Being the other woman

[pit_bull]

May be triggering if you are a married woman.

This would also fit in the sexual abuse forum, however I went with emotional abuse.

My very first sexual relationship with a man was when I was a teenager. He was an adult, living with his girlfriend, which I didn't know at the time.

My very last sexual relationship was with a man, significantly older then me, who was and is still married and hid that from me and then lied to me about filing for divorce.

In between those two relationships I had a nine year relationship with my now ex husband, in that relationship I was the other woman to drugs and alcohol.

The first man asked me to live with him after his girlfriend moved out, the last man asked me to marry him before he filed for divorce from his wife.

I was diagnosed with CPTSD 10 years ago after my divorce, I met the last man after my divorce.

I don't ever want to be the other woman again, not just because its emotionally and sexually abusive to me, I recently learned it recreates the FOO role of scapegoat as I get triangulated into someone else's relationship and then become the scapegoat.

I haven't had a healthy relationship with a man yet and now I don't care.

I don't have a lot of hope for having a healthy relationship with a man at this point because of my PTSD, its a mental health disability, and is not expected to improve. Meaning to say its shameful to me, its interfered with my ability to work outside the home since my divorce. I'm also a full time mother to my 16 year old daughter who has substance abuse  and mental health problems of her own. At this point in time the only man I would trust would be a man with a similar condition.

So that's my introductory post. Anybody relate?

[sanmagic7]

been there, done that, and it wasn't good, not for me, not for the man, and not for his wife.  i agree with you that it's an emotionally abusive part to play all the way around.

my heart goes out to you in having to parent a mentally ill, substance-abusing daughter.  that's a tough one at any age, especially without help.  i've been there as well, and found some support through Families Anonymous, a 12-step group that was originally begun by moms with substance-abusing children.  it helps in keeping a distance from the substance abuse itself, and in hating the illness while loving your child.  my daughter also had mental illness problems, was very abusive (i now recognize her as a NPD) and one thing i learned is that, after putting up with it for too many years, abuse is never okay.  not even from the mentally ill.

i'm sure you're doing your best to cope.  my heart is with you.

[pit_bull]

Thank you.

The man and his wife both say they want to divorce but they haven't done it yet. I'm trying to distance myself from the whole thing. I just learned about emotional boundaries a couple of days ago. When the student is ready the teacher will appear.

I also belong to al-anon and it helps. I actually had a break through the other day when I decided to stop throwing out my daughters paraphernalia . She's always going to get more,  unless it's a bong, that I will toss because it could get us evicted.

A former therapist once expressed half jokingly he was concerned I might be raising a narcissist . I've done what I can to intervene. She has her moments but she also goes to church and works on top of going to school . Her drug use concerns me but I know I'm powerless over it.

[sanmagic7]

setting boundaries is always a good thing, for both of you.  the bottom line is that it is your house - you pay the bills - so it's your rules.  the tricky part is having consequences for breaking the rules that you are willing and able to enforce.  it's important not to make idle threats.  you've probably learned all this in al-anon.  glad you found your way there.

the parent-child aspect is always tricky - how much responsibility do you take on for your daughter's behavior?  what's enabling and what is parental tolerance?  does she need to be arrested?  get to be part of the juvie system?  if you can get thrown out of your place for a bong, she must be doing illegal substances.  is it your responsibility as a parent to allow her to do them in your house?

you're right about her paraphernalia out - she will only get more.  but, drug paraphernalia might also be illegal, and you will be responsible for hers.  enabling is a big part in all this, and it's a very difficult role to leave behind.  i don't know if you've ever watched the cable show 'intervention', but these kinds of issues are tackled on the show regularly.  has your daughter been to rehab?  is that an option?  it may not work the first time, nor the fifth nor the tenth, but oftentimes it eventually does work, and the kid's life is saved.  how about therapy for the two of you?  a therapist might help give you some solutions as well as support, at the same time impressing on your daughter how serious this is.   

best to you with this.  oh, and i think distancing yourself from that couple is wise.  they sound like they're into games, not only between themselves, but with others, such as you, as well.  if someone wants a divorce, they get one as soon as possible, especially if both want it.  i hate to see you caught in their tug of war.  you'll always be the biggest loser.  just some thoughts.

