. To this day, I wish with all my heart that I had been beaten up because then it seems like people would validate me for cutting off my parents, in addition to a lot of other choices I've made in the past, and in addition to perhaps seeing my self destructiveness as a trauma reaction rather than attention seeking. I couldn't care less about physical pain and I used to feel that if I was hit, at least somebody would be touching me? I had to make the decision to validate myself and experiences of my own accord. I have a wonderful therapist and an amazing friend who have supported me and validated my experiences, but even then I have struggled to feel like it is genuine. I know what I lived through and I had to decide for myself to trust my instincts and to acknowledge what happened. If people don't get it, that's their problem. Nobody can validate it for me, really. I hope that helps

[Lottina]

I completely relate. I grew up in an emotionally / verbally / mentally / psychologically abusive home, primarily directed towards me because I was a feisty kid and always fought back. To this day, I wish with all my heart that I had been beaten up because then it seems like people would validate me for cutting off my parents, in addition to a lot of other choices I've made in the past, and in addition to perhaps seeing my self destructiveness as a trauma reaction rather than attention seeking.

I too was emotionally abused and neglected but not physically or sexually abused. The fact that I too have cut off my parents makes me feel ashamed as if it is for no good reason so it's good to hear someone else feels the same way

[sanmagic7]

really sorry you had to experience that, especially in a support group, where we tend to let our guard down a bit thinking it's a safe place.  it's supposed to be a safe place, a person is supposed to be able to be vulnerable, to be heard and listened to, and to be supported.  i guess the truth is, we have to feel a group out for a while to see if it actually is a safe place.  i know of groups that were quite disrespectful, quite uninterested, quite unsupportive, and i know of others where i could say anything and was simply listened to (most were 12-step groups), but i yearned for supportive feedback in those, and that wasn't there, either.

at any rate, to turn the tables on you, telling you to look after the person you had just disconnected from because of self-care, is just not right.  and, for the moderator to not have your back in such an instance seems wrong as well.  this is like any invisible illness - often it is only others who have experienced it who know the devastation that emotional abuse can produce, the ramifications that are so far reaching into so many corners of our lives, and the levels it infiltrates.  as a recovering alcoholic/drug addict, getting off and staying off substances was a piece of cake compared to what i'm finding in my experience with c-ptsd. 

my dear friend is also recovering from c-ptsd, and we are so grateful to have one another on this journey.  unfortunately, we live in different countries, so email is basically the only way we can communicate, and sometimes that's even too much energy.  but, i'm also grateful to have found this forum.  the support and validation here have been healing beyond measure.  i'm glad you're here, too, flutterbye, and sincerely hope that you have no more dreadful experiences like the one you wrote about.  it's hard enough to make our way through this tangled web without someone adding to the mess.  keep taking care of yourself no matter what anyone says!

[~Lapis-Lazuli~]

I know right!?  People act as if emotional abuse isn't trauma.  I had childhood emotional abuse happen to me for about 12 years, and I know the feelings of invalidation, toxic shame, and the intense emotional flashbacks that come with it.
Thankfully, I talked to my mom about it, and she owned up to her mistakes.
I feel really blessed in that area.

[Three Roses]

Hello and welcome, Lapis! I'm happy you're here. Beep.