i goofed and i'm sorry

[sanmagic7]

it was brought to my attention that i was remiss in using crass words with *** in them.  first, i want to apologize.  i'd seen this used in many posts and thought it was acceptable.  i'm really sorry if i offended anyone or caused anyone pain.  neither was ever my intention.

second, after i read the message i received, my little me wanted to hang her head in shame, feel completely unredeemable, cry, and go hide somewhere until she believed she had felt guilty long enough and badly enough.  what i did, what i've been reading others are doing, was began talking to her from my adult me.  i told her she made a mistake, that's all, that she needed to apologize for her mistake in case she had caused any hurt, and that she was still ok as a person.  i gave her a big hug (used a pillow), and knew i also needed to write about it.  and that's what i'm doing.

that little me was so sensitive to displeasing my dad, she would ache about it for days until there would be some sign from him that everything was again ok.  i want to do for her now what wasn't available to her then.  this, altho it's been discussed a lot, is a relatively new concept for my consciousness to wrap itself around.  i feel like i'm learning something brand new here, not only mentally, but emotionally as well.

so, even though progress is slow at times, it keeps coming at me, when i least expect it.  this was a bonus for me - i don't know that i would've 'gotten' this realization without this happening.  thank you to this forum, the moderators, and everyone here who has enabled me to continue to grow and heal.  and, again, i'm very sorry if my words disturbed anyone - it won't happen again.

[Sandstone]

I think we all know you wouldn't mean to offend anyone intentionally Sanmagic 
That said, i have thought one of my posts may be really offensive as i swore a lot in it. I thought it was ok to vent where i did and that i would be told if its too much.    I didnt see your post but i think i will delete mine.
Again big  to you.

[movementforthebetter]

No appology needed, sanmagic7.

Two thoughts about this:

1) are moderators reading all posts looking for foul language, or only only if there is a flagged post? I thought there might be a filter that automatically catches censored words.

2) to be totally clear, spelling something like h@ppy is not allowed, and it has to be all hashed up? To me, foul language is far less triggering than the intent behind it, and I use the full range of expression, but I realize some folks may be more sensitive. If we aren't directing the words at people, they are just words. I'm sure we all know far more offensive words that aren't swears, but used with bad intent, hurt a lot more.

[sanmagic7]

thanks to both of you, sandstone and mftb.  i don't know how this deletion process goes, to be perfectly honest.  i know that the rules say no swears, but i've seen several even today that were just out there, so i'm a bit confused.  at any rate, i was substituting letters with ***, and apparently that's not okay.  it was in a response to another's post, who had also used swear words, and we both got edited.  so, i can't answer the question of what's all right and what isn't, or how it's discovered.

i've also done this before in many other posts, and it's never been mentioned to me.  again, i thought it was ok to do it the way i was doing it.   so, we live and learn, but it did give me an opportunity to speak with my little me, who was raising her devastated head.  it was good for me, as i said, bringing this concept to my consciousness.  for that i'm grateful.

[mourningdove]

I think that the site has a program that automatically turns bad, vile, evil, naughty cuss words into asterisks, but sometimes they slip through the cracks.

Mine may be a minority opinion here, but I get triggered by repression, so I'm glad when I see cuss words slip past the censors.

Did you say the horrible, horrible "a" word that is synonymous with "posterior"? Is that what this is about? Because if so, I think the whole thing is silly.

You didn't do anything wrong, sanmagic.

edit: And yeah, there were discussions on the site in the past in which it was decided that not even symbols could be used in place of cuss words, because heaven forfend...

[movementforthebetter]

Yeah, I seriously can't believe this is a thing. I have heard 3 swears on Canadian local tv in the last 10 minutes. All worse than the one you may have said. Give your inner child a hug for me, too! 

