Hi, You Can Call Me Spirals

[Spirals]

Hi, People 

I'm on this forum to help me work through some emotional struggles I have from growing up in an abusive and dysfunctional family.

My mother has Bipolar/Schizophrenia. She was unmedicated until my late teens so I never really had the "mother experience." She would alternate between deep depressions and aggressive mania, but she was nearly constantly psychotic. She was also paranoid and violent. Personality-wise she is a waif/witch. She was very confusing and controlling. She was miserable until she was committed and forced to take meds. Now she is mellow and we get along okay, but she has trouble relating to me. I've researched Schizophrenia so I know this is part of the disorder that is not voluntary on her part but I still feel like our relationship is hollow.

My father is not diagnosed with anything but was her illness's biggest enabler. Despite her blatant hallucinations and delusions, he even allowed her to homeschool me and my siblings.   As I've gotten older, I see he has a lot of antisocial and histrionic traits that were hard to notice next to her issues. In fact, I think he may have craved the attention that her clearly disordered behavior attracted. He also has some BPD traits but doesn't seem to have the deep emotional turmoil that is associated with that disorder. My relationship with him is incredibly disappointing because his rejection feels personal. I don't see or talk to him because I feel a lot of rage towards him for not managing my mother's mental illness and his failure to protect me. I realize now, I also missed out on the "father experience."

The relationships with two of my three siblings are extremely painful for me. I used to be close to both my older brother and my younger sister but they both relate to me in very personality disordered ways and have strong BPD and ASPD traits. I miss the people they used to be but the verbal and physical abuse is too hard to take. Plus, they bring out the worst in me. It's become apparent that their old sides are probably not going to override their disorders, at least not soon. I have some hope for my younger sister but we've had a dysfunctionally codependent relationship so I think it's better if we don't continue it as that dynamic slips in inevitably.

I have an older sister that moved away from the family when she went to college so she seems to be the most stable of us. She has some fleas but our relationship is good.    She's been the most functional and successful sibling.

My family has multiple dysfunctional dynamics. There is extreme favoritism. My brother has been my parents' most enduring obsession. He even assaulted me when I was in my teens but it had no effect on his golden child status.

Ironically, my parents will ignore, encourage or reward self-destructive behavior but will ignore or sabotage behavior that promotes independence or success. Most of us have had drug problems, career issues, legal problems, rage issues, and/or abusive partners. It's so depressing.

So that leaves me. I'm probably BPD if I'm honest with myself, although I do seem to fear being controlled more than I fear being abandoned. I do share some symptoms that apply to ADHD, Bipolar, PTSD, and CPTSD. Most of the time I'm depressed with some CPTSD symptoms but BPD/ASPD traits will come out if stressed or bored (depending on the trait).

The BPD label covers 90% of my symptoms but I'm pretty self-aware so I've been trying to manage it on and off since my teens. I have a fear/hatred of authority figures so I've only been to one therapy session. I felt overwhelmed by it and reflexively avoided going back but now that I'm older I've been interested in working with a therapist on my issues. I noticed some improvement over the years but lately it seems like I've fallen two steps back 

Thanks for reading.

[Three Roses]

Hello and welcome, Spirals

[Kizzie]

Hi and welcome to OOTS Spirals     It sounds like you have done quite a bit of reading and reflecting to identify what went on (and goes on) in your family. Just being able to name the issues/problems and the dynamics they created is a big step in recovery or so I found. Until then for me it was a big whirling vortex of craziness dressed in normalcy (my FOO has covert NPD).

I wonder if you read about the difference between CPTSD and BPD on our "Symptoms" web page?  It reads:

According to Cloitre et al (2014) "BPD is characterized by fear of abandonment, shifting self-image or self-concept, shifting idealization and devaluation in relationships, and frequent impulsive and suicidal behaviors" whereas in Complex PTSD "the fear of abandonment is not a requirement of the disorder, self-identify is consistently negative rather than shifting, and relational disturbances highlight chronic avoidance of relationships rather than sustained chaotic engagement" (p, 3).

Besides the issue of fearing abandonment versus avoiding relationships, there are other characteristics which distinguish the two.  Hope this helps you to identify what you suffer from. 

[radical]

Welcome Spirals,
Your childhood sounds miserable and one that it would be really hard for anyone to build a foundation of confidence and faith in others from.  Don't despair - you are in good company here.

[Spirals]

Thanks for the welcome, everybody    I'm having too much fun with these emoticons, lol. It was miserable growing up    I'm LC or NC with most of my family so I'm doing a lot better overall now. I like it here, too 

I'm not as familiar with CPTSD. When I was younger and Googled some of my more dysfunctional behavior, BPD would often come up. I used to be a cutter but I also sometimes have episodes that are probably emotional dysregulations. I think I may have sensory processing issues or ADHD as well.

