[Sienna]

If anyone has any insight or experience, or can form any possible connections for me, please do let me know what you think.


Tried to not like this person after i did, after finding out they didnt feel the same way, and the age gap -they are very aware of.
Now the feelings are back.
Part of me thinks this is normal, and part of me wonders if its to do with someone in the past- a parent, or even both.

Theres so much he doesnt know about me. And so much he doesnt see because of the age gap.
I think ive already got him figured out, and i want to connect.
Similar childhood experiences..(though not sure to what extent)..
he is closed off..possibly what you might call, counter dependant ..
weird, but in a good way...
Dont know how to offer him my support with out sounding too clingy or engulfing, but worry I'm not saying what I'm thinking in terms of being here for him when maybe i should just say it.
Im being patient with him and his closed off ness because I'm like that, though it is a desperate need i have to reach in further and drag some him out.
I wish he could see past my age.
Sometimes its like he sees me and what I'm not saying, and other times its as though he doesnt and i can't be my quirky self with him even though he's into that,  so my quirky Aquarious rising ways are stifled behind a wall and i may just come across as laughing a lot and immature.
He's the sort of guy who calls me hun- his moon is in capricorn, and apparently, men are very friendly with this placement which can lead women on.
We are both the type of people who hold back feelings, so there would be some distance between us.
I feel so embarrassed after seeing him today, now that the feelings have come back, always fearing ill stay the wrong thing...so I'm holding back.
I don't feel *good* anymore and just a bit let down, but its really only because of my own stupid fantasises ..is it?
what is wrong with me???
It hurts that i can't show him i care because I'm worried he will freak out at that, and maybe I'm afraid ill be rejected and look like the needy one.

I think i can sort of figure out psychologically speaking why I'm drawn to him, but i can't access the pain as I'm not exactly sure what it relates to from my past (as I'm sure it does)
but i do think that thinking about him takes me away from my own world, but what am i running from?

[radical]

In my experience of intense crushes, wild horses wouldn't drag you away.

I don't think it is a good thing that someone so much older appears to have so much in common with you when you are young, vulnerable and hurting.  I hope he is able to stop.  I hope he has enough care and respect for you to pull right back and stop flirting with you.

There is nothing wrong with your feelings an fantasises, but this isn't a good place to be starting any kind of serious intimate relationship imo, you are achingly vulnerable and needy.  There is nothing wrong with being so, it just leaves you wide open to being crushed.

[Wife#2]

Sienna,

I'm no psychologist at all, but given the feelings of abandonment you suffer surrounding your Dad and stepmom makes me think one facet of this crush is the desire to matter enough, to be worthy of attention and affection. This places you too deeply into a vulnerable state. I agree with Radical. This is fraught with too much danger to you. Enjoy the feelings of intensity, but this is one I would steer away from exploring.

[radical]

Reading back my reply sounds judgemental and I didn't mean it to be, Sienna.  Most of my relationships have been with older men and there is nothing wrong with age differences. 

From my own experience, there can be real danger in getting involved with someone who is much older, when you are young and haven't yet established yourself in the world, when you have a degree of blindness to abuse and disrespect, and when you are in a vulnerable, unconfident, hurting place. It is something I wish I had understood when I was younger.

[Dee]

Sienna,

Before I read any replies I thought "she needs to learn to take care of herself first."  I am in the same place.  Now is no time for me to get into a relationship.  I have to get me straight before I can think of an us.  It just wouldn't be healthy.  I also cannot look at someone else to rescue or take care of me.  I know only I can do that.  Wanting that also attracts the wrong type of person.  When I do date again, I want the guy to be drawn to a healthy, self reliant person.  Not a person that can be taken advantage of or controlled.  I think you have amazing resiliency, I'm not sure you know that. 

[Sienna]

radical, I understand all you are saying, and thanks. I did think you were judging, but i appreciate your second reply clarifying what you meant.
The reason I am looking to where this may be coming from, is because i am very very aware that I am in no way ready for a relationship, and I think that there is possibly something deeper going on here, with in myself.
The relationship i had with my now X, was for a reason- for both of us, -only i used it in the end, once i realised about trauma etc. to help me to learn and grow, part of the reason it broke down.
I cant have a relationship, and a lot of the time, don't wish for one, as i just think that even though i have changed so much in the way i relate to others, that it might just be disastrous, as i havent finished working on myself and the kinds of people I attract.
And besides, i feel safer now that i am on my own.
I just want these feelings to go away.

