Very new to board, complex issue I would like to get input on - Possible trigger

Scorch77 · August 02, 2016, 01:13:51 AM

I need some help. I am married to the woman I love and we have been together for 5 years. In the first couple of years, we engaged, in a consensual fashion, what can be called a "fetishistic" love life. She was open and accommodating for some of that time, and increasingly less interested until she put her foot down and said she wouldn't do it anymore. After that, we had a period of increased levels of sometimes violent conflict, with the resolution that our sex life is much more conventional, and now we are trying to sort through ways to communicate and be healthier in all aspect of our relationship.

Please spare the judgement. I have acknowledged that I was, a best, selfish, and at worst, manipulative and emotionally abusive. She has a history of some other abusive relationships, including her father and an ex boyfriend. My question is essentially, if I am the source of her C-PTSD, does she have any hope of recovery while she is with me? Or does she truly need to strike out on her own and deal with it free of my influence. I am not looking for definitive answers, just strong indicators of successful treatment for her.

It should be said that her stated desire is to be with me and she loves me and is very happy, but I also understand this is a complex issue. I also want to stay with her and make this work, but not at the expense of both of our happiness.

Dee · August 02, 2016, 01:57:17 AM

I think this is something you both need to explore in therapy. It is refreshing that you own it and you sound like you really do care. That goes a long way. If my ex-husband told me he loved me and would do what ever it takes. If he had agreed to go to therapy, he would not be my ex.

Scorch77 · August 02, 2016, 02:25:35 AM

Dee,
thank you for taking the time to reply. We have been to therapy, individually and together, and as long as I am PERFECT, things seem to be fine. I'm a real human being, and I screw up sometimes.

I know that at some point, PTSD sufferers need to take responsibility for their own triggers or reactions. When and how I guess is a topic for therapy.

Three Roses · August 02, 2016, 02:31:42 AM

First of all, welcome! We're glad you're here.

While I won't minimize that you could be part of her history that induced the cptsd, I will go out on a limb and say that if her father abused her, that he is more likely the source of trouble. Cptsd is also known as developmental trauma disorder, in that it interferes with normal childhood development.

And yes - as long as BOTH of you are working on your own issues, individually and together, she can recover. But having had tons of couples' therapy I will say I only saw improvement in my husband after he got his own therapist.

Scorch77 · August 02, 2016, 02:41:25 AM

Three Roses. Thank you for the response.

radical · August 02, 2016, 03:15:57 AM

I couldn't care less what people enjoy doing sexually, as long as it takes place between consenting adults. But it sounds like your sexual activity might have been harmful for your wife. Maybe she wanted to make you happy, but did so at her own expense. She may have thought she could handle it, but found she could not. We can't know because we haven't heard from her.

From what you've written, I would talk with your wife and find out what she needs right now - for example, might she need separate sleeping arrangements?, no touch at all, right down to a pat on the back, unless intitiated by her?, keeping to separate parts of the house or separating completely for a while etc.? It sounds like trauma has been triggered and she might need to explore how she can feel in control of her body, mind and her life.

Does your wife have a therapist she is discussing this with? Could you show her what you have written and the replies, and support her in getting her psychological needs met and feeling safe? You might also benefit from being able to talk openly about your relationship. Maybe once she has clarified what she feels and needs you could have counselling together.

Some questions for you to think about:
Were you manipulative and emotionally abusive? Did you override her feelings to get what you wanted? Did you manipulate her, rather than mutually and freely agreeing to what took place? You mention "violent conflict" but don't elablorate. If you are talking about trying to force BDSM, even it has previously been a consensual pattern - yes that is highly abusive. It doesn't matter what has transpired in the past. No means no - period. (I apologise if I have jumped to a wrong conclusion).

...She was open and accommodating for some of that time,...

This doesn't sound mutual, it suggests she was going along with your desires. You don't say anything about "enjoying". Were you "accomodating" anything for her? Did you even clarify what she did and didn't want and enjoy? We can't know and you don't go into detail and that's your right. A lot has been written about true consent, emotional safety, and kink. Have you explored this issue?

Dee is kinder than me in her response. I hope you can repair your relationship with the woman you love, if that is what you both want.

Scorch77 · August 02, 2016, 04:14:01 AM

Quote from: radical on August 02, 2016, 03:15:57 AM
I couldn't care less what people enjoy doing sexually, as long as it takes place between consenting adults. But it sounds like your sexual activity might have been harmful for your wife. Maybe she wanted to make you happy, but did so at her own expense. She may have thought she could handle it, but found she could not. We can't know because we haven't heard from her.

From what you've written, I would talk with your wife and find out what she needs right now - for example, might she need separate sleeping arrangements?, no touch at all, right down to a pat on the back, unless intitiated by her?, keeping to separate parts of the house or separating completely for a while etc.? It sounds like trauma has been triggered and she might need to explore how she can feel in control of her body, mind and her life.

Does your wife have a therapist she is discussing this with? Could you show her what you have written and the replies, and support her in getting her psychological needs met and feeling safe? You might also benefit from being able to talk openly about your relationship. Maybe once she has clarified what she feels and needs you could have counselling together.

