Any advice for raging?

[Sigga]

Hi all,

I'm a 35 year old woman, married with two children. I come from a dysfunctional Family of Origin and I have suffered Cptsd through the years; mostly very low self-worth, self-hate and not being able to show/acknowledge feelings.

I moved far away from my Family of Origin 10 years ago and have come far in healing from my past. I believe I can see things from the outside, understanding the madness and games and able to shield myself from assaults and when people are trying to hurt me to make themselves feel better. That part is going good

However, I have this problem in my marriage. My husband also comes from a bad family. Father narcissistic, mother enabler. Father now passed away. Husband has one very badly functioning brother who is Asperger and does not give a s*** about us. Never contacts but now has a new fiancé.
To cut it short my problem is that my MIL is very controlling (in a victim kind of way) and wants us to have much contact with the brother and making sure we are seen as a happy family from the outside. Brother lives far away.
We have two kids and work full time, brother has fiancé and not kids, got his house for free (pre-paid heritage from mother) and gets money from her regularly to pay for big bills, travels and so on (he is 44!!). Still he apparently cannot take his share of the contact....it is always us that have to go to them, think about them, remembering to call them....and no requirements are put on them EVER. All I hear about them is that they are fantastic at the same time as my MIL sneakily criticizes me.

I hate this family and would be happy never to see anyone of them again. They remind me of my own family which I broke free from (mentally at least) and I cannot take somebody trying to control me.
My husband partly sees the dysfunction but is always seeking approval and love at the same time. He is not as far as me on the road to healing...and maybe he never will be or does not want to.

So, when MIL starts being controlling and husband is like a pendulum between being logical and firm and weak/love/acceptance craving I feel I get caught in the middle.

The first  years of my marriage I supported him a lot but I can feel that for the past few years my patience is gone. I hoped I could detach and harmonize my boundaries and let him deal with the family but that has not been the case. Instead I have started raging, something I have never done in my life before! It is mostly on the inside where I feel the rage burning but I also lash out at my husband and feel I hate him during those moments. I tell him I will not be controlled by his mother, I talk badly about his brother and his dead father (they were/are horrible people but still...) and it really shakes me to my very core. During these moments I want to escape, divorce him or worse. My mother raged a lot at my father and threatened to kill him and I don't want to end like her.

This really impacts my life, probably more than anybody else´s but I don´t know how to handle it.
I want to feel inner peace, be firm in my boundaries but at the same time being able to have (limited) contact with the family without being triggered for days, raging, crying, ruminating and acting like a 2 year old.

I comfort myself by thinking my MIL only have like 10 years left. It is horrible to think and I do not wish death for her but this is my only comfort as to thinking when this problem will go away.

A part from this mess I am liked, I have many friends and I am a loyal, trustworthy fun friend. Have had the same friends for 20 years and also some new and have friends from all parts of society. I had another FIL when I was younger and I never had problems with them (other than normal minor problems at times) and still have good contact with them and care for them.
I don´t care for my current FIL, I think they are crap.

Feel like a horrible person to write like this...but it is how I feel.

Please, any advice on how to move on...without divorcing and splitting my family up. My husband is a great man, good father, loyal, good heart, empathic and always makes me laugh. We've had wonderful times through the years but the marriage get poisoned more and more for every year

[Dee]

My therapist had me read the book "The Dance of Intimacy."  I think it is perfect for the situation you describe.  I read it to help me cope with my FOO, especially my sister.  It really is a wonderful book and a quick read.