[pit_bull]

setting boundaries is always a good thing, for both of you.  the bottom line is that it is your house - you pay the bills - so it's your rules.  the tricky part is having consequences for breaking the rules that you are willing and able to enforce.  it's important not to make idle threats.  you've probably learned all this in al-anon.  glad you found your way there.

Thank you, my ex husband was an addict, he used to come pick our child up from the child care center high where I was doing my practicum and the supervisor referred me to al-anon. Now she's developed her own substance abuse problem.

the parent-child aspect is always tricky - how much responsibility do you take on for your daughter's behavior?  what's enabling and what is parental tolerance?  does she need to be arrested?  get to be part of the juvie system?  if you can get thrown out of your place for a bong, she must be doing illegal substances.  is it your responsibility as a parent to allow her to do them in your house?

I've called the police many times, the last time was when she hopped the balcony after I tossed her bong and her marijuana and her grinder. She has not done anything she could be arrested for yet. She's not allowed to smoke or drink in my apartment and I've been very clear with her. I should have clarified, I found an empty marijuana container and eye drops in her backpack. Up until now I've thrown out everything I've found but I just got sick of it.

you're right about her paraphernalia out - she will only get more.  but, drug paraphernalia might also be illegal, and you will be responsible for hers.  enabling is a big part in all this, and it's a very difficult role to leave behind.  i don't know if you've ever watched the cable show 'intervention', but these kinds of issues are tackled on the show regularly.  has your daughter been to rehab?  is that an option?  it may not work the first time, nor the fifth nor the tenth, but oftentimes it eventually does work, and the kid's life is saved.  how about therapy for the two of you?  a therapist might help give you some solutions as well as support, at the same time impressing on your daughter how serious this is.   

She's not ready for rehab yet. I'm in therapy, we've been to therapy together, and she is going to have her first appointment with a new therapist in a couple of weeks.

best to you with this.  oh, and i think distancing yourself from that couple is wise.  they sound like they're into games, not only between themselves, but with others, such as you, as well.  if someone wants a divorce, they get one as soon as possible, especially if both want it.  i hate to see you caught in their tug of war.  you'll always be the biggest loser.  just some thoughts.

Yes, I've been caught between them for over 4 years. I"m trying to distance myself from him now. I haven't gone no contact yet. My therapist wants me to learn self control so I haven't blocked him yet. I will talk to my therapist on Saturday about what happened this week. The latest thing is my bf accused me of flirting with the audience on a page I manage. I had to ban him and tell the senior admin. Its classic PD behavior. He's demanding an apology from me for emotionally distancing myself from him, and telling me I'm engaging in push/pull behavior, I'm making things up. Its really unpleasant.

[Kizzie]

I don't have a lot of hope for having a healthy relationship with a man at this point because of my PTSD, its a mental health disability, and is not expected to improve.

I'm curious as to what you mean in the above Pit Bull?  Complex PTSD is not necessarily a permanent disability, it does respond to treatment and as we recover we do tend to engage in healthier relationships.  It already sounds like you are practicing self-care, seeing where the problems are in your life, setting boundaries, all of which are important steps in recovery.   So just my two cents here but I wouldn't count out a healthy relationship down the line

[pit_bull]

I don't have a lot of hope for having a healthy relationship with a man at this point because of my PTSD, its a mental health disability, and is not expected to improve.

I'm curious as to what you mean in the above Pit Bull?  Complex PTSD is not necessarily a permanent disability, it does respond to treatment and as we recover we do tend to engage in healthier relationships.  It already sounds like you are practicing self-care, seeing where the problems are in your life, setting boundaries, all of which are important steps in recovery.   So just my two cents here but I wouldn't count out a healthy relationship down the line

I have the other form of PTSD as well, the real one, that is a mental health disability,

I'm still struggling with my mental health diagnosis after a decade. If I can achieve self sufficiency in spite of my mental health disability then I can think about an actual partner. That's what I'm working towards on top of my other responsibilities.

