POLL: Are you a Highly Sensitive Person (HSP)?

[schrödinger's cat]

Ha yes, those corporate rambo pep talks don't translate AT ALL well into my culture. There's always this athmosphere of "preteens on a sugar high" about it. But conversely, Americans complain about how dour and funereal our corporate events are (which is true, they are), so it all evens out in the end.

Now, Cat ...did you mean INFP or ENFP?   I imagine you are INFP ...

In Myers-Briggs terms, I'm halfway between those types, but lean more towards ENFP. There's another typology called Socionics, and I'm definitely an ENFp in that. (Socionics ENFps are said to be the most introverted of all extraverted types, so it still fits with the "not really a very extraverted extravert" thing I have in the MBTI.)

[Rain]

Oh, now I understand, Cat.   You can see why I was confused though ...you say "fellow intuitive" and you had ENFP.   So, you are more extraverted than Rain.   Smiles here!

I so laughed with the "pre-teens on sugar high" ...almost.    They do all act quite mature.   It's just the messages at the event are so pumped up ...like a soda commercial.

Hug to my more extraverted friend!   

[Sandals]

Another intuitive here - INTJ.   

In Canada, we're about halfway between EU & US (as is true for many things). The culture is not as brash (apologies for lack of a better word, my American friends, it's just what springs to mind). But from a corporate perspective, the lean for success is to those who are more extroverted. From a social perspective, it's not as high-pressured, but can be in some situations.

Interestingly, I had a former boss who was always pushing me to "find my voice" - which in her world meant to be louder, participate more, etc. I would tell her that I had my voice and also respect from those I worked with (which is true). I know she meant it from a good place, but it really irked me. Ironically, now that I *am* actually looking to find my voice, it has nothing to do with the metrics she put forward.

Being an INTJ means that I in my head a lot more than I am in my heart (F) and looking to understand the facts to make decisions (J) - I admire how the F & P comes out in you, Rain & Cat.

[Rain]

oh  to you, Sandals.

All myers briggs types are needed in the world.   I do with the HSP and IN-- types were more embraced in the States and in Canada.   I've been to Canadian events, so I know what you mean.

You would enjoy the Quiet book too, Sandals.   The author has a story of herself in a meeting that soooo counters what your boss says.

A voice is good, in any way YOU choose to express it.   

[Sandals]

Thanks, Rain.

I actually read Quiet when it first came out a while ago. I think I've been much more in touch with my introverted side than my vulnerable side because it was easier to quantify and rationalize...and coincidentally also provided a good defense to not be vulnerable.

[Rain]

Share more on this, Sandals, if you want.  And, you had also brought up vulnerability in the other thread.   I haven't thought of introversion being a defense not to be vulnerable.

I'm behind on current books, I just read it this Spring. 

[Sandals]

I'm impressed that you are doing so much reading, Rain. I've been struggling to comprehensively read a single book for a while (I skim lots and also read internet articles, etc.). Keep it up, my friend. 

Here is my hypothesis: I don't think introversion itself is a defence to vulnerability. It's part of who we are and it's good to understand and accept it to help with being aware. However, the way that I was defining and using it served as a defence to not to be vulnerable.

Here are a few examples. (Bear in mind that I find there's still a lot of debate about what actually is an introvert characteristic; I think as with any definition, there is a spectrum and differences occur at the ends of it.)

-Behaviour example: Introverts don't like to talk loudly or participate a lot. They are deep thinkers and will speak up when they have something important to say.
-My defence to vulnerability: I don't need to speak up because I am an introvert (vs. because I am afraid of what may happen, because it doesn't feel safe). I don't need to say something or ask this question because it is a minor detail since I'm an introvert and it's not a deep thought (vs. because I'm scared I might be wrong).
-[note: this would sometimes even happen sub-consciously when talking to my T. I would go into a session and then just not feel like saying anything & wouldn't talk. In this case, it wasn't a conscious defence, but it was still a defence to vulnerability.]

-Behaviour example: Introverts don't like to socialize a lot.
-My defence to vulnerability: I am going to stay at home and not socialize because I am an introvert (vs. because I am uncertain and afraid of what might happen at this occasion, even though I'm interested and it could be an amazing opportunity, even though there's nothing wrong with the environment)
-[note: again, some of this defence was conscious, but a lot was unconscious]

It's funny how shame can mask these things (things are tying together for me) and mount defences using very rational thinking. My T told me about the Johari Window and how a lot of this process (for me) is moving things from the unconscious to the conscious mind. I feel that as I'm doing this, I can then start to filter on what is a defence to being vulnerable (likely driven by shame) and what is truly respecting my more introverted nature.

