How to deal with Outer Critic if there are many critical people

LaurelLeaves · August 14, 2016, 04:53:16 AM

Your Outer Critic tells you not to trust people. And you want to learn to trust people. But what if, in your life, there really are a lot of critical people. Like if your gay, and a lot of people are against gay people... how would you deal with it?

movementforthebetter · August 14, 2016, 02:38:37 PM

It sounds like in this case your OC is looking out for you.

Do you always believe your OC? Some things it says can have value but you may need to examine each criticism and see if the message is something that is still true in the light of logic and fact. In this case probably on a person-by-person basis. Maybe someone has a more effective way but that is how I would start.

I haven't done much OC work. Been dealing with the ICr first for now.

Sienna · August 14, 2016, 06:35:30 PM

Laurel leaves,
That sounds really difficult and annoying
I'm not sure how he would deal with that

I guess that the fact that these people are actually being critical of gay people and it's their right in front of your face and in reality that is telling you to not trust them with them finding out that you were gay as they might not respond kindly

I think it comes down to discerning with it it's a flashback bringing the attic forward and all if you are reading reality correctly
Really hard to do it in my opinion
And yes I believe your attitude was trying to protect you from the past repeating again in the present from experiencing memories of the past and from dangerous present time situations and people

Was there someone in your past Heathfield find out what your criticised you for being gay?

Do you think that if these people knew it know you and like you they might not judge you for being gay ?
I understand completely why you wouldn't want to tell them or have them find out.

Finding out that you are okay my challenge their perceptions of what a person who is gay is like what it means to be gay.
They might be surprised that a person they like and think is cool is gay
They might think will people who are gay are not always the stereotype that I have built up in my own head

Are these people who you want to trust you wouldn't mind getting closer to?
Because if so it's really hard when people start acting that way or when you perceive they are acting that way.
I want you to know that I am definitely not saying that it is in in your head!

I'm sorry if that's not very helpful .
It's hard for me to know what to say because I'm not with you to watch this happen when it is happening.
If you like feel free to explain some more .

Oh and PS have you read Pete Walker on the outer critic? You seem to know some about it . If not here is a link :
http://pete-walker.com/pdf/ShrinkingOuterCritic.pdf

LaurelLeaves · August 15, 2016, 06:07:26 PM

Upon reflecting on what Pete Walker says, I might have dealt with the initial feelings toward my outer critic. I'm a Freeze type, which I used to blame it all on other people. "Celebrate Diversity" only meant celebrating people like ME. Now that I have a healthier outlook on different types of people, my inner critic is speaking up that, saying I'm not good enough.

Still, it is all of societies fault... this institutionalized oppression against people like me. I can't point to one person and blame them, because it is all of them together.

I know that coming out will help change people opinions of people like me. The only thing is, I will have to brave it when I come out to people who might refuse to understand. That is very triggering. I have C-ptsd because I knew who I was at a young age, and I knew I wasn't allowed to BE.

Yes, I think my OC is protecting me. And I have to do it on a case by case basis. I know about half the people would avoid me, and other half would be nice to me, but "niceness" is not the same thing as feeling that I'm an equal valid person. You can pity a person being how they are, and be nice to them. For every bad comment I get, and evil stare I get, I know that this is just the tip of the iceberg, and most people won't tell how they really feel. My OC tells me this, and calculates the percentage probability that people will think I'm a equal valid person, and finds it quite low. So I am constantly on the defensive.

For example... I have started to have this friend. He is the owner of a ceramics store, and I like doing pottery. But we've crossed the line between me being just another customer, into friendship territory. I'm terrible at making friends, and I don't want to destroy this one. If I come out right away, it could destroy it, because he feels weird out it. But if I don't, and get him to like me well enough, and then come out, it could destroy it because he feels deceived.

Joeybird · October 21, 2016, 01:28:47 AM

My mother was my worst outer critic until she died. I knew that she was wrong about a lot of the things she said, but I also think that somewhere inside me, I still felt guilty.

I have learned to avoid critical people. I also avoid people who tell me I should just 'get over it.' So I've lost a lot of friends. But in the process, I am unearthing more of my true self all the time.

Sienna · October 21, 2016, 04:25:40 PM

Hi Laurel Leaves,

Upon reflecting on what Pete Walker says, I might have dealt with the initial feelings toward my outer critic. I'm a Freeze type, which I used to blame it all on other people. "Celebrate Diversity" only meant celebrating people like ME. Now that I have a healthier outlook on different types of people, my inner critic is speaking up that, saying I'm not good enough.
What a realisation to have. Im sorry that your inner critic is telling you that your are not good enough.
I have heard this is normal..did you know that? -Normal to experience the inner critic being louder when you challenge or when the outer critic begins to shrink.

QuoteStill, it is all of societies fault... this institutionalized oppression against people like me. I can't point to one person and blame them, because it is all of them together.

I know. I personally find it frustrating when you cant blame something on one person /s in particular.
BUT- it is ok to be angry at society- and angry at *these people* who think these things. Your anger is not wrong, it just *is*, though i know it is easy to judge your feelings and to not accept them.

QuoteI know that coming out will help change people opinions of people like me. The only thing is, I will have to brave it when I come out to people who might refuse to understand. That is very triggering. I have C-ptsd because I knew who I was at a young age, and I knew I wasn't allowed to BE.