Some questions for you to think about:
Were you manipulative and emotionally abusive? Did you override her feelings to get what you wanted? Did you manipulate her, rather than mutually and freely agreeing to what took place? You mention "violent conflict" but don't elablorate. If you are talking about trying to force BDSM, even it has previously been a consensual pattern - yes that is highly abusive. It doesn't matter what has transpired in the past. No means no - period. (I apologise if I have jumped to a wrong conclusion).

...She was open and accommodating for some of that time,...

This doesn't sound mutual, it suggests she was going along with your desires. You don't say anything about "enjoying". Were you "accomodating" anything for her? Did you even clarify what she did and didn't want and enjoy? We can't know and you don't go into detail and that's your right. A lot has been written about true consent, emotional safety, and kink. Have you explored this issue?

Dee is kinder than me in her response. I hope you can repair your relationship with the woman you love, if that is what you both want.

Radical, thank you for the response.

It was harmful to my wife, but it was not immediately obvious to me that this was happening. There was no violence or unconventional behavior. It involved third parties. The manipulation involves, primarily, an indication that this was a requirement for me sexually, and some references to "other people have done this, and it was pretty awesome".

I have a manipulative streak, there is no doubt about that, its part of upbringing and the person I am . Earlier in life I would have called it sales, but now it's part of the changes I have made because i do want to be better. Emotionally abusive? No, I just made it clear it was what I wanted from anyone I was in a relationship with. There was never any physical coercion or emotional abuse/beration for anything. Violent conflict refers to punching walls, throwing things, breaking glasses, etc. It does not refer to any sexual act, besides what I cringingly refer to as "mild sexual abuse" by my wife.

We are in therapy. Individually and together. She has enunciated what she needs very clearly, but the results are inconsistent when enacted.

...She was open and accommodating for some of that time,...

The progression
* yes, I'll Try anything once..
Sure okay
Ehhhh
* no

I appreciate your response. I will look into "True Consent" and the other issues you have outlined. I am mainly concerned with a the likelihood of a successful therapeutic outcome where we can get back to a state of trust ( and not to resume said behavior, just a very conventional sex life)

radical · August 02, 2016, 05:38:12 AM

Violent conflict refers to punching walls, throwing things, breaking glasses, etc.
You, her or both?

At what point were you aware that she wasn't into it? I'm not talking about "putting her foot down" I'm talking about knowing that she didn't want to have sex involving other people? How long did you continue after that?

It sounds like you are impatient are wondering how long you might have to be accommodating of her trauma reaction, if it is worth the hassle if things go on too long. Maybe I'm reading a subtext that isn't there.

What I'm not hearing is concern for how this has affected her, just concern for how it has affected you. Maybe it's her who has been abusive - punching walls, throwing things etc. If so you certainly have a right to set boundaries and stick to them.

sanmagic7 · August 03, 2016, 03:54:44 PM

you said that you and your wife are in both couples and individual therapy. i think that's a good start.

a personal example: my husband and i, married for 14 yrs.. i am suffering from c-ptsd, brought about by past relationships. however, in our couple relationship, there were things that i went along with from him until i began getting healthier/being able to set boundaries to the point that i began telling him what i didn't want in our relationship anymore.

he argued at first, i kept battling for my rights, began showing him printouts that i found online as to what constitutes a healthy relationship as far as rights and communication are concerned. he has been able to acknowledge what he was doing that was abusive to me, and is in the process, through therapy and self-insight, to make the changes necessary so that we can stay together and have a good relationship for both of us.

was he part of the c-ptsd for me? yes, in the abusive ways he talked to me, treated me at times. was he the original cause? no, but i was struggling with healing from my past issues as long as he was continuing to stay unhealthy in the relationship with me. it was a matter of trust and safety issues - i wasn't able to trust that the verbal abuse wouldn't show itself at times, therefore i didn't feel safe. and, feeling safe is the first level of being able to move into healing other issues. it's pretty difficult to do that if you don't feel safe in the first place.

although no one is going to be perfect at any of this all the time, abuse cannot be allowed, not of any kind. it simply triggers past issues, and the whole ball begins rolling again. it will be to your and your wife's benefit if you can pinpoint what, exactly, is abusive to her. this may be something to explore either just the two of you, or in a couples session. those, then, are the issues you take into your individual therapy to work on, and to eventually resolve so they don't happen anymore. and, in your couples session, guidelines can be set up, as to what she would do if you do, indeed, slip. this way, you both have a map of what's happening, why, and with that, understanding of what triggered the slip in the first place.

these issues are many-layered. i give you a lot of credit for wanting to work on your issues in order to continue to be with your wife in a happy, healthy, safe way. it can be hard work, painful at times, to look at what's going on with you and why. and, may i suggest you drop the idea of 'that's who i am' and change that to 'that's who i was'. 'who i am' is extremely limiting, puts up walls against change, and essentially blocks personal progress.

best to both of you on this journey. i sure do hope it works out for the best for both of you.