[sanmagic7]

that can sure get rough, sigga, when those emotions keep building until they're out of control.   i did have to set boundaries with my hub's family - they live next door! - and keep contact with them to a minimum.  i went through a spell of not being able to stand his enabling of them, either.  i hated it! 

i did finally tell him that when one of them comes to the door, i'm not answering it.  his family, his responsibility.  i've also told him that when they asked him for money, which never got paid back, i didn't want to hear him complaining about it.  it was his problem and his to deal with.  i wanted no part of it. 

i continued to extricate myself from his behaviors with his family because my getting angry all the time was not doing me any good, nor him, nor our marriage, like you said.  as i stopped enabling him by listening and being 'understanding', etc., and kept distancing myself from the situation, i was calmer about it.  eventually, he came up with his own boundaries once my support was gone.  it took awhile, i talked about it a lot before i actually did anything about it, but we ended up in a better place together.

i don't know if any of this is helpful for you.  i do know that i finally realized i couldn't change him and how he was going to interact with any of them, so i had to do something about myself.  that's how it worked for me.  it was difficult at first, especially just ignoring when they came to the door, or telling him those first few times that i didn't want to be part of it anymore, but it eventually became easier and things changed.  i wish you the best with this.  families are hard to deal with.

[Three Roses]

My entire life I've had a problem expressing anger appropriately. I focus on the knowledge that feeling angry is not in itself "wrong", any more than having any other emotion is wrong. Emotions are simply a reaction to something. What I've tried to do is lengthen the time in between my reaction and my response. The longer this time is, the more thoughtful and functional my response will be, instead of a knee-jerk kind of reaction.

I also found that "amygdala hijacking" explained a lot of my anger; that some of the actions of people around me triggered me and sent me into an emotional flashback, where my entire system perceived a threat that my conscious mind did not, and caused self-protective reactions. This knowledge helps me not beat myself up too badly if and when I do experience an amygdala hijacking. Here's a link to a helpful article, https://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/51483/handling-the-hijack.pdf which states in part:

We now know there are two minds; one that thinks and one that feels. The research by Joseph Le Doux reported by Goleman (1995), states "...the architecture of the brain gives the amygdala a privileged position as the emotional sentinel, able to hijack the brain." The stimuli comes in from the eyes or ears and goes immediately to the thalamus and it then goes right to amygdala before a signal reaches the neocortex. This survival mechanism lets us react to things before the rational brain has time to mull things over. The hair-trigger amygdala though can be sloppy and distort things in this quick reaction. It has been found the amygdala in animals can respond to a perception in as little as twelve thousandths of a second. So the antennae are up in the amygdala to constantly scan the environment for anything that may hurt us or things to fear.

The author of the book Dee suggested, "The Dance of Intimacy", has another book called "The Dance of Anger" which I found very helpful. It helped me see patterns of dysfunction in myself and the people around me, and how to kind of "step out" of the dances we all do in our relationships. Both books are a good bet to help you gain some insight and tools to deal with your situation.

I'd also like to admit that I totally related to your expressions of how you felt about your in-laws, the only difference being that was how I felt about my FOO. I don't think you're a horrible person - you are just being honest about your feelings.

I hope you find the same support and validation in this website and forum that I and others have found! Thanks for joining.

[Sigga]

Thank you for a great answer!

I realize that I need to do the same for me. Stop thinking about him and how he is acting and set up rules for myself and remember that it is ok for me to have a certain opinion and for him to have another.
I'm always fighting guilt that by going lower contact with his family I'll be betraying him, since he cares for them.

A question: Did your marriage improve in any ways when you had taken the new approach? I've been concerned that if I detach from all of this we'll drift apart or become less close. However, I'm at the point where I would rather want us to drift apart a bit than to continue using my time fighting this bulls***t.

We actually had a discussion yesterday. My husband has this "habit" of complaining about his work every day without doing anything about it. He sounds just like his father who talked non-stop about his work at all family meals, quiet times and acted like he was more special than he was. My husband does not have those grandiose thoughts of himself, but the complaining and endless talking surely is there.
I lashed out at him the day before yesterday when he put up his usual facial expression and starting complaining. I think he does it to get love. I think he learnt from his N father that always had everybody´s full attention that if you talk like him, you'll be seen and get sympathy.

