Meursault's Journal

[radical]

I really like the poem, Meursalult., it appeals to my quirky and sometimes dark, sense of humour.

I take your point that as social beings, we need healing input from outside of ourselves.  It is something I desperately need to work on, as I feel safest when I am alone and tend to respond to pain and fear by isolating.  It is the thing I find hardest, reaching out.

I disagree with your therapist about soothing and compassionate self-talk just being useful as a kind of preventative measure.  What I'm finding is that self-soothing during "artillery strike" can help.  Caregivers soothe their children when they are overwhelmed, and this is internalised, and able to be utilised by those who have experienced "good enough" parenting to mitigate suffering and damage in situations of overwhelming distress, throughout their lives.

Childhood trauma damaged how I relate to myself, and that certainly affects how I relate to others and interpret the behaviour of people around me.  It makes me dangerously vulnerable to external conditions that I cant control, and overreactive to rejection (real and imagined).

So yes, the three things are necessary, self-healing, external healing and bottom-up body work.

[meursault]

I suppose if it's not too bad that could works, but when I am in those intense EFs, there really isn't any meaningful verbal "me".  It's all mammalian brain and no pre-frontal cortex, I suppose.  Probably I need to be more cognisant when I'm not just a flailing wild monkey smashing itself on the bars of its cage!  But in the midst of the really bad stuff, I find words don't really mean anything.  They are just sounds that I recognize but aren't really applicable or comprehensible.  Maybe I'm unusual with that?  I'm not sure...

About the only thing I can actually even remember to do when it's really bad is to reach out for people.  The crisis line etc.  They often ask what I do to calm down, and although there are literally a hundred tings I can think of to do when I'm not in that state, I can't even remember, much less comprehend them.

I think I have a great deal of ambivalence about self-talk.  I was REALLY diligent for years with it.  Daily logs, making lists of things to say, saying positive things to myself in the mirror every morning for years.  Rewarding myself when I caught myself saying something positive.  I put in TONS of effort for years with that CBT stuff, both alone and in groups.  At the end of the day it seemed to bring me so far and no further, and since I was literally being told to "shut up" when I tried to tackle the stuff from my Mom, and receiving constant invalidation about it, the basic ME still sat in my head traumatized and triggered all the time.   I trusted that they knew what they were talking about and I worked hard for a long time on the CBT stuff, but I think I feel kind of betrayed and distrustful about that now, since no-one would even allow me to talk about my Mom.   

I remember sitting in an office crying, after I had first started with inflicting physical damage on myself in 1994.  The psychiatrist argued with me that it was "just the depression" and my Mom was probably a really nice person.  The psychiatrist told me she wouldn't help me unless I took medication saying "well, if you're not going to help yourself, how do you expect anyone else to help?"  When I already knew I needed to find someone with whom I could go through and talk about all the stuff from when I was a kid with.  I remember crying that "no woman loves me.  I've never even had a date", and she grabbed my hand, pulled it toward her and slapped my forearm repeatedly, and loudly said "and now that you've done that, do you think anyone will ever love you?"

I don't know what I'm trying to say.  Self-talk is good, I guess, but I think I have had such abusive treatment from the pros who taught it to me, invalidated by them about the traumatic stuff, and betrayed because I still put my faith in them in desperation, only to find that fundamental sense of "Wrongness' never left me, even though I could have filled books with all the affirmations, thought challenging, graduated exposure goal work, and arguing mistaken beliefs.

It certainly helped me function better, but emotionally, all that stuff was still there, just masked.  Anyhow...

Meursault

[radical]

I've just realised.  Self talk only started working when I removed all abusive people from my life.  Never did a thing before.
I don't know if this is relevant to you.  I only say things i actually believe.  In the beginning that was so, little it was ridiculous.
There was a song on the radio and the part "something good will come my way" in the chorus got stuck in my mind.  I tried to use the mind worm positively, but as soon as I stopped paying close attention i found I'd been singing "nothing good will come my way" in my head.

I was had  the lyrics"And it doesn't look good, and I'm feeling like a block of wood" from a song stuck in my mind night and day for about 18 months.

[meursault]

Makes me wonder if that's part of it.  I have never been able to really get away from my family.  I tried several times, but it didn't work.

I tried to be "a good son and brother", so still remained friendly with my sisters.  It wasn't until I finally set good boundaries with my one sister almost two years ago that I easily stopped drinking.  She now doesn't really talk to me, since she could couldn't dominate me.  It was a real eye opener, because how she was acting that led to her not talking to me and vilifying me with extended family was not unusual at all for her.  I had my girlfriend with me and she was shocked at how abusive my sister was.

