What do people think...

[meursault]

I really try to write short posts, but I can't seem to do it.  So much stuff is happening in my life right now...  Sorry.

That EMDR guy I saw has really messed me up.  I had made another appointment with him during our one session, don't know why, and emailed to cancel, and tell him what I thought of it all.  The exchange is below.  Am I just some crazy broken pathology?  I don't understand how it was alright to do that.  Am I just some difficult, non-compliant freak of nature who is so insane I don't understand anything?  This was at a place specifically devoted to trauma, PTSD, and c-PTSD, and I don't understand how what he did was at all acceptable.  I sort of feel guilty that I'm being mean and vicious with my email below.

What do others think?  I feel like I'm basically being gaslighted by therapists right now.  Last one trying to make me feel like I was being unreasonable for expecting her to read my emails even though our arrangement was that I could email, and she even solicited them, and now this.  It's like they both are acting like I'm just emotionally damaged and irrational.  Sure, I need to learn how to deal with stuff better (coping), that's why I'm there, but I've just found myself lost in a place where it feels like I'm being told my interpretation of reality is wrong, and I'm crazy for having a problem.  Am I coming across as crazy with this email I sent?  And am I wrong for thinking of this as gaslighting?  His response of "miscommunication" moved the goalposts, and minimized, and completely neutralized my problem by essentially saying: "You didn't understand."  I think that's gaslighting as well.

I am only two months from my trial about my Dad's death.  I really need some support, yet these therapists are the biggest destabilizers  in my life.  I'm completely in crisis.

Meursault
--------------------------
[EMDR Guy],

I'd like to cancel my appointment for [Date].

I'm extremely unimpressed with your lack of care and professionalism during my consultation last [Date]. The entire experience was psychologically overwhelming, and I feel you failed to even make the most basic assessments before destabilizing me with bilateral stimulation. As that was only our first meeting, and you had no idea of the details of my experience, my reactions, or how well I am resourced, that was recklessness bordering on negligent.

You did more of the bilateral stimulation of EMDR in one forty-five minute period, on our first introduction, than my last therapist thought safe after months of knowing me, knowing details of my trauma, and knowing how I respond. You utterly failed to properly follow EMDR protocol. You had no apparent concern with overwhelming me, or concerns of my safety or stability.

I have been so severely destabilized and activated, and I can't yet seem to find any way back. From that experience, I have called crisis lines several times, slept little, found myself mindlessly standing in traffic in a dissociative state, and straining relationships in a state of disintegration, dissociation and panic. I consider your approach unsafe and harmful.

I was also disturbed by your dishonesty. You told me you knew my therapist, [Mrs. Awesome Therapist] – not knew of her, but knew her – even giving your personal opinion on her expertise.  However, she has told me she doesn't believe she has ever even spoken to you. Dishonesty is inherently manipulative, which is inherently abusive in a therapeutic environment.

I really don't see how you could excuse this behaviour. I'll anticipate your response here with an analogy: If I told you I knew Mick Jagger, I couldn't then claim that I was being honest when I actually meant I knew OF him, or ABOUT him.

Your repeated mentioning of bringing her into sessions with you and I (stating you do that all the time), and directing me to sign a consent with her to be able to communicate with you doesn't add anything positive to my interpretations of your intent.  Insisting you'd rather talk to her about my issues so I don't become distraught, directly conflicts with you immediately failing to follow EMDR protocol and overwhelming me.  To me, it seemed like I was being used as an opportunity for you to demonstrate your ability clinically to her (courting her for potential employment?).  The workers at the Suicide Hotline thought it appeared even more "creepy".

So, your dishonesty, recklessness, and disregard for my safety or stability leads me to believe you would be entirely unhelpful, and likely harmful to any recovery efforts I attempt. I am scrambling constantly to survive from that experience, can't seem to find any way of restabilizing, and am extremely volatile with suicidal thinking. Nothing seems to be working.  I have basically been activated to such a severe extent, I have no ability to get out of it.