[sanmagic7]

pit bull, i give you a lot of credit for doing everything you can in this situation.  it's gnarly, twisted, convoluted, and you're doing so much in the areas of self-care and self-protection.  as in your al-anon meetings, it really is one day at a time.  you are doing what you can today, and that's what counts.  what happens tomorrow will happen, and you seem to have a lot of tools and resources at your disposal for coping with whatever's next down the road. 

i understand the ptsd disability thing.  for now, it can be a resource to give you time and rest.  time to do what needs to be done to take care of you and the situation, and periods of rest while recuperating from the previous battle and getting ready for the next one.  one day, hopefully, there won't be a next one, and you'll just be able to rest and have time for yourself and what pleases you. 

i think you're doing a great job in an awful situation, and i'm glad you have both your therapist and your group for support, encouragement, and to help you work through these issues.  one step at a time, right?!  big hug!

[pit_bull]

pit bull, i give you a lot of credit for doing everything you can in this situation.  it's gnarly, twisted, convoluted, and you're doing so much in the areas of self-care and self-protection.  as in your al-anon meetings, it really is one day at a time.  you are doing what you can today, and that's what counts.  what happens tomorrow will happen, and you seem to have a lot of tools and resources at your disposal for coping with whatever's next down the road. 

i understand the ptsd disability thing.  for now, it can be a resource to give you time and rest.  time to do what needs to be done to take care of you and the situation, and periods of rest while recuperating from the previous battle and getting ready for the next one.  one day, hopefully, there won't be a next one, and you'll just be able to rest and have time for yourself and what pleases you. 

i think you're doing a great job in an awful situation, and i'm glad you have both your therapist and your group for support, encouragement, and to help you work through these issues.  one step at a time, right?!  big hug!

Thank you so much! Today my daughter made a bad decision: she wants to go to a party at 8:30pm and she has her first Saturday at work tomorrow at 8am. I told her she's making a bad decision and I looked at calling the mental health crisis line, but then I remembered a line from "detach with love", don't cause a crisis, or get in the  way of one. So, if she loses her job, this is her second one, she lost her first one after the 30 day trial period, that would be the natural consequence.

My therapist actually wants me to take my focus off my boyfriend and put it on my daughter, kind of like what you're doing, and that's what I'm trying to do now.

I need to start writing about my daughter too on the appropriate forum. It is embarrassing to say that raising a teen with substance abuse and mood disorder and possible narcissistic traits contributes to my ptsd. I'll look and see if there is one for parents here on out of the storm. THat's going to be a tough one to address.

On top of the situation with my boyfriend, which caused me to be diagnosed with GAD last year and emotional shock this year, my past history with my ex husband and my parents, there is my daughter. Thankfully she is the only one of the above mentioned people I live with. I've never lived with my boyfriend and I never will, I don't believe in shacking up and at the rate he's going , we're not going to even be friends shortly.

I really appreciate your support and this website. I have been lurking around it for awhile and for some reason finally decided to start posting and I am glad I did!!

It is ironic, I may have an inheritance, in which case I will feel more secure about being a self employed fine artist. That is part of my story too, what happened to me, identified as mentally gifted in kindergarten, skipped first grade, was bullied in second grade, sexually abused by a peer in fourth grade, picked up alcohol and tobacco in seventh grade, marijuana in ninth grade, suicidal ideation in 11th grade, dropped out of high school in 12th grade, met my substance abusing mood disordered ex husband in college, and so on. There's more to my story, but that's a good start. 

Also my parents are extremely intelligent and are narcissistic , so I inherited that tendency from them. The difference between me and them is I worked my butt off in therapy to overcome that and they will never seek help because they are too high functioning. I've got to write on the adult children forum as well.

[Dee]

I am considered totally and permanently disabled with PTSD.  However, when I was devastated to hear that, my therapist told me that disability is just about benefits, that's all.  She said she wouldn't be wasting her time if she didn't feel there was hope.  I trust her enough to believe her. 