Any time I'd get away, find some other job, tell myself I'd only interact with family at Christmas, my Dad would start calling me up, undermining me.  He'd tell me how I would get fired, I was wasting my life, I was in a dead end job, the company would go under, that sort of thing, every week or two, and I should come back working with him.  He'd call and laugh, telling me how since it was winter, he could take as many holidays as he wanted, and I was still stuck working every week until I retired.  He would also complain about all the * my Mom was putting him through, making me feel guilty.  And he'd talk about how he was working from 4 am to 10 pm and that sort of thing and how I was lazy for only working 40+ hours a week.  Eventually, I became such a basketcase I found work too anxiety provoking and negative and would quit and go back working with him.

I was almost at the point of being a journeyman electrician, and just quit.  I liked that work.  Now everything is terrible, of course.

I've gotten rid of most of those bad people from my life, but not family.  I still want to get away, but since killing my Dad, how could I?  I don't know if I could from all the guilt for all the damage I've done to my family.

I just kind of realized how manipulated I was by both of my parents for their own needs over the last couple of years.  My Dad knocked my feet from under me, so I would work with him, and be a shield against my Mom.  He told me that directly many times even.  And my Mom likes stomping on everyone.  If she is not in a position of power over someone, she will do whatever she can to weaken them until she is.

This all makes me sad.  I want a life.  I want to heal and be calm and not hate myself and meet someone to love and who loves me.  I want kids and all that stuff.  I hope this legal stuff ends well for me in a couple of weeks.  I want a chance to heal from the cannibalization of my parents, and learn to not continue it myself.

Meursault

[radical]

It's not until I escaped that i realised the powerful effect toxic people had on me.  They made me compulsive in so many ways.  I don't know if my sensitivity makes it worse.
I have my annual meeting with the family at Christmas.  It's my only contact and I'm not even welcome in any genuine way.  If I don't go I lose contact with the few younger ones that I really care for.  I'm keeping it to just three days and not staying with family.  But the effects will still be profound, and take a lot of getting over.

[sanmagic7]

i, too, have found that a more profound sense of clarity, self-care, and self-compassion has happened each time i've gotten myself away from toxic people.  i went nc with my daughter last jan., and, while, it was extremely difficult at first, the longer i've been away from her, eliminated her from my life, the more room i have to breathe.  i haven't talked to my sister in over 25 yrs.  my parents are dead.  my ex, the father of my children who had been a friend since high school, i've also put out of my life last year.  recovery is easier without them

i'm close with my brother and other daughter, both of whom are supportive, kind, and caring toward me.  the rest of family, for me, doesn't come into my life equation anymore.  my hub has lately shown me that he wants to be in my life, and has changed a lot of his behaviors and words, but i was at a point where i was ready for him to go as well.  the farther i've gotten into recovery, the fewer people i allow around me on a regular basis.  and the less stressful my life has become.  i kind of startled myself the other day at realizing how many abusive relationships i've been in with both friends and family.  whew!

you like your present therapist and know she cares about you.  i've had destructive professionals along the way - they're gone with the wind now.  would she steer you wrong about positive self-talk?  does she want the best for you? 

and, there's another way to look at what happened with your dad.  if he was so abusive, maybe you helped rid the rest of your family of a toxic person.  that would be a positive thing, even if they're in denial about it.  you did what you did (i don't know the details) but there's a reason for it that you know about in your heart. 

in recovery, who is it important to put first?  who is the only person we can help?  who's well-being do we need to take care of above everything/everyone else?    this recovery journey is tough, to say the least.  i just think the easier we can make it on ourselves, the better off we become in the long run.  big hug to you.

and good luck to you, radical, over the holidays.  no way to stay in contact with those you care for without having to put yourself through a profoundly neg. experience?  i know this holiday thing is so huge for so many, sometimes as a pos. experience, but i've heard even more stories of how stressful, uncomfortable, and even disturbing it can be.  it's very sad to me.  i hope it goes as smoothly as possible for you.

[radical]

I wonder how common this is with people who have experienced childhood abuse - it taking so long to learn that we are worth better than abuse, and as a result tolerating all kinds of abuse through our lives, not recognising the harm we were sustaining.

I used to pride myself on my tolerance and on being non-judgemental.  They are good qualities, but without boundaries, they can turn you into being open season for abusers, disrespect and danger.  I remember my therapist saying, early on, that I had a very high tolerance for other people's behaviour, no matter the behaviour.    It was enigmatic, I saw it as complimentary because of my belief system, but it troubled me too, and percolated in my mind for a long time. 

I'm sad for myself that I took a huge amount of abuse over time, I didn't protect myself appropriately because I had no internal model.  I hoped people would be kind, and was excessively grateful if and when people were, but i never expected to be respected, this too is a set-up.  It is so corrosive.  I feel sometimes I'm too old to be learning things i should have known when I first started my life out in the world.

