*trigger* abuse?

[Sandstone]

Hi i really need some opinions please. When i was 7 my mum and a fella were sat in front of me kissing and he took her breasts out and fondled them in front of me. Another time she had sex with a man while i was laid in bed at the side of her, she even held my hand? And i 'walked' in on her having sex with yet another man. Is this abuse? Theres lots more background to the story before and after 7 but this is a sticking point at the moment.  Im a bit upset just now as iv text mum to say we need to talk. She asked if it was because she was a bad mum then said she was only young and the past should be left in the past. Unfortunately it isnt in the past as im still struggling daily. Which iv told her. Not sure she remembers most of what i want to say. I tried talking to her a few yrs ago but she couldn't handle it. Still dont think she will be able to if im honest. She got angry last time. I worry she will start smoking again if i say anything and she has really bad lungs and only just managed to give up this yr. i was thinking of giving her some info on cptsd to digest at her own pace.  Thanks for listening.

[Three Roses]

From http://www.pandys.org/whatissexualabuse.html -

"Child sexual abuse could include a number of acts, including but not limited to:

Sexual touching of any part of the body, clothed or unclothed;
Penetrative sex, including penetration of the mouth;
Encouraging a child to engage in sexual activity, including masturbation;
Intentionally engaging in sexual activity in front of a child;
Showing children pornography, or using children to create pornography;
Encouraging a child to engage in prostitution."

Sorry to say, it seems like this fits.

[Sandstone]

Yeah i kinda thought so. Along with emotional abuse and neglect. Thanks again Three Roses. Not sure how she is going to take it when i try to explain it to her tho.

[Sandstone]

Well i had the conversation iv wanted to have for over 20 yrs with my mum. I have to say she took it well and even took responsibility for things which really surprised me. I know she too has cptsd tho not sure she will do anything about it. It feels like something has changed inside of me. Only a small thing but its gotta be progress right? never ever thought id be able to say those words to her. Two big incidents she said she didn't remember and said she must have been very drunk at the time. She said she was very ashamed of what she did. Unfortunately drink played a part in pretty much most of my childhood events. (Surprisingly i now have an alcoholic partner) anyway just wanted to share my small step with you as this place is the only place i feel safe and completely understood. With all the madness that goes on around me, this is my refuge.

[Three Roses]

You're fortunate indeed, that she listened, validated you and apologized! These are rare gifts you've received. I am so happy for you! 

[Sandstone]

Thank you Three Roses xx

[sanmagic7]

from what you wrote about your history with your mum and trying to talk to her, i'd say you took a big step, and the result was a change for the better.  as 3roses said, that's a gift, and one you gave yourself.   good for you - i acknowledge your bravery, courage, and perseverance.  and, very glad your mum was able to be accountable for her part in that.

i'm not surprised you have an alcoholic partner.  we often pick people to be with in later life to mirror what we had gotten comfortable with in childhood.  not that we like it, it's just that we're comfy with the behaviors, the chaos, and not knowing exactly what to expect when.  best to you with all that.  i hope you can continue to share your progress.  we're here for you. 

[Sandstone]

Thank you sanmagic7 that means a lot. My therapist said i was brave too.  It feels like iv given her (mum) some of the baggage back that iv carried for so long.

As for my partner yes iv been with 2 violent partners in the past. Just like my mum and dad were.
Stupid thing is this time i knew from the off he was a functioning alcoholic and yet i still went ahead with it. Thing is when he gets drunk ( not too often thankfully ) it triggers me.

Iv tried to explain it to him but he doesnt seem to get it. I see his eyes change like my parents did. I dont like it. Then i get wary.

Four times in the last year he has thrown a drink over me. This last time im ashamed to say i lashed out at him for it.

I just remember thinking youre not getting away with doing it again!
Then i threw myself on my bed curled up and said go on hit me then. He didn't.

That was two weeks ago. We havnt discussed the incident yet. I know its not healthy for me. 90% of the time hes lovely. Its the first time iv actually ever felt i am loved and he says the same.