[sanmagic7]

thanks for weighing in, mourningdove.  no, actually what i wrote is a word that rhymes with sick, and put an * where the 'i' would be.  and then, today, i saw a post where someone wrote not only the exact word  i was attempting to be careful with, but another one that also rhymes with sick.  so, like i said, i'm confused.  unless someone on that thread got upset and flagged our discussion so the moderators would check it out.  i seem to remember reading in the rules that moderators aren't patrolling for bad language, per se, but are glad of help if someone else notices it.   but, maybe i'm wrong. 

i really appreciate all your support on this.  i guess bad language is something that could very well be upsetting to some people, and i'll respect this from now on wholeheartedly.  i really do have a potty mouth at times, and it doesn't hurt for me to watch my choices of words.  but, i don't want to trigger you either, mourningdove, by repressing my language on this forum, so just know that in my heart the words are actually there!   lol!!!

i've seen sites/comment sections where swear words are turned into that mishmash you're talking about.  i really haven't seen that here, because, like i said, i've seen the * as substitutes for letters lots of times.  i don't want to get banned from here, though, i really don't.  so, i'm not complaining.  i was just surprised.

and, i gave her a big hug for you, mftb.  thank you for that.  you all are the best.  she and i are both smiling with relief, gratitude, and plain ol' happiness.  thanks - you made my day!

[mourningdove]

no, actually what i wrote is a word that rhymes with sick, and put an * where the 'i' would be. 

Oh. Well that's completely different! Just kidding; you still didn't do anything wrong!!!

but, i don't want to trigger you either, mourningdove, by repressing my language on this forum, so just know that in my heart the words are actually there!   lol!!!

Yay Thanks, sanmagic.

[Dutch Uncle]

Thread locked for multiple breaches of the Guidelines for All Members and Guests

• Please know that posts will be edited or removed which include:
     •   any discussion of moderating decisions (these are to be taken up by PM with the Moderating Team or Site manager);
• continuous swearing

Let it be clear that the guideline on swearing:

Refrain from offensive language. Swearing is not permitted at OOTS because many of our members were traumatized by abuse which involved aggressive, threatening and/or demeaning language.  Please be considerate and use a symbol mash (e.g., %^&$) instead. A filter has been added to replace offensive words with an *.

does include attempts to circumvent/by pass the swear-filter by substituting some letters with asterisks yourself, or as has been mentioned in this thread by typing swearwords with alternative characters like in h@ppy. If you feel the need to get creative with spelling in order to avoid swearing and or the auto-censor, you are likely to be still swearing. Similarly if you make a post and see a word has been auto-censored by the swear-filter, and it has been substituted by a single asterisk, it's best to edit the word out yourself and/or replace it with a less offensive term.

[Kizzie]

Morning everyone    I apologize for my late post to this discussion  about swearing, but I do want to respond.

I am all for discussions like this provided they are respectful and the goal is to do the best that we can for the overall community.  There is nothing wrong with swearing per se and we are not in any bad or shameful because we swear, in fact it may even be helpful in getting to that anger we need to re-ignite our self-protective instincts.  The real question is though, is it appropriate here? Several months back we had a discussion here about swearing and as a community the decision was made to disallow it outright  because it is triggering for so many. As a compromise it was decided to allow the use of the symbol mash.  The current guideline does not say the "judicious" or "sparing" use of the symbol mash, but perhaps it should.  It also does not say anything about what exactly a symbol mash is, again perhaps it should.  Here is what I am recommending re editing the guideline regarding offensive language:

Do not use offensive and/or vulgar language. The use of swear words is not permitted at OOTS because many of our members were traumatized by abuse which involved aggressive, threatening and/or demeaning language.  Please be considerate and use a symbol mash (e.g., %^&$) instead and this only sparingly in consideration of other members.  Please note that symbol mash does not include letters (e.g., (f**k), but symbols only (i.e., &^%$).  While a filter has been added to replace offensive words with an "*" if a word does slip by, please report the post and it will be edited accordingly and the word added to the filter. If words are used that have negative connotations (e.g.,  "tits" versus "breasts") or are derogatory in some fashion, a moderator may edit your post.

Folks, none of us grew up in respectful, positive and/or open environment.   However, we have the opportunity here at OOTS to change that, to move forward in recovery.  Let's agree that mistakes have been made but that this is normal, it is human and none of us need to be perfect anymore. The really important part here is move on in a respectful, considerate manner. I have unlocked the thread and invite members to weigh in on the suggested changes to our guidelines.   