[Three Roses]

Radical, I could echo every single thing you said here. Never knew I subscribed to the Repetition Compulsion, haha. I focused on external things and making others happy because that's what I was told to do - put it behind you, put it out of your mind, etc. Well, my mind was moving on but my brain wasn't!

[meursault]

I have always known I would be healthier if I cut my family out of my life.  I think I am regularly beaten down enough I don't have the strength for it.  NOW wouldn't be a good time with my legal stuff, to say the least anyhow!

A few years ago after my drinking got out of control after my Dad's death, I was hanging around with all sorts of terrible people who, in my shock and trauma used me for money, or even their own cheap laughs.

Even last year, I met a woman (just platonic, she was married) and we met up several times over a couple of month.  She constantly wanted to know more about my Dad's death and all my legal woes.  One week I was extremely distraught over it and crying and stuff.  She sent me an email that she is not my therapist, and she really enjoys hearing the details of the accident, but if I expect her to listen to to my emotional turmoil about it, then she doesn't want to be friends.  Basically, she enjoyed being titillated by my trauma, with no concern for me.

My therapist has no problem with self-talk, and actually regularly suggests improving it, and challenging that internalized voice from when I was a kid.  She just understands when overwhelmed, in flashbacks and whatnot, what happens verbally is largely just sounds, since it is that mammalian part of the brain that is in charge, reliving trauma, and words have very little to do with what's happening.  I think she would say the TONE with which I talk to myself in that state is important, but language itself is not really connected.

I always prided myself on being accepting and open-minded, too.  I generally like people, even "bad" people, and tend to give the benefit of the doubt.  A former therapist said something like: "I bet you tend to trust people a lot and let them know far too much about you, and then when they betray that trust, don't want anything to do with them.  That's common with people who have had their boundaries violated."

About my Dad's death.  I KNOW I made the best decision available to me.   He was so completely plastered.  I think he would have died anyhow that evening, whether I drove or not, and maybe he would have killed some kid or family or something.  He was the "good parent", though.  My sisters are just like my Mom in many ways, and belittled him as stupid etc.  He had nowhere to take it out except on me.  He wanted a friend and comrade to support him with the abusiveness of my Mom and sisters, but I was too overwhelmed, so he took out his frustrations on me.  He had a brother and sister as well.  They were they only other people he ever flew into rages with, insulted etc.  Just me, my aunt, and my uncle.  Everyone else he was a drinking jokester with, and very non-confrontational.

Christmas is tough, and I hope yours is not too bad this year, radical!  I think what you say about it being common for those of us with childhood abuse is likely true, too.  My sisters and Mom actually freak out at how unreeasonable I am being if I don't accept abusive behaviour from them.  They are so inured to it, they think it's right and reasonable, and I'm stupid, perverse or being hostile if I challenge it.  They literally CANNOT see how I am worth more than being abused.  To them, threatening me, ridiculing me and dismissing me is healthy and sensible.  No insight into their own behaviour at all.  I think there is a great deal of narcissism there.

Meursault

[meursault]

I think I somehow screwed up here.  I'm not sure how.  I think I must just be crazy.  This stuff I'm going through is completely overwhelming me.

Anyhow, sorry for anything I've done.

Meursault

[Three Roses]

Not sure why I didn't see your post from 11/17 until just now!

You did the right thing, giving your dad a lift when he was too drunk to drive. I'm hoping that this all ends soon and favorably. 

(You haven't done anything wrong) 

[meursault]

Am I just locked in a pattern here?  I'm feeling like everybody everywhere hates me and is disgusted by me, and wants me gone. Am I just interpreting things that way when they're actually untrue?  I'm feeling like everything I say here is stupid and wrong and making everyone mad.  I don't understand anything....

Sorry if I'm a problem.  I'm seeing how not many people have posted the last few days and thinking that's because people are avoiding the site because I am disgusting them too much.  It sounds ridiculous, as if I'd have that impact, but emotionally I'm immersed in that fear right now.

I think I must be crazy.

I'm completely trapped.

Meursault

[radical]

I've never been mad about anything you've posted.  Just so you know, I have occasionally felt angered by posts here, but never by your's.  One thing this site can be good for is honest feedback that we can't necessarily receive or even ask for elsewhere.

Am I just locked in a pattern here?  I'm feeling like everybody everywhere hates me and is disgusted by me, and wants me gone

Boy, do I know that feeling! It is horrible, all consuming.  Sorry you are feeling this.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I feel warm towards you. 

[Three Roses]

Me too.

[sanmagic7]

me, three.  speaking for myself, i have only sparingly posted lately cuz of dealing w/ my own stuff about my friend, and now i'm sick w/ a cold.  but, it has nothing to do with you, meursault.  one day i couldn't even get on this site!  lately i've been sporadic in posting everywhere here.  it's just my gunk getting in the way.  i've never been disgusted by you or your posts.  still with you, even if i don't get here every day.