Thank you for your time, I suppose, and I hope you take the time to reflect on improving some fundamental deficiencies in your therapeutic approach.  Perhaps there is someone else at [Trauma Centre] whom I could find more helpful in the future,

[Meursault]

PS.  I should also note that although you said the introductory session was only $65, future sessions would be $130/hr, despite the next session being scheduled for weekday daytime.  Your website says sessions at that time are $115/hr.  I will assume that was simply an oversight on your part, but you should more clearly communicate your payment arrangements to clients in the future to avoid confusion or misrepresentation.  It is more professional, and less prone to abuse to know and communicate these financial details especially when dealing with populations who may have trouble advocating for themselves.
--------------------------
[His Response:]

Dear [Meursault],

Thank you for your feedback and I am truly sorry for any miscommunication between us.
As we won't be able to work together so I will reimburse you for the amount you paid for initial meeting. I will send you the amount by a cheque or interact money transfer.
I wish you the best in your healing process and again I am truly sorry for any miscommunication.

Warm Regards
[EMDR Guy]
--------------------------
[I responded:]

[EMDR Guy],

That you are viewing this as a miscommunication, when you were clearly being reckless in your failure to follow safe and established protocols regarding EMDR, doesn't give me any confidence you are aware of your own failing here.  It disturbs me for the sake of future clients, and really think you need to revisit how to conduct therapy safely, openly, respectfully, and honestly through whatever institution you received your training.  A bit harsh of me, I realize, but I think accurate.

I'm not seeing how miscommunication was the issue here at all, actually.  But if there was something you communicated in error, you should realize that making yourself understood clearly and concisely is part of your job, and failing to do so can easily exacerbate clients who are already overwhelmed with the chaos of trauma.

Don't worry about reimbursing me, as I have already forwarded the receipt for tax purposes.

[Meursault]

[Dutch Uncle]

 

What do others think?  I feel like I'm basically being gaslighted by therapists right now.

I get the same impression.

His response of "miscommunication" moved the goalposts, and minimized, and completely neutralized my problem by essentially saying: "You didn't understand."  I think that's gaslighting as well.

Spot on, IMHO.

Am I coming across as crazy with this email I sent?

Far from it. You're being rather clear, straightforward and to the point.

Am I just some difficult, non-compliant freak of nature who is so insane I don't understand anything?  This was at a place specifically devoted to trauma, PTSD, and c-PTSD, and I don't understand how what he did was at all acceptable.  I sort of feel guilty that I'm being mean and vicious with my email below.

Confrontational, yes, but with every right and reason for it. Not mean or vicious. You're being factual. So I give a  for that.

[I responded:]
[EMDR Guy],
[...]
Don't worry about reimbursing me, as I have already forwarded the receipt for tax purposes.

Probably the best you could have done, also in the light of the complaint you filed. This way he can't weasel his way out with having 'reimbursed' you. Keep the check, just don't cash it. You can always hand it over to any investigating board in the future.
As long as you don't cash it, you have not actually accepted it.


Dutch.

[sanmagic7]

hey, meursault,

you seem to have become quite therapy-wise, and for that i am extremely happy for you.  being able to recognize what's right and what's wrong during a session is profoundly valuable, to my mind. 

what i'm not happy about is that you got screwed over again by an incompetent, one who's supposedly trained in trauma therapy.  someone else on this forum posted about how it's taken months of exploration with his(?) emdr therapist and the bi-lateral stimulation (bls) hadn't even started, how the therapist expressly explained that going slow was crucial because of the possibility of re-traumatization.  which is what sounds like happened to you. 

i'm glad you made it through, and are here to talk about it.  this may be a reportable offense to the governing agency for therapists where you are.  something to think about.  'miscommunication' sounds to me like a 'covering my deleted' word. Moderator action: Please do mind your language.  i'm really sorry for your experience.  truly sorry.  it shouldn't have happened - and i use that word 'should' as exactly what it is, it's shameful that it did happen.  like d.u. said, keep everything, including phone records, if possible, to those crisis lines in case you eventually do decide to report.  that person is a danger to people seeking help.  once again, glad you're here. 

[radical]

Hey Meursault,

What are this person's professional qualifications?

In my country 'therapist' can cover anything from no qualifications to clincial psychologist/psychiatrist and everything in between.  There are many shysters, especially since degrees, diplomas, etc. can be bought after a few days "training".  This is a specialist field.  I'm not saying that the qualification s are the only important factor, but professional bodies at least keep out the un-or-underqualified scammers.

You are not off in your interpretation of this behaviour.  I'm really sorry you've had this experience.  Is cost an issue in regard to the level of expertise you are able to afford?  (I have no idea of reasonable costs in any country outside of my own)

[meursault]

This guy is a registered social worker, a master of social work, and a doctor of psychology candidate.  He is also a national speaker according to one website.  Registered EMDR therapist, all sorts of stuff.