He does want to quit drinking and i think one day we can heal together. Tho at times i feel like im just kidding myself.

Thank you for listening xx

[sanmagic7]

sandstone, may i be so bold as to suggest that couples counseling may be a good idea for the two of you?  if he's serious about wanting to stop drinking, a therapist may be able to help guide him to resources, such as 12-step groups (AA), informative books, etc. (and those might help both of you as well) so that he can have support for his quitting, and you can both learn more about what alcohol addiction is all about.  and, an al-anon group may be very helpful for you, too.  again, support is available, as well as tools for coping with alcoholic behavior.

i also noticed in your post that twice you denigrated yourself, calling yourself stupid and feeling ashamed because you lashed out at his inappropriate behavior.  you may feel stupid and ashamed about your actions, but you don't have to.  addictions and addictive behavior have a life of their own, and when we grow up with them, it is a life with which we are familiar, and, therefore, comfortable.  however, our feelings about the behavior are natural as well.  anger, frustration, anxiety, and whatever else may be in that mix are not only about the present, but, i'm guessing, they're about the past, too. 

and, trying to explain to an active alcoholic how you're feeling, especially when said alcoholic is drinking, will not be understood.  yes, i've seen the change in the eyes in my narc ex, and i knew that the man i was married to had gone, and someone else had taken his place.  but, even when not drinking, an alcoholic mindset cannot grasp the perspective of recovery, even if it's recovery from something different, like c-ptsd.  it's like you're speaking a different language to him, one that he doesn't understand.  and, even more, one that he is not able to understand unless he gets into recovery himself, and begins to work on his own issues.

i hope some of this is helpful, and/or makes sense to you.  best to you.  if you both go down a recovery path, i believe that the two of you can heal together.

[Sandstone]

yes it definitely makes sense to me sanmagic7 , thank you for understanding. Sorry that you have been there to understand tho.

Couples therapy is a good idea and he has mentioned it once before so i think ill bring it back up.

My brother is a chronic alcoholic since  aged 12 and hes 30 this year. He was sexually abused. He has done rehab twice and has pancreatitis but still drinks.

My kids and i have seen him in some really bad states, seizures, covered in blood etc. Iv had to take him to meetings etc in the past.

Pretty much all my family growing up inc grandparents,  aunts have all been big drinkers and used to fight with each other while my cousin and i were there.

My fella has seen the states of my brother.  He said he used to be the same. In and out of hospital etc.
He thinks cos he only has a couple of tins after work that hes no longer an alcoholic. The weekend he throws them back. And he drives.  Lost his license once.

Think its time we had a serious talk. Thanks again for understanding,  i have no one else who does. Xx

[sanmagic7]

hey, sandstone,

i understand because i've been there, from both sides.  i've been with alcoholics/addicts, and am one myself, in recovery.  i've also counselled that population. 

i'll be interested to know how this all turns out.  and, if you have any questions, feel free to ask. 

i once had a couple for therapy where the man smoked pot every day.  he told me he didn't have a problem, that he was in a band, and that's what band members do.  i asked him if he'd be willing to stop smoking for as long as we were having sessions.   (this could be the same for drinking or any other addiction).  he agreed.  what happened that i thought was interesting was how much of a difference his wife could see once he wasn't smoking.  she never realized how different he was without it because she was so used to him being high every day.  and, she was able to tell him that she liked him better when he wasn't high.  it was a turning point in their relationship.

the point of this is that you will be with a different partner if he does, indeed, stop drinking, and it may feel uncomfortable to you at first.  with your family history, i would imagine you're very used to the thought processes, and behaviors of active drinkers, people with whom you have been close for a great part of your life.  that's why getting into a support group for yourself (al-anon) is so important for you, whether he stops drinking or not.  your own dynamic with active drinkers probably has its own patterns that you may be unaware of (such as your reference to going to bed and inviting him to hit you). 

addiction, as it has been said, is a family disease, which means the addictive, dysfunctional dynamic between the parties involved (you and your partner) doesn't necessarily stop once sobriety appears.  both people have issues to be explored, understood, and resolved to make the relationship a happy, healthy, adult relationship.  i'm rooting for you.