Anyways, I was quite proud of myself because last night he came to me and said he was going to stop talking about his work and I was right that he was always complaining. I said to him that I was willing to talk about his work from one time to other but I would not continue using my precious free time listening to him talking about problems that he doesn´t seem to want to solve.
I said to him that I was going to use my free time after work with my girls, baking pancakes, reading, walking in nature or playing with our cats, not this monologue listening.

Since we had started this conversation I brought the issue with his mother up (without flipping out for once) and told him calmly that I wanted to see his brother every now and then but there would also be times where I would chose to do something else, even if he went visiting. I told him I had used way to much time of my life pampering other people and that was over now. My main priority was myself and family and what suited me, our girls and our energy levels and wishes. I also told him I would not be ashamed to chose for me and them and that I would not sit and listen to his mother complain and request us to do things; I would simply walk away and go and make coffee or read a book.

I think he got my point...so now the project is to keep on stating (and probably mostly showing) my limits.

Sorry, it always gets waayyy to long

[Sigga]

My therapist had me read the book "The Dance of Intimacy."  I think it is perfect for the situation you describe.  I read it to help me cope with my FOO, especially my sister.  It really is a wonderful book and a quick read.

Thanks I'll take a look. I've learnt a lot about codependency (even though practicing it is harder...) and this will be a good addition to that work

[Sigga]

My entire life I've had a problem expressing anger appropriately. I focus on the knowledge that feeling angry is not in itself "wrong", any more than having any other emotion is wrong. Emotions are simply a reaction to something. What I've tried to do is lengthen the time in between my reaction and my response. The longer this time is, the more thoughtful and functional my response will be, instead of a knee-jerk kind of reaction.

I also found that "amygdala hijacking" explained a lot of my anger; that some of the actions of people around me triggered me and sent me into an emotional flashback, where my entire system perceived a threat that my conscious mind did not, and caused self-protective reactions. This knowledge helps me not beat myself up too badly if and when I do experience an amygdala hijacking. Here's a link to a helpful article, https://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/51483/handling-the-hijack.pdf which states in part:

We now know there are two minds; one that thinks and one that feels. The research by Joseph Le Doux reported by Goleman (1995), states "...the architecture of the brain gives the amygdala a privileged position as the emotional sentinel, able to hijack the brain." The stimuli comes in from the eyes or ears and goes immediately to the thalamus and it then goes right to amygdala before a signal reaches the neocortex. This survival mechanism lets us react to things before the rational brain has time to mull things over. The hair-trigger amygdala though can be sloppy and distort things in this quick reaction. It has been found the amygdala in animals can respond to a perception in as little as twelve thousandths of a second. So the antennae are up in the amygdala to constantly scan the environment for anything that may hurt us or things to fear.

The author of the book Dee suggested, "The Dance of Intimacy", has another book called "The Dance of Anger" which I found very helpful. It helped me see patterns of dysfunction in myself and the people around me, and how to kind of "step out" of the dances we all do in our relationships. Both books are a good bet to help you gain some insight and tools to deal with your situation.

I'd also like to admit that I totally related to your expressions of how you felt about your in-laws, the only difference being that was how I felt about my FOO. I don't think you're a horrible person - you are just being honest about your feelings.

I hope you find the same support and validation in this website and forum that I and others have found! Thanks for joining.

Oh yes, the caveman brain. Thank you!

[sanmagic7]

hey, sigga,

not waaaay too long at all.  no apology necessary.

our marriage got much better because there was so much less friction, bad feelings, bad vibes in the air, complaining, all that sort of thing.  the boundaries were clear, i followed through, and that was that.  there was nothing to argue about anymore, so we had more time for nicer conversations, better feelings, more smiles and laughter.  all around us, the mood was lighter and continues to be.

my hub also has done complaining about work, how he's treated, and not doing anything, and that also got to be a pain in the butt  for me.  more conversations on that, same thing - don't want to hear it unless you're going to tell me some solutions rather than just going on and on about problems.   i wasn't quite that abrupt, but that's what the gist of it was.  i got tired of enabling that complaining b.s.  he's also made changes now and the complaining has pretty much stopped.  much better all the way around.