Maybe i am *in my mind* repeating what happened with my father...the emotional incest- hense the attraction to *older men*, though i do find that I don't relate as much at all, to people that are my age.  And i read that a person can have an addictive attraction to men in order to repeat what happened but it usually all ends badly.  (i have experienced this more than once)

Don't know if anyone else here finds this and i don't mean to sound big headed, but i think that i have a lot more life experience and inside into life than most people my age. I feel older than my years and think about life a lot differently than others, things that i can share or have in common with anyone on the outside.
I know i have to figure out who I am, and that that isn't a good starting point for a relationship.
I was hoping that with my last partner, that we could both learn and grow together, but he just couldn't do it, as it was too frightening for him on his part.

Can I ask..?..Do you think that there is more chance of being hurt by someone who is older than you, apposed to someone who is near your age?
My X had his own trauma responses and he hurt me very much, as i did him and he was only a year older.

I have a feeling that this guy wouldn't want to work on his own *stuff* or progress spiritually in the way that I do, (like my X didnt) and being really honest and realistic, i would idealy need a partner who does or who has already done the work

As for the flirting, he might not mean it that way, i don't know...but my T did think that it wasnt ok that he sort of...went all cold on him finding out i had feelings for him.

I agree that I am vulnerable, as much as I hate to admit it.
Would you mind explaining what you meant, when you said that i am achingly needy?
I know i have a lot of needs that weren't met by FOO, and that I need to meet them myself.
My T says that there is nothing wrong with wanting connection with others, and that its ok and normal to have some needs met by others. I have always tried to meet my own needs, yes in unhealthy ways, and the hardest thing for me is letting anyone help me or be close- equals this conflict.

[Sienna]

Wife2, thanks for your thoughts.

one facet of this crush is the desire to matter enough,
to be worthy of attention and affection.

Maybe you are right.
I seem to want all the things i push away and fear.
I do think that people just say things and don't really mean them...everyones out for their own gain...Its like i want what i can never have, as it never ends up ...ok.
I guess i want to believe he cares, but like all the others, he might not. Perhaps he took the place of my father this christmas.
Perhaps somewhere deep down, i don't feel good enough, and maybe this is a manifestation of that.
I do think its something to do wth my dad. I definitely have *father issues*, but i know that in reality, i would never let anyone else try to help me..because i have never bene able to. And its not their job. I know it has to come from inside of me, and its always been that way. Perhaps i just want it to be different.

If i give into my...intense feelings...im afraid ill just feel..feelings of longing..and thoes feelings are painful to me. I think i may be getting to something here. I created another dissociative part of me who holds those feelings that as a child, was futile in having, and now I'm afraid to go near them.

[Sienna]

Dee, thanks for understanding, though you are in the same place.
You are right and i have always known this.
I guess i just want to know *how* to take care of myself.
And i know that the aim of doing that is not to shut the inner child up, but instead to accept how she feels- the hardest thing IMO...
and not just so that i can have a relationship at the end of the day. That shouldn't be the aim otherwise the IC will feel rushed and like an inconvenience (then you are repeating part of why she hid from you in the first place)

Knowing how to take care of yourself...how does one do that? Where do you start?
Instead of repeating patterns, how do you get to whats *under there?*, because all thats happening is this part of me who has these feelings that i as a child, separated into another part, keeps coming back with these feelings.
Im afraid to listen to her and i don't know how.

Dee, we seem to be on the same lines of thinking.
The best person i believe, to take care of you, is you, as when you are able to figure it out, only you knows what you really need. And only you has walked in your shoes.

When I do date again, I want the guy to be drawn to a healthy, self reliant person.  Not a person that can be taken advantage of or controlled.

 
Yes,    :thumb:
That is an amazing way to think of it.
I want the next guy i date to not be controlling, to not need to be with me because I'm part of the puzzle he is trying to fix in his life, and i want him to accept my own self reliance. I want myself to be able to allow some of the walls to come down, and for him in turn, to actually accept what he sees.