[Sandstone]

Ah so you can understand both sides then,  from inside and out.

We had a chat last night. He basically said he doesnt think hes ready to stop yet. That if he goes to docs for help they will tell dvla and he will lose his license. Obviously more excuses.

Funny thing is tho he actually said, 'you  havnt seen me without a drink.'  'Im worse than i am when iv had one'  I asked what he meant and he said he was a right grumpy b*****d off the drink. 

Like you say he will be totally different and i have to be aware of that.
I suggested therapy for him but he says he has no issues lol sorry im not laughing but ugh....

In your opinion,  do alcoholics have issues or can they just become addicted for no reason?
My brother used to say it was because he liked the taste. Until it eventually came out he was bein abused from 12 when he was plied with drink by a groomer.

Anyway iv explained that i am on this journey and my aim is to be clean of everything before i start my emdr (waiting list is up to 2 yrs)
And he reckons he can still do his thing while i do mine. Hmm i genuinely dont know if that will work or whether i wont want to be around that type of thing by then.

He says i cant expect him to stop everything just cos i will have. I agree.

So at the moment its carry on as usual. My boundaries are getting stronger so will see how things go.

Many thanks for your insight sanmagic7 xx

[sanmagic7]

good morning, sandstone,

to answer your question honestly, anyone with an addiction has issues.  like your brother, they may come up with excuses for using/drinking/whatever addiction they're into, but there is always a reason that they're, in this case, drinking.  it sounds like your partner is in denial right now - he's not ready to stop, he doesn't have a problem, and without drinking he's a grumpy b**. 

what i've found is that most alcoholics are depressed, and one symptom of depression is often irritability or grumpiness.  everyone i know or have worked with had depression under their drinking.  i did, too.

the addiction is used for different reasons by different people:  to escape the reality of their life, to numb the pain of something (your brother, perhaps), to self-medicate - make themselves feel better for whatever reason.  but, there is always an underlying cause. 

addicts are often very intelligent, and very deceptive; they can find reasons to use at the drop of a hat.  what addiction does, though, is to disallow intimacy/closeness in a relationship.  since the addict is either looking to use, using, or in the hangover/euphoria after using, the addiction is always coming first.  therefore, the relationship, i.e., the other person, will always come second.  always. 

and, an addict who is not ready to quit will find excuses all the time for not quitting, from the mundane to the absurd. 

you are in the position of the enabler now.  that's another truth, albeit a difficult one, possibly, to hear.  there is no shame, judgment or anything like that for it.  i've been an enabler, and have been enabled by others.  it's part of the disease of addiction.  like i said, it's a family affair.  the user cannot stay in the family system without being enabled. 

that's why i suggested that you find an al-anon group for yourself.  it will provide you with a lot of information, as well as support for your situation.

are you also drinking/using substances?  you don't need to answer, but you said that you wanted to be off everything by the time you begin emdr, so it seemed to me as if you are actively using something as well.  when you do stop, your perspective will also change, and he will look different to you whether he's sober or not.  you don't have to be sober to belong to al-anon.  while you're waiting for the emdr therapy to be available, are you seeing someone yourself?  these could be issues to be brought up in sessions, again for information and/or support. 

i'm glad to hear your boundaries are getting stronger.  that's a good thing, i think.  take care of you first, always.   

[Sandstone]

Hi sanmagic7

Yes he is depressed underneath it all. He has just said hes thinking about looking at ways to stop without involving docs. Im pretty sure he will find a reason /excuse for whatever is available tho. Hes worried about what he will use to replace the drink.