you're right - following through is the main thing for you.  if you say you're going to do something different, it's important to do it, or you won't be taken at your word anymore.  i read somewhere here that you don't have to set yourself on fire in order to warm someone else.  i thought that was a great way of putting it. 

i think part of our responsibility in an adult relationship is to allow the other adult to take care of their own adult problems.  i can support and even help with that if it's applicable, but that's if it is for solving the problem.  i don't have time or energy to just listen to the same old crapola over and over.  if you don't like it, change something.  if you don't want to change something, quit complaining.  i guess i've gotten to a place where i sometimes seem to take a hard line on certain things, but not doing so is what's gotten me into the c-ptsd pickle in the first place.  i'll have no more of that, thank you very much.

kudos to you, sigga.  you deserve to be proud of yourself.  here's to carrying on!

[Wife#2]

Sigga,

My and my husband's roles are reversed but the same as yours. I am the one being close to dysfunctional family while he has escaped and enjoyed years of VLC/NC with any of them.

Since I'm more or less in your husband's role, I can tell you that I was appalled at first that hubby was VLC/NC. That's his birth family! It took years and confirmation that the remaining sibs were part of the problem and never part of the solution for me to realize he was self-protecting. It still didn't occur to me that I could do the same thing.

I knew I wasn't the GC or even the scapegoat - I was the forgettable one. I knew that even before accepting that LC was best for me. It took coming to this website and realizing that I am not a bad person if I separate my life from my family of origin. Even when contact hurt me or triggered me or made me feel horrible about myself, I would insist on remaining in touch.

I understand your feelings of rage and frustration. You know these people are toxic, but because your husband is in contact with them, they are still in your lives. My husband, like you, has had to deal with actual animosity from my family aimed at him. I didn't help matters at all. At that time (when I was still giving them information about my marriage and about him) I was still chasing acceptance and maybe even love. Since then, my husband has assured me that he no longer cares about their opinion of him. As I've slowly been able to accept that I am allowed to not care and to not be in touch, we've been getting along better.

I don't know how aware your husband is that he also has c-PTSD and that his family put him in that position and that he'll be healthier without them. That can be a very hard thing to accept. My encouragement for you is to help him see that he's calmer and nicer when he hasn't been in their influence and that he's more tense and tough to get along with when he has. Teach him that his thinking changes and that those changes are at least in part responsible for your feelings of anger.

I thought of this because I know when I'm around my uBPD/Narc mother, I do change in my attitude and thinking. I don't mean to, I know she's messed up. But, within an hour exposure to her (visiting, talking on the phone) I slip back into my 'how Mom needs me to be so I can feel loved by her' self. By the time I get home, I'm eat up with narc fleas. It takes me days to get over them. The only way to avoid the fleas is to avoid the source - Mom. The longer I do that, and the longer I stay true to who I am, the less my husband feels pushed and treated badly and the less he fusses (used to get very angry at me).

I hope this helps a little. I've been in your husband's shoes, my husband has been in yours. It stinks for everyone involved. Helping him understand HOW he changes after exposure and how that affects your feelings may make a difference. Helping him understand that it is NOT a bad thing to separate from a toxic family may help you. Maybe take baby steps - lets try going a week without talking to or seeing anyone in your family. Let's just see how a week would be. Then, two weeks. Then a month. He may actually be able to tell the difference in himself!

[Three Roses]

He also may not be ready to go LC or NC with his FOO. Be gentle with yourself, and with him too - there are hurting children in each of you that need a gentle touch.

[Blueberry]

Wife#2: What does the 'u' in uBPD stand for? Keep seeing lowercase 'u' in acronyms and I'm not understanding...

[Wife#2]

Blueberry - that means undiagnosed. You might also see it undx for undiagnosed. Just means we're 'armchair expert opinion'-ing here.