(I will also respond to the PMs I received about this matter privately rather than take them up on the board.)

Thanks all!

[Dutch Uncle]

I stand corrected.

[movementforthebetter]

I appreciate the chance to discuss this further and I hope much of the conversation can be public but respect that some members may not wish to do so.

For my part, I am one of the people who was abused by/with swear words. But I was also abused many other words, words like stupid, silly, whiny, faker, grandma, crocodile tears, liar, selfish, blossom... Etc. Etc.

I have seen specifically awful derogatory words used in the posts of others, yet they are not swears. How do we determine what words are too dangerous to permit and what words are fine?

My point is that the words above would never be censored yet they were far more damaging to me than swear words. Most were used in conjunction with swears to up the impact, but that just makes the swears adjectives. I don't expect the world to know my triggers. I am working to function better in it. And I would hope in traveling my own healing route that I would not have to censor myself for others, especially when I would never expect the same of them.

If the choice is made that all swear words are forbidden, that's fine. I will happily edit any posts I may have crossed the line with. But I will also start reporting and responding to offensive language in other posts which up til now I had let slide. Because if we are truly taking abuse through language seriously here, the existing guidelines don't go far enough.

Couldn't we just request members use a trigger warning for posts with potentially offensive language?

Thanks for opening this up again. I am passionate about writing and would hate to see people limited by an arbitrary rule, which is why I took the time to explain my thinking here.

[mourningdove]

[written before MFTB's post]

I think that first it needs to be acknowledged that no one in this thread actually did violate the guidelines.

1. No one actually used off-color language in this thread. People only talked *about* the use of off-color language, and that is not the same thing.

2. No one actually questioned moderation decisions. No one actually questioned the warning that sanmagic got (aside from her understandable concern that she might have been singled out).

I think the above points are important to acknowledge given that this thread was initially locked because of these alleged violations of the guidelines.

While I'm here, I would like to say that I'm sorry if I confused anyone with this:

edit: And yeah, there were discussions on the site in the past in which it was decided that not even symbols could be used in place of cuss words, because heaven forfend...

I had forgotten that the keyboard mash had been deemed permissible, and I was referring to recognizable "swear" words altered with symbols.

In response to Kizzie's post, I don't really see the need to use keyboard mash judiciously. If someone feels the need to mash, the underlying meaning could be the lyrics to "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" for all anyone knows, so why make the already strict guidelines even more strict by cautioning moderation in keyboard mashing? I do agree, however, that "keyboard mash" ought to be defined in the guidelines if that is the only way that members are allowed to express the inexpressible.

Anyway, I was/am very triggered by this thread having been locked. No one on this thread did anything wrong, and no one broke the guidelines.

[Three Roses]

I bristle when confronted with repression but also insensitivity. A person may well want to ask themselves why they're using a symbol in place of a word; if they're afraid of offending, why not use a different word?

I swear like a sailor irl, as I've said before (y'alls language would have to go a few miles further to offend me), but the name calling has. Using a denigrating euphemism to describe someone sets yourself above them; it states clearly that you think of yourself as "better-than". Which is the global justification for all abuse, at its root.

And yet, I still call names.

I may not agree with what is said but I'll defend your right to say it. We are all here to learn and grow, and that takes honesty - honest acknowledgement of how you're feeling, honestly saying what you think.

My father, who was in fact an actual sailor, and who used the colorful language of one, used to say that people who swore just had smaller vocabularies, and if you wanted to offend someone it would be better to do so with creative flair. In his mind, the best insult left a person confused as to whether they'd actually been insulted.

Maybe we all need to grow thicker skins, and stop focusing on everything that offends us (which can be used as a form of control) and start trying to relate on a more honest level; where you can say how you feel, and I can say what I think, and we can just look at each other and smile.

[mourningdove]

A person may well want to ask themselves why they're using a symbol in place of a word; if they're afraid of offending, why not use a different word?

Aren't we talking about using symbols in place of words that offend people, as per the guidelines? One might want to keyboard mash instead of using a particular word because that way they can express their extreme emotions and still not trigger anyone else and/or break the guidelines.