As for me, iv taken things pretty much since i was 15 started with cider (don't drink now and i never became addicted to it) i used to inhale gas, had acid, ecstasy, speed. Speed is my Achilles heel but it gives me head problems. Its taken me this long to realise this and i dont take it often but im always so tired and sleep most days. I asked docs for a pick me up in the past but they wouldn't give me anything. Thing is for the first time in my life (now i know whats wrong with me) im ready to face life straight headed. Scary tho.
Its weekends if i usually take something. 

I realise im no better than an alcoholic really am i. But im ready to heal. Iv no idea who ill be when iv been clear headed for a length of time. Its never happened.

Im ashamed to say i smoked cannabis through most of my first pregnancy.  Before i got pregnant a second time i had a flashback of SA while on acid and it broke my heart. I wanted to get absolutely * faced after that but found out i was pregnant (probably saved me) so went on anti depps and into counselling.  After id had my son id decided the abuse didnt really happen i must have imagined it. And had been in denial since.

Obviously as we all know things dont go away, they fester.
See my problem is can i call it a real flashback if i was on acid? Or does it open u up to things?   
After reading about flashbacks,  it was exactly as described,  i felt like a little girl and i sobbedy heart out with real emotion and i dont know where it came from but felt very real. But on acid? Ill never know unfortunately.

Now iv admitted to all my drug taking i feel like crap, that im gonna be judged and looked down on. I know i probably wont but at least im being honest with you.

I just finished my last session of therapy last week. Id had 3 montjs of it. Not sure where im going next but im booked in for group therapy to work on self esteem and assertiveness. Im looking forward to that.

[sanmagic7]

no, sandstone, no judgment.  i've done my share of drugs in my time.  besides, who am i to judge whether i did anything or not?  i applaud you for your honesty, and courage to share.  yay!

are you still in denial about the sa?  did it happen?  yes, your brain was altered by acid, but does that mean that it was making things up?  not necessarily.  i can't say for sure, but if it felt real, maybe it was.  maybe you had a moment of clarity where your mind's defenses were down and you were able to see what you had been hiding from.  that's a lot of maybe's, tho.  i imagine that as you continue on this path of healing, and get stronger emotionally, the truth will out.  you'll eventually realize one way or another.  something as horrific as sa when you're a child can easily be too emotionally overwhelming to face.  when you're ready, you'll know.

one day at a time, sweetie.  just go one day at a time.  maybe a 12-step group would be a good choice for you as well.  along with a self-esteem group, it could make a great complimentary support/healing system for you.  besides, you may meet some non-using people, hear what it's like to be living a 'clean' life, ask how they changed by getting clean, if it's worth it, if they like themselves better.  i know i do. 

my final drug of choice that i stopped was cigarettes, last year.   i don't do caffeine (it doesn't suit me, never has) so i'm pretty much completely drug-free now (the occasional sugar rush, well, that still happens).  my life is so different.  i'm so different in ways that i'm very happy about.  i remember when i first stopped drinking, i went to my galpal's house, a huge drinking buddy of mine.  we would get rip-roaring drunk, laugh a lot, then i'd collect my 2 little daughters and drive home.  yeah, that's great parenting!  but, on this occasion, my first visit to her place when i was sober, i almost immediately noticed that i was able to see everything in her place much more clearly than i could ever remember.  it was a revelation!  every other time i'd visited, i would be looking at her and her home thru an alcoholic haze.  suddenly it was gone, and was so completely different.

and, i basically lost her as a friend when i got sober.  she felt like i was judging her if we went out to lunch and she had a couple of beers (i wasn't), but, without me drinking, our relationship was never the same.  i realized later that i'd had several relationships where substances were the glue that kept us together.  it was quite the stunning realization.

but, i found new, non-using friends in groups, and we had just as much fun, laughed just as loudly, enjoyed ourselves at least as much, if not more, than when we'd been using.  no hangovers, no brain damage to worry about, no cops to be concerned with, and my driving skills increased immeasurably.  it was all good.  and, what was able to bloom w/o the substances was my self-esteem, my self-worth, clarity of thought, new and different options and choices, and much better relationships.

so, all good energy to you as you find your way to where you want to go.    i've got faith in you.