I saw my good therapist today, and she basically pointed out from his response that he probably can't admit to any fault for anything, and like many normal doctors, basically has a god complex.  I think he just beats people down to make himself feel superior.  If you ask me, he's more damaged psychologically than me!  Good therapist thought what I wrote was good, and said she was impressed with me for calling him on the "miscommunication" comment, as he was attempting to deflect fault onto me with it.

I was feeling the best I have in two weeks after seeing her today.  Half an hour my Mom called, and I'm back in bad shape.

Meursault

[radical]

Sorry you are feeling bad again after your mother's call.

Social work is a completely different field.  The only relevant qualification he appears to have is the emdr training, which could have been a two-week course.  Social workers need to retrain to become psychotherapists.  Has he done so?

Also, undertaking a PhD is not the same as clinical training.  His thesis could be about blink rates in different light settings.  Websites are not impartial, they are often tantamount to advertising.  What professional body does he belong to?

Sorry, this kind of thing makes me furious. 

[sanmagic7]

sometimes the more degrees a person has, the less focused on the client's well-being.  in the u.s., the MSW degree is one of the best to get if going into the therapy arena.  that's what i have, and i also had to take a 4-hr. exam to be certified a therapist, as well as 3000 hrs. of supervision.  to become an emdr therapist, i had to additionally attend 2 weekend long training sessions, each a year apart.  in between, again, supervised.  i also belong to an online emdr community where only emdr therapists are allowed to belong (my credentials were checked before i was able to come aboard) where therapists continually ask for help with clients.  they are some of the most caring, concerned therapists i've ever come across.

if this 'therapist' was part of a trauma clinic, his degrees/training would have been checked out.  that doesn't mean, however, that he's any good as a therapist.  it only shows that he has the credentials.  this infuriates me as well, radical, not only because of what happened to meursault (like i said before, shameful) but because it causes so much distrust of therapy and therapists as a whole.  this deleted and others like him throw a toxic shadow over a profession that has as its #1 rule 'first, do no harm'. Moderator action: Please do mind your language.

it's clear to me that he didn't take that rule to heart, and meursault, i agree with your therapist about the use of the word 'miscommunication'.  gross misconduct, in my opinion.  i also agree with radical that a person's website is often self-serving.   just because credentials, letters after your name, and speaking engagements are promoted often has nothing to do with a person's ability to provide concerned, helpful therapy.

i am very glad, meursault, that you have such a wonderful regular therapist to help you through this, and terribly sorry that your mother's call sent you spinning.   it's terrible how quickly these things can turn around.  have you considered no contact with your mother?  at least for a while - it just doesn't sound like she's real healthy for you right now.   just my thoughts and opinions.   best to you, as always.

[meursault]

He is trying for his doctorate in clinical psychology, I'm pretty sure.  Looked again too, and it's registered social worker, and MMFT.  Regardless, I have never been one to give a crap about accreditation.  On paper, though, he's not just a quack.  Technically, he has adequate professional credentials. 

I was able to see a good counsellor through a crisis initiated brief treatment setup years ago.  Wished it could have lasted longer, but I got TONS out of him.  More than everyone else combined except current good therapist.  Saw him 12 times, IIRC.  And again much later a few more times.  He had been a cop and then changed careers.  I remember an exchange with him something like this (sort half verbatim):

Me: As far as I'm concerned your whole field is still so primitive it's barely functional.  Mostly they stick an SSRI in a shotgun and point it at your head and hope.  When that doesn't work, they keep changing the shell gauge until they decide it's your fault for not being shot right.

Him (laughing): No, first they press the second trigger to fire the second barrel.  When I first got into this I was scared.  What if I wasn't any good?  What if I hurt someone?  What if I screwed up?  It only took me about two weeks of working with clients and hearing their horror stories to realize I could probably actively try to get them to commit suicide and I'd still be better than half the therapists out there.

He was awesome.

I tried getting away from my Mom for many years after I grew up.  My Dad would always undermine any attempts with other jobs etc., and guilt me into coming back.  He'd call me up every couple of weeks and talk about what a mistake I was making, and the company would go under, and I'd lose my job, and never amount to anything like that.  Stuff like that.  I'd start to get so anxious about making mistakes at the job I'd end up quitting.  Always lots of pressure to destabilize me from my Dad and sisters, just to keep the family unit functioning in all its dysfunctional ways.  He used to happily tell me he was glad I was around because then my Mom took it out on me instead of him.  Drilled into me how you never turn your back on family.  I see now he was doing that so I would always be there to look after him with my Mom.  Broken down so I couldn't function in the world properly, guilt-tripped, and brought back in just so the stability of the family system wasn't affected.  My own decisions, I suppose, but abused into them.