As far as guys go, I have totally written them off.  I never want any type of relationship ever again.  I know that my initial abuse set the stage for subsequent abuse and I made bad choices, but I don't care.  I'm not interested in a relationship or sex.  I am sure that is seen as a bad thing, but I'm good with it.

[pit_bull]

I am considered totally and permanently disabled with PTSD.  However, when I was devastated to hear that, my therapist told me that disability is just about benefits, that's all.  She said she wouldn't be wasting her time if she didn't feel there was hope.  I trust her enough to believe her. 

As far as guys go, I have totally written them off.  I never want any type of relationship ever again.  I know that my initial abuse set the stage for subsequent abuse and I made bad choices, but I don't care.  I'm not interested in a relationship or sex.  I am sure that is seen as a bad thing, but I'm good with it.

Yes PTSD is a condition that is unlikely to improve. I'm ok with that. My brother has a visible disability and he's doing just fine. I can learn to live with this.

I'm not really interested in a relationship or sex either. I am curious to see if my boyfriend gets divorced and gets treated for whatever's going on with him.  He says he has aspergers . He might. I'm watching him from a distance.

I've made it very clear to him I do not want to see him again until I see his divorce papers. It's been 1 year and 3 months that I've held my ground. Recently I put some emotional distance in the relationship as well.  I'm enjoying getting to know myself again after being under his influence for 4 years. I'm tired of his voice in my head.  I have my own dark side to deal with.

[sanmagic7]

pit bull,

much of my c-ptsd is a result of my daughter's abuse toward me, as well as the stress of caring for and caring about a person with mental illness.  i can now see she is a NPD, and, last year, when she was 38, i finally went no contact with her.  she and her father (my narc ex) had double-teamed me for about 20 yrs., while i lived with them, and it continued as i hung on for nearly another 20.  it almost, literally, killed me.  i understand that your daughter is still a minor,  so nc is probably not an option for you yet.  i just put this out there for you to know that it can get worse if you don't continue to distance yourself emotionally from those who are hurting you.  and congrats on allowing natural consequences to be in the picture and do their thing!  sometimes just standing back and doing nothing is the hardest thing to do.

there is a place on this forum for writing about parenting.  i'm so glad you're here.  it sounds like your therapist has your best interests at heart, too, which is great.  keep up the good work!  we're all in this together.

[pit_bull]

pit bull,

much of my c-ptsd is a result of my daughter's abuse toward me, as well as the stress of caring for and caring about a person with mental illness.  i can now see she is a NPD, and, last year, when she was 38, i finally went no contact with her.  she and her father (my narc ex) had double-teamed me for about 20 yrs., while i lived with them, and it continued as i hung on for nearly another 20.  it almost, literally, killed me.  i understand that your daughter is still a minor,  so nc is probably not an option for you yet.  i just put this out there for you to know that it can get worse if you don't continue to distance yourself emotionally from those who are hurting you.  and congrats on allowing natural consequences to be in the picture and do their thing!  sometimes just standing back and doing nothing is the hardest thing to do.

there is a place on this forum for writing about parenting.  i'm so glad you're here.  it sounds like your therapist has your best interests at heart, too, which is great.  keep up the good work!  we're all in this together.

Actually my daughter isn't the problem, its her father, and now that he barely sees her, he's solved my problem for me. The other problem is my parents. And there's the effect my boyfriend has on me. I think I've mitigated the narcissistic potential my daughter had, my former therapist told me that at least two years ago.

[sanmagic7]

well, there still sounds  like you have plenty on your plate to deal with.  i'm glad you're daughter isn't a problem on that level.  best to you, always.

[pit_bull]

well, there still sounds  like you have plenty on your plate to deal with.  i'm glad you're daughter isn't a problem on that level.  best to you, always.

Yes I do, no she's my joy. I just saw a meme that said "Does your wife know you're single", kind of the epitome of how I got in this situation in the first place, even though I haven't seen the man since last summer because of it.