Question to the admins

[Boatsetsailrose]

Hi kizzie / Dutch uncle

I would like to ask am I able to post of suicidal ideation .. i am in no way wanting to harm myself or actually 'feel suicidal ' but I do get thoughts of 'I wish I was dead ' and also psychological flashes of hurting myself - image that flashes in my mind

I'm not sure how much I can share on this stuff

[mourningdove]

Great question. I could have written it myself, but have never had the courage.

[Three Roses]

This is what the Guidelines say:

"Posts about wanting to cause harm to yourself or someone else in the present or future are not allowed and will be removed from the boards immediately. The poster will be encouraged to seek immediate professional assistance for themselves or the person in their lives who is making the threat. (One exception to this rule is describing suicidal or self harm thoughts which have happened in the past.)  Note the 'If you are in crisis' button at the top of this page (http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=1616.0) which provides links to suicide, harm to self, and domestic violence organizations and hot lines internationally.

Any member who receives a personal message containing an ideation, threat of violence or harm should stop the conversation and report the PM using the "Report To Moderator" link provided at the bottom of each message."

Hope that helps!

[Dee]

The way I understand this is I could talk about past attempts, past self harm, and past ideation.  I could not post about present ideation.  However, I believe ideation and planning are different and it would be nice to sometimes share that.  I can also see how we do not want to trigger one another or put a burden on someone.

I think the best bet is if you want to post something PM a moderator first, I did.  I got a quick response and could post an event that had occurred.  Thanks Three Roses for that!

[Boatsetsailrose]

Thank you
I read the guidelines but am still unclear as I don't actually 'want to ' it is just a psychological feature of cptsd. My brain flashes these images but I in no way want to carry them out - in fact it is very frightening and I feel full of fear that it is happening and feel very alone with it . I do have a Gp appointment soon to explore if I have any options available to me

[Boatsetsailrose]

I have pm kizzie

[Dee]

 

hope you feel better soon!

[Three Roses]

The only thing that I would ever change as a moderator would be to edit a post that contained active planning or threats of harming someone, or one's self.

I also have intrusive violent thoughts - maybe some sort of catastrophizing - and I also have found myself off on a mental tangent, into daydreaming (daymaring?) about being in an accident or some other disaster. What would I do, what would happen, ways to avoid, it's amazing what my mind can come up with.

I've found no solution to keep myself from doing this in moments that my mind is not occupied, I can only change what I'm thinking about once I realize I'm doing it. I think I do it when I'm dissociated, stressed, triggered, etc.

This is a very uncomfortable symptom of my cptsd and I think it's important to be able to discuss it, while still being sensitive to our co-posters who struggle with active suicidal ideation. Maybe a large trigger warning at the beginning would be enough?

[Kizzie]

This is a tough one because I do understand from personal experience ideation without any actual intent/planning. In my case I have had thoughts of wanting to close my eyes and just be done with all the pain and fear and grief, but not picturing actual ways of moving on this. I never thought of myself as suicidal per se and never brought this up in therapy or with my GP because I never actually planned or fixated on the idea. I was concerned I would be labeled as having intent, when to my mind it was more about not knowing what to do and having the unavoidable thought that there is a solution which was not really a solution because it is final.

My concern for OOTS though is that if we do allow talk about this on the board, will members be able to make the distinction?  None of us are trained/equipped to deal with someone who actually wants to act on these feelings. If we don't hold to the guideline that present day thoughts of planning to die cannot be discussed here, and continue to point members toward a trained professional instead, are we doing a (potentially fatal) disservice to those who really need to reach out for help in real life as soon as possible? I am also concerned that this topic can be overwhelming for many members and they may not feel like OOTS is a safe place to come to. 

What may be possible -- and this is something I'd like to get feedback on, is to set up a trial thread regarding ideation without any actual intent and see how it goes.  The thread would clearly indicate the difference between thoughts of and intent, and would let posters know that at any posts which do talk about actual intent will be removed and the member will be encouraged to reach out for professional help.   

Thoughts?

[Dee]

I like it!  It can be a very scary thing to deal with alone and often I think others may need some support to bring it up to a therapist.  I also like the trial idea in case it does become too much.  Perhaps it can give people a place where they can feel they can open up about past feelings and how they got through it.  Support can make a huge difference.

[Boatsetsailrose]

Hi kizzie
Thank you for your reply and sharing
I can totally understand the boundaries and it is good to bring it out as a subject because it has got me thinking about my own welfare and the welfare of others.

Quote
' will members be able to make the distinction '
It's a really good point .. where is that line, especially when in distress ?
Also it got me thinking someone may share as a past event when actually it is present.
I agree also that pointing people to get real
Life help is so important and we may do disservice otherwise..
For me even though it's ideation with no intent it is still serious and it has prompted me to seek professional help - I'm not well and I need to see what is available to me in my community ..

Also re new members that is a good point .. when I came in here as a new member what would it have felt like to see posts of ideation um well all I know is that I found it all overwhelming enough anyway so would it have only added to the overwhelm ? Quite possibly

Re the trail thread on ideation
Even though I am the one who started this thread I'm really not sure it is a good idea ..
I mean for example I could post one minute on ideation and it could then cross the line and I would still be sharing, because let's face it when I am in crisis ( as has been the case in the past) I'm so mentally unwell and feel out of control I'll reach out to the first thing that presents it self , in my desperation as the solution

It feels right that I take this stuff outside of this forum

Thank you so much for helping me to explore this subject and for keeping a boundary where I see it is there to keep me safe and pointing to the right professional help that I need

Blessed to have you all

[sanmagic7]

after reading what others think, i believe that it's very difficult for non-professionals to  make the distinction between thought and intent.  professionally, i have been taught that if there is a plan, there is intent.  no plan, then it's just a thought.  these were the guidelines i knew if i had someone in my office talking about suicide, and intent needed to be dealt with immediately.  as in, i needed to make a call right then and there.

on this forum, we really don't know who is speaking or what line they may be treading.  and, the subjects that are spoken about already can be overwhelming.  i know, even tho i didn't go through a lot of what people have brought up re: what they've gone through in childhood, i usually have to stay clear - i just can't take it.

so, i'm thinking that it might not be a very good idea to allow present thoughts here.  those do need to be dealt with by professionals, helplines, emer. rooms and clinics, etc.  just my opinion.  maybe it would work out just fine, i don't know.  if it were my forum, i'd rather err on the side of safety.  it's very difficult to decide what direction a mind can take, especially if in crisis.

[Wife#2]

As a poster on this site, I've gone back and forth on this subject. Yes, it would be nice to know that others have these fleeting thoughts as well. However, to add emphasis to what San said -

When I did have ideation, I realized that it was a VERY BAD thing, so I got onto a hotline. Just from ideation, I allowed myself to be convinced to go to the emergency room where I could be forwarded to the professional help I needed. I did that. I got the help. I at no time intended to end my life, but by putting myself in the hands of professionals, it stayed just a vague idea and I got help.

So, I have to join the opinion that it is best left to the professionals when ideation or actual talk take place. I'd rather have posters still here and mad at me for this opinion than any alternative.

[Kizzie]

OK then, let's just leave things as is for now and certainly we can revisit it at any time.

As always, thanks so much for feedback/input, it is really helpful in making this forum a community   and   

[mourningdove]

I share many of the concerns that were expressed, but i also don't feel like a real conversation was had about this.