I have never been described as being resilient before, thanks Dee.
I hope you find what you wish for, you deserve that. 

[radical]

I wasn't being patronising.  I'm "achingly needy" right now.  I'd love to be in a safe place and feel loved and loving, but I'm not.

The reason much older men can be dangerous when you are much younger, is that what can appear to a younger generation to be signs of sophistication, worldliness and having their life together, is often clearly seen to those of a similar age to be patronising, self-indulgent, insecure and jerky.  A bigger danger though is what can appear to be protective and loving can turn out to be controlling, undermining, and covertly abusive.  It can create an unhealthy dependency trap. They can have a vested interest in you not gaining confidence if it was partly lack of confidence that  drew you to them.  There can be a one-up one-down dynamic from the outset, they are the teacher and you the student, in a way.  My partner used to love this old song and see it as representing our relationship:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWgMFP9-Jy0

Notice it's not "Caterpillar woman". I wasn't even a damn butterfly, and why would you be attracted to someone you didn't see as being an adult?  I don't think he ever knew who I was as a person despite years together, I was just his pretty doll. He never saw me as an equal and the coercive control got worse over time.  All good relationships are equal partnerships, imo. 

Also, the young years when you are living the life of an older person due to being with an older partner, you don't get them back. 

[Contessa]

To start, I will admit that I have skimmed this thread. Not feeling too well so apologies guys if I repeat or divert from the topic.

Sienna, that hard crushing really hurts hey. Your heart says one thing while your mind is on a different journey, and you find yourself at an emotional crossroad trying to understand what is happening while choosing which way to go.

I'm in the same place as you, I would love to be in a healthy respectful relationship, but am vulnerable to exploitation. How I long for someone to hold me in their arms and feel complete and safe. But I can't, because I'm not strong enough to be content with 'me'.

I found before all the trauma, that I was that strong. It was the men who felt safe with me. And I had a life without them, and was important to people other than them.

Not sure where this reply is heading, but it seems like a few of  us acknowledge that we are not ready, and we need to find our own strength again before giving ourselves over. We are at a higher risk for abandonment or exploitation and therefore more vulnerable to being triggered.

With you Sienna, all the way.

[Sienna]

Contessa, Im sorry your not feeling well. I don't know whats going on, but I just want you to know that Im here for you too.
Its totally ok that you didnt read all of the thread, just thank you for taking the time to post.

Sienna, that hard crushing really hurts hey. Your heart says one thing while your mind is on a different journey, and you find yourself at an emotional crossroad trying to understand what is happening while choosing which way to go.

You seem to really understand this.
Feel less alone after reading your post. I have been feeling pretty ashamed for having these feelings and your post has helped me to feel a little better.
This sounds like a conflict, and i wonder if its dissociative parts wanting completely different things, and trying to protect / guard that part that wants closeness.  Added, who / what you want is unavailable, thus maybe plus emotional flashback.

I'm in the same place as you, I would love to be in a healthy respectful relationship, but am vulnerable to exploitation. How I long for someone to hold me in their arms and feel complete and safe. But I can't, because I'm not strong enough to be content with 'me'.

I feel the same. It makes sense that anyone would want that connection with another, and when you add into the mix never having had it before, meaning your left with gaping holes that want to be filled.
And it makes sense doesn't it, if we have been injured, that we are vulnerable to exploitation, which is not our fault.
I hope you can get to a place where you are one day, happy and content with who you are.

With you too Contessa. 

[Dee]

Radical nailed it.  When I first met my ex-husband I thought he was taking care of me and I liked it.  The taking care of me turned into controlling me.  Controlling me turned into an abusive relationship.  He was attracted to me because I played the role and I was attracted to him because it was all I had ever known.  There is some comfort in familiar, even if not a good familiar.  I was revictimized. 

For the the taking care of myself starts with making my own decisions.  I have been so frustrated in therapy that everyone is trying to give me control when I didn't know what to do with it.  I get it now, it is my life, I have to decide.  My therapist can tell me what to do, but that wouldn't help me.  When I have an issue I can ask advice from friends (the ones here) but in the end I have to do what I think.  I  had to make a priority list of decisions I needed to make.

Taking care of me is communicating my needs.  People can't guess what I need, I have to tell them. 