Before i read your reply, i read what i wrote and the spellings were awful!
Also, more importantly- I read what i wrote, and i didnt write that i understand just how hard it is to do these things. Its not easy. I mean, you might have thought of that already, but its not easy to do. That was my blunder. I hated it when my X would do this and not understand why i couldnt do what he was suggesting.
And i don't think the aim of you telling them *should* be to *change their perceptions / opinions of gay people. It would be nice to just *be* yourself and it makes perfect sense that that is so scary for you and that it would be a trigger.
Such a shame that you were not allowed to just be. I relate to that a lot.

It sounds like you want to be accepted, not just tolerated (people being nice).
You were never allowed to just be, so it makes sense. I hope one day, you will be abel to accept yourself as you are.

QuoteIf I come out right away, it could destroy it, because he feels weird out it. But if I don't, and get him to like me well enough, and then come out, it could destroy it because he feels deceived.

Ooh, thats hard.
I don't know what to recommend.
It might be too soon to tell your friend, but if you invest time into your friendship, then tell him later, and they don't take it well...thats a shame.

I think, that if this person is a real *friend* and a good enough person- that being, a person who just accepts you as you are, then they are a decent person.
It would be such a shame if their *own issue* got in the way

Do think that you are trying to *get him to like you* because, you want to be liked? but also, so that they accept that you are gay?

I think that if it was me, or maybe not..i don't know..i could if i was feeling brave, start up a conversation casually about being gay and see what their views are on it...as in *why* they don't like it..what they would think if they had a friend who they found out was gay...
(if i didnt know already exactly *why* they had an issue with it), but i wouldnt want you to be hurt by doing that...

Don't know if thats helpful or not. what a tricky situation.
I must say..im in this kind of situation with my T. Tell her now or later and invest time and money only to be disappointed = if she rejects me for this info.
I don't know.

LaurelLeaves · October 21, 2016, 11:04:20 PM

Quote from: Sienna on October 21, 2016, 04:25:40 PM
I must say..im in this kind of situation with my T. Tell her now or later and invest time and money only to be disappointed = if she rejects me for this info.
I don't know.

I guess we all have the same quandary in different ways.

I do want to be accepted... not by a lot of people... just by a few in-person friends. I go to a support group; that's as close as I come. Tell you the truth, it feels like my spouse just tolerates me.

Anyway... I guess I just keep on breathing. You do that too!

Jdog · October 21, 2016, 11:48:54 PM

LaurelLeaves-

I am a 57 year old lesbian and understand some of the pain you describe. As I have gotten older, and as some parts of society have started to open up to those not adhering to the heterosexual norm, my life has gotten better. I wish for you to have good friends who love you for who you are and for you to have the courage to wonderful person that you are.

Hang in there, friend.

LaurelLeaves · October 22, 2016, 12:21:43 AM

Quote from: Jdog on October 21, 2016, 11:48:54 PM
Hang in there, friend.

Thank you

Sienna · October 22, 2016, 04:26:22 PM

QuoteI guess we all have the same quandary in different ways.

I guess..So sorry if i jumped in there with something of mine...i just wanted you to know that i can relate to you being unsure of weather to tell your friend or not, but if it was wrong, I'm sorry.

I think its fairly reasonable to want to be accepted by your friends, even if a person does accept themselves. Everyone wants and needs to be loved by others.

Its so sad to hear that you feel your spouse just tolerates you.

What is it that makes you think they do? (You can ignore my question of course if you wish)

Its so great that you joined a group. Has it been helpful at all?
Keeping on breathing is, at times hard, so, good for you for hanging in there,

LaurelLeaves · October 22, 2016, 10:24:51 PM

Quote from: Sienna on October 22, 2016, 04:26:22 PM
I guess..So sorry if i jumped in there with something of mine...i just wanted you to know that i can relate to you being unsure of weather to tell your friend or not, but if it was wrong, I'm sorry.

nothing to be sorry for... I get it.

Quote from: Sienna on October 22, 2016, 04:26:22 PM
Its so sad to hear that you feel your spouse just tolerates you.
What is it that makes you think they do? (You can ignore my question of course if you wish)

He is totally supportive in other ways, but when it comes to being trans... he fights it. He is bisexual, so it's not a sexual thing.

I can understand it, in a way... we all grew up with this message that sex=gender, and just like with childhood trauma, the message soaks into our brains like footprints in wet cement. Even I have internalized trans-phobia... and cis-people, who don't have personal experience with it, don't think it's real.

Angelica · October 30, 2016, 04:04:37 AM

A crazy thing I've learned about life is that what ever you put out there seems to come back at you. I once spent a whole week hiding in the house because I believed every time I left it bad * happened. Then I realized it was really the belief's I was entertaining, was what was making bad * happen.

It seems to me but I'm not living your life, it seems to me to trust yourself and hold your head up. If I were your mom I would say, love yourself, its what we are all here doing our best to do.

Find the beauty in you. Your not a cookie cutter mold of the next guy, but a unique flower of exquisite beauty. You represent your version of life and no one else will express that. And since life is endlessly showing us how sexual energy is in all of life, embrace your own unique version of it don't shame yourself, you are the only one who can be you.

LaurelLeaves · November 01, 2016, 02:23:12 PM

Quote from: Angelica on October 30, 2016, 04:04:37 AM
Your not a cookie cutter mold of the next guy, but a unique flower of exquisite beauty.

A unique flower of exquisite beauty... wow! I don't think anyone's ever described me like that.

I do know what you're saying about whatever you put out there comes back at you. And I know that only a few random people in this world will stare at me and make me uncomfortable in that way, but I wind up being afraid of all people. So ♥♥♥♥ those people who stare... I should concentrate on the ones who make me feel normal.