Does that make sense?

[Rain]

Thanks, Sandals!   And, thanks for your encouragement, and feedback on my "reading path" or bibliotherapy as Pete Walker calls it.

I use the word "justification" for what you call defence.

A person justifies their behavior with rational or irrational beliefs.

Your examples are that you justify what you have done because you are an introvert.   The justifications vary to the situation, but they are tied to the characteristics of introversion.

I understand what you are saying, Sandals!   Thanks for detailing it, and I love how you brought in shame ...it's underneath so much.

We are all unraveling so much here at the forum!

[Badmemories]

I think that the GD that I sit for the most, is hsp. Thanksgiving seemed to do her in. She was almost sickly the day after. Then she slept for about 3 hours in the afternoon. On Thanksgiving I ask her IF She wanted to call her Daddy...She didn't, finally when She woke up from her nap the day after, I ask her about if She wanted to talk to her Daddy. She finally agreed. Then I overheard Her tell him She did not call him on Thanksgiving day because She was nervous.

During our play date She told me that she did not like school... She would like to be home all the time! I think She feels comfortable at home. She is friendly at school and has lots of friends. So it is not a peer thing that makes her want to stay home. I find I have to be careful at the level of voice I use on her If I raise my voice then she cries,no matter what I say.  Mostly She is EASY to care for. She is comfortable playing by herself as long as She is in the same room with me. She is not one of those kids that want to sit at the TV all day...she goes from doing different things, playing with dolls, then legos, then writing, etc. She has a wonderful vocabulary using very big words, I sometimes wonder where she learns them! I did learn that IF I have a play date with her and let My inner child GO then She opens up with me more!

This information will help me care for her better. I think that at times I was thinking that She was using crying as a way to do what she wanted... Now I am going to think that she might be overloaded rather than trying to get her way! I will try soothing her more and teaching her to sooth herself. I have been working on this some but now realizing that It is more important than I thought! 
Keep on Keeping on! 

[zazu]

Thank you soooooooooo much for this post.   A couple of things, yes, Elaine Aron said the same thing in her book that HSPs do not fare well being abused --more so-- than most children.    You said it well, it is an extra wallop.

You also bring up something that I have wondered about on OOTS members as a whole, which is the high IQ factor.   For the most part, this is an very smart group of people.   And, I am also aware, this is a group that has survived, and also went so far as to find a support group.   However, it still leaves me wondering what "contribution" (I cringe using that word) that the abuse had to the high IQ.    Yes, I had noticed you were quite intelligent, zazu ...so, it is not a "loss" as you say.   

I have met someone with synesthesia before in that saw music as color.   For you, Zazu, your experience of music is a qualitative difference ...sad ...happy ...soooo, Christmas carols are tear-jerkers for you?  I'm sighing here.   And, does that mean when you go to funerals, and hear the organ music, it is happy, joy-evoking for you??   This is a major bummer.   So, high school dances your peers are laughing having good time to the music, and it is intensely sad music for you.   Correct?   And, then you are supposed to join in ....not fun.

As to HSP, I don't know ...that is part of why I was asking.   It would take a researcher, etc. though to really answer your question.   I just had an impression of a high % of HSP here.   And, yes, the CPTSD symptoms and HSP do have similarities in some aspects.   I'm sure you know, but HSP is a biologically different nervous system according to Aron.

I'm delighted you are taking such good care of your HSP children!!!   Wow.   And, your other son being intuitive.   Hey, Zazu ...sounds like you are doing a great job of being a mother!   Way to Go!!!

Hi Rain,

Sorry it's taken so long to respond (I've been away for Thanksgiving holiday)....
I didn't mean to mislead in my previous post. I don't have synesthesia related to music - that's just an example of how my "wiring" is a bit wonky. I kind of wish I did - it would be cool to see shapes and colors with sounds! No, I have the gustatory-lexical type (tasting words), some word-color and one type that's rather hard to fit in one category -  the way I experience memory is a bit like a filing cabinet, but instead of being labeled alphabetically or numerically, like a real life filing system, the memories are categorized by color, taste and feeling. If  I need to retrieve a memory, I'll remember the color, taste and especially the feeling that went with a certain date and be able to pull it out and re-live the memory.