I'm pretty rational and reflective until I hit a particular stress threshold or are exposed to certain triggers. I also become uncontrollably aggressive for about five minutes on impulse sometimes   

I can also can snap into hating people if they frustrate me. I do split people black. I also can sometimes idealize people from time to time. I trianglate, too, but I've been working on that the last few years so it's starting to lessen since I began working on my assertiveness and boundaries. The interpersonal/communication habits have improved a lot since I distanced myself from PD's.

I definitely see some CPTSD tendencies, now that I read the page Kizzie suggested, though. I do have an unstable self-identity. I sort of have a fluid identity. I can be quite charming or fairly flat depending on my mood. I also don't date much. I don't really have a strong desire for a partner and prefer to avoid the complications relationships often entail.

When you say MPD do you mean multiple personality disorder? I didn't know there was a covert form of the disorder. I often feel like I'm two people a lot of the time but I don't have memory blackouts or different names. I do hear weird thoughts in my head sometimes.

[Kizzie]

The emoticons are fun aren't they lol!  Sorry for the confusion Spirals, that should have been covert NPD for Narcissistic Personality Disorder     

I often feel like I'm two people a lot of the time but I don't have memory blackouts or different names. I do hear weird thoughts in my head sometimes.

Dissociation is another symptom of Complex PTSD which is why you may hear voices in your head. Many of us are also misdiagnosed as having Dissociative Identity Disorder (multiple distinct identities) but what we tend to have are different parts of the same self if that makes sense. For example, you'll read about our Inner Child quite a bit here.  It's not that we have a separate child with a different/distinct identity as you see in movies like The Three Faces of Eve, but it is younger us that has not fully integrated into our larger self because of the trauma s/he experienced.  You may hear him/her crying in the back of your head when you're upset.  Mine used to say a lot "I just want to play" and I would push the thought away as silly until I finally realized she(I) was telling myself something. I also have an angry teenage part who often whooshes up when someone hurts me. But they are all parts of me, not separate identities and I don't lose time or anything.

Anyway, stress triggers different parts to rise to the surface often which sounds like what you are experiencing (versus DID).  Does this resonate at all?

[flookadelic]

Hello Spirals, as someone who grew up around untreated schizophrenia (apart from exorcisms) of a much older sibling I can fully appreciate the impact that this has had. Transfer all of that to a supposed care-giver and I can well imagine the pain index doubling. My parents were my brothers biggest enablers and I recall the sheer confusion at the sheer stupidity of it all. Anyways, I hope you find lots of useful information and the solace of being understood here. And well done. Getting this far is a huge, monumental effort.

[Spirals]

Hi, people

Kizzie,
That sounds very much like what I'm experiencing lately! I have also heard voices in my head but I never really talked about it much because I knew intuitively that it was not psychosis because I recognized that they were my thoughts. Plus, they would often give helpful observations. I used to dissociate a lot. Which I didn't mind but now I will talk like I'm in a trance during them if people talk to me but the stuff I'm saying is clearly (to me) trauma based, rather than an autopilot answer like I used to give. It's embarrassing but I'm more worried about people thinking I'm crazy because that's happened after I had a flashback when I was younger. Plus, I can get aggressive and disoriented during them, and they seem to come on suddenly if I'm stressed.

Is twitching and muscle jerks and spams a cptsd symptom? I've had the right side of my body lock up and odd sensations and muscle coordination so I was worried there may be something neurological going on like MS or epilepsy.

Flookadelic,
It is crazy! Also, I was raised catholic as well. My mother attempted to exorcism me and my brother during our teens  she would throw water on us and be like "Be gone, Satan!" It's one of the funnier memories. I imagine a rebellious teen does seem possessed to a psychotic mother 

It's nice to talk to someone that has experienced something similar. I learned at a young age that my experience was so out of most people's frame of reference that most people wouldn't understand and to not expect a been-there-done-that kind of empathy.

Overall, it was pretty horrible. I totally agree that was scary and stupid. So confusing and painful. The full impact is only hitting me the last few years because I noticed I was still craving the "father" and "mother" experience but I had to let go from the idea that I would get that from my parents. I've never been able to get a good answer from my dad why he allowed her to abuse us and remain unmedicated. Like with some abusers that at least seem sane in front of the father. I don't really get it. Noe that I'm older it really bothers me

[Rebel62]

For example, you'll read about our Inner Child quite a bit here.  It's not that we have a separate child with a different/distinct identity as you see in movies like The Three Faces of Eve, but it is younger us that has not fully integrated into our larger self because of the trauma s/he experienced.

This seems to be a good description of what I experience when my anxiety is very high, which is most of the time recently. I can sense the different attitudes depending on what memories are cycling through my brain. Sometimes I feel young and confused, other times older and defiant, sometimes just hopeless. It's exhausting. I think I need to read up on the inner child some more.