Don't really want to get into why I don't do NC with my Mom now that my Dad's dead.  Suffice it to say that currently, it would be extremely dangerous to me and cause all sorts of damage in my life.

Meursault

[radical]

This is a sensitive subject for me because I was severely abused in "psychotherapy" and it pretty much finished me off as far as having any kind of normal life is concerned.

The abuser concerned did have Dr in front of his name.  I wasn't suggesting that academic qualifications per se are the most important thing.  However, I believe that extensive and up-to-date training in the practice of psychotherapy, and if treating trauma, specialist training in trauma and recovery is essential.  Amongst practitioners in my country, this the exception rather than the rule.  It's no guarantee, by itself, and doesn't address the personal factors that can make a therapist great or dreadful, but at least it entails a demonstrated level of knowledge, and the ability to discern some of the things that should never be said or done.  There are gifted psychotherapists who don't have this specialised training but who have exceptional personal qualities, such as empathy, integrity and self-knowledge, and who have picked up a lot of knowledge and skills along the way.  By the same token, I suspect that if it was legal and practical, there would be the odd gifted amateur orthopaedic surgeon who could out-perform many of those who have passed the requisite exams.  Equally, some psychotherapists  with the worst reputations are the most technically qualified.

I'm trained in social work.  In my country the skills are very different to those required by psychotherapists, they are two different jobs.

I think you have done brilliantly by yourself and on behalf of others who aren't able to stand up for themselves in this kind of situation, Meursault.  I really wish you hadn't had to.

[meursault]

That's mostly why I did it, and complained to a couple of his regulatory bodies.  I can advocate for myself to some degree, and I have the support of my good therapist.  What if someone else goes to him, at the end of their rope, with no supports at all, and he does that?

If they try to get help saying he is damaging them, they won't be believed without some history in his file of malfeasance.  I am dreading possible fallout or attack for complaining, but I think it's the right thing to do. To my mind, complaining is so someone in the future can say "See, this has happened before" if necessary.  I'm in a pretty small city, and if it's known I complained, it's possible other therapists would refuse to see me, so I'm kind of worried.  But oh well.  The cost of doing the right thing is always worth paying.  Something I believe, but I really have no evidence for it, and sometimes wish it were otherwise.

At the very least, maybe he will reflect and improve to a degree if he faces some scrutiny.

Meursault

[meursault]

Oh yeah, Sanmagic.  I'm really glad about the good therapist too!  God, I love that woman.  It's all attachment based therapy with her, and I just feel warm, fuzzy, tender love for her.  She isn't into hugging, but she gave me one today, and I really needed it.  I think she has such good sense and intuition, she has the control to do just the right thing when needed.  I'm glad I'm back with her.  She has such amazing personal control, boundary control, openness, calmness, gentleness, and consistency she is the first person who has felt safe enough to get into details with of my Mom and what it's done to me.  I think she's the first woman I've ever felt safe with at all at a fundamental level.

I said one time: "It's weird how important you are to me, since I hardly know anything about you.  You're probably a real pain in the deleted in real life."  She said "Yeah, I'm probably a real deleted"  Moderator action: Please do mind your language. With all the seriousness of therapy, I can still joke around with her like I'm an equal.

I was a wreck today, and we still both laughed quite a bit.  When the session ended she stood up and whipped out her hand for my money, but it was kind of awkwardly demanding since I had reached into my pocket for something else.  She was just reaching, thinking I was getting money.  I said "Holy, lady!  Just simmer down there!" and she laughed really openly and honestly.

Emotionally, it's like I come to her, and she holds and soothes the little boys in me as they scream and thrash around and shake in terror.   Eventually, I suppose, I'll be able to do that alone.