It totally sucked, but perhaps my latest act of taking care of myself was going to the emergency room and telling them I needed to be watched for a few hours.  I could of hurt myself in some way, but I decided to communicate my needs.  It was hard, but the next day I felt good about my choice.

[Sienna]

Dee, thanks for telling me what you do to meet your own needs.

It totally sucked, but perhaps my latest act of taking care of myself was going to the emergency room and telling them I needed to be watched for a few hours.  I could of hurt myself in some way, but I decided to communicate my needs.  It was hard, but the next day I felt good about my choice.

Well, i think that is amazing. And very brave.

See, i can't listen to my inner child, but asking for what i need from others- that is a big no no for me. i mean, if I'm needy (inside, even largely hidden from myself), what if others see that?
I do think you have to take care of your own needs first- the child like ones that you never got, because someone else can't fill them- well, not completely.

Im sorry you had a similar experience in your relationship to radical.
I have had similar experience to you and radical, though from a guy only a year older.
He invaded my boundaries in more ways than one, and i have huge boundry lines that keep others out. But i thought him pressuring me to talk and be open when i just couldn't, was him caring, only it wasnt, and he couldnt accept that that is the way i am (due to trauma and being made to be that way).
But i also did things to control him, things I'm not proud of. I became like my mother. I needed to frantically control how i felt due to triggers and i projected that onto him.

I think i already do make my own decisions. I always say to my T, i know you can't tell me what to do, and taking the issue out helps.
I don't think my X liked that i used to *go against the grain*, I used to speak up when things were not going to fly with me so to speak. I had opinions and i voiced them.
Though when things were tough and there was a lot of trauma stuff coming up, i did one time do what he wanted, because i was in a double bind and i knew that whatever decision i made, he wouldn't be happy with.
 
I think i need to listen to what she needs. Makes sense, as she was rejected and shamed for having needs in the first place. So now i can't meet her needs. I think i need to know that it will be ok if i listen, and that she is deserving of that.
Im in a place of distrust that others would respond well if i communicated a need.

[Sienna]

radical, I'm sorry your also in the same place.

Thanks for explaining.

The reason much older men can be dangerous when you are much younger, is that what can appear to a younger generation to be signs of sophistication, worldliness and having their life together, is often clearly seen to those of a similar age to be patronising, self-indulgent, insecure and jerky

. 
Makes sense. I think it might work if the person seems younger for their age.

A bigger danger though is what can appear to be protective and loving can turn out to be controlling, undermining, and covertly abusive.  It can create an unhealthy dependency trap. They can have a vested interest in you not gaining confidence if it was partly lack of confidence that  drew you to them.  There can be a one-up one-down dynamic from the outset, they are the teacher and you the student, in a way.

Yes, that makes sense. Its always a possibility.

I wasn't even a damn butterfly, and why would you be attracted to someone you didn't see as being an adult?  I don't think he ever knew who I was as a person despite years together, I was just his pretty doll. He never saw me as an equal and the coercive control got worse over time.  All good relationships are equal partnerships, imo. 

Thats very sad radical, and very wrong. It sounds like he saw you, only for what he wanted you to be. Perhaps he missed out on seeing how much more there is to you.

I guess, considering the fact that i have never had a positive relationship with anybody, it is easy to think that if this dude did feel the same, which he doesn't, that it would just go the same way as all the others did, that he would be the same as all the others.  I do think however, that if anything did happen, that i would be on high alert for anything bad (which could make me seem crazy and not relaxed in itself- so not good), but if anything did come up, i would run.
Been doing a lot of that lately, and now i have left all the friends behind who were no good for me.

Also, the young years when you are living the life of an older person due to being with an older partner, you don't get them back.

That makes sense radical. That is quite scary. Im sorry if that happened to you.
When i realised that i had missed out on being a child, enjoying my teen years, being a normal teenager, and that my 20's were wasted when i should have been having fun, I realise that i have needs that were never fulfilled, hence, maybe like them, i have needs left over.
There would have to be a compromise, I would have to do things that i need- for me, as I can never let my life go by like i have done. And it wasnt even really because of my X, just never fell into that kind of crowd, and due to Cptsd, never went to university, when i could have.
Hugs
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