It happens with even small things, like, say, remembering what's on a particular page of a book. This amazes my husband, who can never remember where a particular phrase is located. He has to mark and highlight things. I just associate each passage in a book with a particular feeling/color/taste which is associated with a page number, and bang, there it is. It seems so simple, but he really can't do it.

That probably sounds bizarre, but I only realized it was strange when other people said they did not experience things in the same way and were confused when I tried to explain. The psychologist, on the other hand, jumped up and down with excitement when I happened to mention this in passing (I really didn't think it was important) because he had been stymied as to why I was not improving after two years of treatment. He suspected that the synesthesia resulted from abnormal connections between my temporal lobe and limbic system. If this was the case, then some of my mental health issues weren't so much emotional as strictly neurological.

It really helped, knowing that.

And I do hope I'm dealing with my HSP kids appropriately. I make sure they get enough space and quiet when they need it. The older one feels left out of ordinary teenage life by being an introvert, as if he's doing it "wrong". You know, the stereotype of teens and their wild parties, which sounds like a total nightmare to him. I tell him that it's perfectly okay if books, art and quiet conversation is his version of fun. If it's fun for you, it's fun for you, no matter what the stereotypes say.

We have a book called "the introvert advantage" which is quite good.

[schrödinger's cat]

Sounds good. I think that's actually a very big thing we can do for our kids - to validate them especially when they're doing or feeling or liking things that don't correspond to the norm. Feeling different is still uncomfortable, but when your own family tells you that you're wrong for being different, that's so much worse. So even just making room for someone's higher degree of sensitivity, that feels so validating already, especially if it's done simply as a matter of course and not as a great big sacrifice for the oversensitive fragile flower.

I find I have to be careful at the level of voice I use on her If I raise my voice then she cries,no matter what I say.

My kid has that too. We sometimes call her our coal mine canary - if there's the eensiest sign that something's the matter, she'll pick up on it and droop off her perch. It means I can't just tell her that she's done something wrong. If I'm upset, she'll pick up on it and think I'm mad at her when I'm simply just annoyed at the situation, not at her. So I end up using humour to defuse the tension. That usually puts her at her ease. Knowing what HS is and how it "works" has made things ever so much easier. Secretly, I've been worrying that I'm simply spoiling her by walking on egg-shells so much. Now that I know where we are, I know a bit better how to proceed.

[Rain]

I've loved your posts, your understanding on HSP that you are learning and sharing, Cat.

The description of your daughter especially!  I've read it several times.    No wonder why you researched so much.    I love how loving you are of your kids, Cat.   So wonderful to read!

And, I still think of, and sooooo laugh of your splendid description of the common school insensitivity to HSP kids ...the "and now we're going to do a fun group activity!"  "   

[noname]

Interestingly my cptsd first reared it's ugly head just over a year ago, shortly after concluding that my daughter was HSP, and me too.  It was sort of a chain reaction.  1. discovery of hsp, 2. recognition of all of my gut reactions to my husbands loud, overbearing, narcissism, 3. attempts to communicate my needs for quiet, calm communication and discussion, along with attempts to explain the importance of his trying to understand my makeup and needs, 4. failed attempts to penetrate his thick skull and make positive changes together (for the millionth time), 5. shut-down/breakdown/full-blown cptsd.

That was just over a year ago.  I'm still with him because I feel like I I have to get to some point of recovery before I can make this life changing decision for my family.  I worry about my kids.

I'm new to this group and am at a stage where I feel a strong need to speak with others in a similar situation.  My friends are great, but they just don't understand.

[schrödinger's cat]

Hi hawk, pleased to meet you!    I'm HSP too, but I only spent a few weeks in close proximity to a narcissist one summer years and years ago, so I can't say much. I can only imagine how difficult this must be for you. I'm glad you're here, and I hope you'll find something helpful here.

[voicelessagony2]

Hi hawk,

welcome. I have a long history of attracting & being attracted to NPD, so I can sorta relate. I also understand about friends... the more I learn about ptsd and trauma, the more I realize the fact that I cannot expect most people to understand, and it's futile to try to explain it to them.

Finding this group was one lucky break for me! Finally a place to be understood! I hope this will be your experience here, too.