Meursault

[sanmagic7]

yeah, a good therapist is gold.  so glad you're back with her and she's been there for you through this.  and i'm glad you made the complaints against him.  i believe, as you do, that they are for the future as well as for now.  they do help give a history if anyone else has a problem.  and, wow! how wonderful that you were able to do that at all, and in such a short time!  good for you, meursault!

i, too, had a horrible therapist, my first one, a woman, who was so ethically twisted and boundary-less that i ended up with horrible anxiety and depression because of the 8 yrs. i spent with her.  i didn't have them before.  i was vulnerable, newly in recovery for substances, and she took full advantage of me, having me (and my husband as well) as clients, as friends (she and i were 'best' friends for a spell, even going away together for weekends - no sex involved, but we were that close as friends) and i was also her employee.  what a tangled web - it took my going to college to become a therapist to learn that what she was doing with me was wrong, took over a year to untangle myself from all those levels of 'intimacy' i had with her, and took another 8 yrs. before i was emotionally able to report her.  so, kudos to you, meursault.

and, radical, i can totally relate about how troubling a bad therapeutic relationship can be.  the best thing she taught me was how not to be a therapist.  and, in the u.s., getting a bachelor's degree in social work is for becoming a social worker - absolutely a different profession from therapy.  but the master's degree usually incorporates clinical elements, preparing the student for being a psychotherapist.  i don't know why they have it like that.  it does seem weird. 

[radical]

Great work, both of you.

I think incompetence and lack of ethics in a therapist is extremely serious.  Even where it is not destructive for the client in the long term, the therapist needs to reflect and up their game, hopefully do some therapy of their own.  In serious cases it costs lives.  When I think of the people on this site and all we've been through.... bad therapy is like a drunk surgeon, on a good day with an uncomplicated case they might not do too much harm.  with a serious complicated case it can be a disaster.

My experience was severe abuse, purportedly as treatment for abuse.  Other patients suicided.  I was tied up in disciplinary and legal action for ten years, along with two others.  We were vilified and accused of everything under the sun.  So I do know the courage required, and the power and credibility imbalance involved in making a complaint.  Good on both of you, I know you've done something important for other vulnerable people.

I also have a therapist who is gold.  I don't know where I would be without her.  I must have been a nightmare with my problems with trust and severe complications caused by abuse in therapy, but she has hung in with me.  I'm very lucky.

(I didn't realise an MSW included therapy training in the US, or that there was such a thing as a PhD in clinical psychology - different system, different countries)

[meursault]

That sounds like a VERY twisted relationship, Sanmagic.  Wow.  Lots of awful people out there.  I can't imagine how hard all that must have been to untangle.

Just as I'm writing this, I received an "e-transfer" from that therapist, reimbursing my money.  I'm completely overwhelmed and panicky now!!!  I'm losing my mind.  I sent this:

[EMDR Guy] et al.,

I had indicated I did not wish to be reimbursed.  I just received some e-transfer email from your organization.  I wouldn't know what to do with an "e-transfer" even if I wanted it.  This is another failure to listen or respect my wishes.

Please don't contact me again.  I feel I just made my first steps getting back on my feet seeing my regular therapist yesterday, and now I am immediately back in a panic.  This just feels like I am being disregarded and overpowered again.

Can you PLEASE stop it and not contact me again.  Your lack of professionalism and awareness is appalling.

[Meursault]

On a related note.  This exchange with him makes me realize something.  Everyone in my family is quite intelligent, and I'm the youngest.  I think I learned how to speak very concisely, and not overgeneralize, overstate, or commit other obvious fallacies in my communication.  I wasn't able to protect myself physically, and couldn't appeal to compassion or sympathy, but could sometimes defend myself intellectually while being abused.  I'm probably really annoying in an argument!  I had to "out-logic" people who were more educated, more experienced, and had more maturity and power than me, all while under attack in an environment where I was being degraded emotionally, ridiculed as being stupid, fat, ugly, told my fundamental nature was horrible, disgusting, and monstrous, and explicitly threatened with abandonment, humiliation, violence, death, sexual assault, jail and castration.  I think five year old me did pretty awesome, considering!  Maybe that's why I like Zen koans.

The father part of me is going to take that boy out for a pancake breakfast!  What's the sound of one hand clapping?  I don't care, pass the syrup.

Meursault

[sanmagic7]

you tell 'em, meursault!  deleted!  pardon my language. Moderator action: Yes, please do mind your language  by the by, i wouldn't know what to do with an e-transfer, either! 

as it turns out, the guy didn't overpower you at all, because you turned the tables on him in no uncertain terms.  is it possible to send an email about this to his clinic - the place where he works?  i know you said that you reported him to the authorities, but his place of employment might be interested to know what's gone on with this guy - in several different ways! 

i'm just so sorry that you had to go thru this with him.  and radical, same for you and what you experienced.  i absolutely hate it!  here's to better therapists in all our futures!