Welcome Spiral. Therapy can be difficult. I was in therapy for a while, but due to a constant struggle to get my time in at work and care for my daughter who is struggling with a deep clinical depression (diagnosed bipolar 2 after recent hospitalization but her regular psychiatrist doesn't agree) I have fallen out of it and need to get back to it. Best of luck to you.

[bring em all in]

Hi, Spirals- welcome to the forums. Like you, I am quite self-aware of my childhood and current situations/conditions. Sometimes I wish I was just oblivious to it all- ignorance might not be bliss, but being wide awake to reality can suck also.

Still, without awareness we'd never start on the road to recovery, let along make any progress.

Best wishes on your journey!!!!!!

[Spirals]

Thanks, people!

Yes. It's interesting how more jarring flashbacks are then they used to be. I think it may be because I'm more self-aware then I used to be so I notice the mental maturity shifts. I often wish I was oblivious to it, too, sometimes.

I think I was so constantly stressed out that there was not a lot of calm, mature experiences to contrast the flashbacks with until more recently.

I've only been to one therapy session, hah hah. I have done yoga on and off for a few years, though. I think that really helped me regulate my emotions more. I noticed books on assertiveness and boundaries really helped me, too. I always knew my family was dysfunctional but I didn't understand how entangled the interpersonal dynamics were until I started learning about boundaries. I've also tried all kinds of herbs, and alternative remedies over the years. I'm practically a     

Rebel62,
I hope you and your daughter are doing okay. I suffer from depression. It can be mind-numbing and I have trouble getting out of bed or even thinking/talking, but I've never been hospitalized for it. But I have noticed that it can be draining for the people around me because they wind up taking care of so much extra stuff. And I sort of act like a zombie version of myself, which is something I think affects people around me more than they sometimes let on.

[Rebel62]

Thank you Spirals! At this point in time we are still trying to find meds that will work for her. She appears to be resistant to the newer anti-depressants so now she is on two of the older ones Nefazadone  & Desipramine as well as Epitol for mood stabilization. So far it doesn't seem to be working, but she's only been on the dose her psychiatrist wants her on for a few days after increasing the dose slowly over 12 days.

It does tend to wear you down and yes, I do need to start taking better care of myself. As soon as I get through the first couple months of the year and know that I have enough money in my HSA to cover all of my daughter's bills, then I will get back to therapy.

[Kizzie]

Is twitching and muscle jerks and spams a cptsd symptom? I've had the right side of my body lock up and odd sensations and muscle coordination so I was worried there may be something neurological going on like MS or epilepsy.

Hi Spirals - I've never read about this as being a common symptom - it's probably best to check this out with your GP. 

As for the different parts coming to the surface when we're triggered or stressed, that I have definitely experienced.  I was just thinking of a common example of when we notice the different parts of us (I've seen the term "ego states" used) in daily life (i.e. not stressed or triggered),  and it's when you say something like "I have mixed feelings about XXX" or "part of me wants to do XXXX, while another wants to do YYYY."  With dissociation, however, it's as though one part pushes into the foreground when I am stressed/triggered and the others move back behind a wall of opaque glass and watch from a distance.  It is all me though and not distinct identities.

I've come to think that when we're more integrated it isn't that we have one fixed sense of sense, but a more fluid sense of self that relies on different ego states to make complex decisions in a complex world.  Oh, oh rambling here - but that what it feels like to me lol.

[Spirals]

Hi, Kizzie

Yes, I've been trying to get my medical insurance worked out so I could see a doctor. I've thought it was psychological but I'm beginning to feel that it is something neurological that stress just worsens.

I really like the stuff you said about shifting parts to the self. I think that is very true. I really related to the part about one part being active while the others watch. That's happened to me a lot over the years. I've also felt that I just need to have all parts commune on decision making! Like all of me just needs to reintegrate after stress. Maybe trauma really does "shatter the soul," so to speak.

Rebel62,
That's good. I think it is hard to take care of so many moving parts at once. I also break things I need to do into a  list, and then work my way down. Otherwise I get paralyzed over what to do first and then give up.

Usually, it goes better if I set certain things aside for later rather than forcing myself to do it all at once. I've tried to just force myself but I've had breakdowns before due to the unnecessary stress, so I think it's smart you are scheduling therapy for later.

Not that you'd have a breakdown or anything. That's just something I tend to do, lol.

[Rebel62]

Usually, it goes better if I set certain things aside for later rather than forcing myself to do it all at once.

I have to do this too. I used to just keep a mental list, but have found that over the last several months that I tend to forget important things when I do that, so I think I need to  actually start writing these things down.

Not that you'd have a breakdown or anything. That's just something I tend to do, lol.

Actually, I do tend to do that, and recently just did. The stress of my daughter's struggles, and constant ef's from my childhood became too much, but I think I am in a better place now. The ef's aren't coming as often now and I am better able to handle what is going on with my daughter and work too. I know that it's temporary, but I'm in an ok place right now and I am relieved about that since now I can decide on next steps while I'm doing better rather than out of desperation.