Low contact with father and the root of social anxiety

[Rainydaze]

My uNPD father keeps pushing me to speak to him on the phone. I don't want to speak to him on the phone because he is passive aggressive and my anxiety does not need it. I feel better off not speaking to him. The digestive problems I have every single time I deal with him are testament to that.

He sent me a text message asking to speak on the phone after already being told that I prefer to communicate by email and text message. I've reiterated again that text message and email is the best way to communicate with me. He responded asking what's going on with me and calling me rude. I responded just now saying that I'm sorry he feels that way but I don't think I'm being rude, I'm just not comfortable talking on the phone at this present time and I'm asking for that to be respected. I finished the message off telling him that it needn't be a drama.

Now the ingrained shame response is kicking in. Am I being rude? Treating a normal, rational person the way I am him would be rude but my father invented rude. I could have retaliated listing a whole bunch of things he's done which are rude (usual narc things: belittling others behind their backs, shaming, not phoning me for 3 months!) but I didn't because that would be attacking him and the whole point of this isn't that I want to be mean to him, this really is just me wanting to protect myself and grow as a person.

I think that I'm starting to realise that the hold he's always had over me is the fear over how I'm perceived. I'm laying down a preference for my own wellbeing for the first time ever and he can't deal with that, so in his eyes for not conforming to what he has shaped me to be I'm being 'rude'. The next challenge will be trying not to care about being called that, because my whole life has been dictated by what people think of me and the fear of saying and doing the wrong thing in case I upset people. I hate the thought that anyone could think I'm being a mean person, but I think he knows that and has played on it. I've always wondered why I'm so fearful socially and I think that he has nurtured that attitude in me. I think this must be the root of my social anxiety: the belief that if I stand up to anyone or step out of line that I'm a bad person, so to avoid that I must be hypervigilant about doing and saying what other people want me to. It seems so simple.

I still feel on edge and horrible though even after this revelation. I feel so alone too. I was the scapegoat child who lived alone with him for years so I got the full-on emotional attacks from him. Into adulthood I feel like I'm expected to just ignore that it all ever happened and function like a normal adult. I'm well aware that I look to other people as though I'm being rude, difficult and nasty to him but I don't feel like I can heal if I have a direct line with him verbally as I don't have the assertiveness and conversational skills to protect myself. 

Really hoping I'm on the right track with the course I've chosen. The other option is to submit and miserably live in fear of phone calls from him. It just doesn't feel right to myself to do that anymore. 

[Candid]

I'm so sorry you're going through this, blues_cruise. I too was the scapegoat in my FOO. I'm now NC with all of them but there was a time when father, sister and brother were all putting pressure on me to spend time with my cruel mother. It nearly drove me insane, accusations from all of them, particularly Dad saying: "You've upset your mother."

Now the ingrained shame response is kicking in.

That's his legacy to you, right? Abusive parents know exactly where our pain buttons are, because they installed them.

I could have retaliated listing a whole bunch of things he's done...

But there's no point, because he wouldn't remember or would outright deny it, telling you you've always had a vivid imagination. That's straight out of the script NPDs all work from. 

this really is just me wanting to protect myself and grow as a person.

Exactly. I remember this feeling, that I could somehow have FOO on hold, get better and go back to them. It's the most pressured time.

I think that I'm starting to realise that the hold he's always had over me is the fear over how I'm perceived. [...] my whole life has been dictated by what people think of me and the fear of saying and doing the wrong thing in case I upset people.

Yes, me too, and I'm only now starting to shake that off, about 25 years after the last time I was in a room with my mother. I had criticism and remarks from all round over my social awkwardness, and so few friends that I couldn't afford to offend anyone. But eventually I realised 'no friends' was better than frenemies, and started shedding. I'm still very isolated and lonely but I don't want back the ones I shed. The ones I kept are gold.

I think this must be the root of my social anxiety: the belief that if I stand up to anyone or step out of line that I'm a bad person, so to avoid that I must be hypervigilant about doing and saying what other people want me to. It seems so simple.

Simple... and soul-destroying. For too many years I had people around me I didn't trust, and they were so diverse I couldn't imagine introducing them to each other. I was a copy of A when I was with A, of B when I was with B, etc. Put them in the same space with me and who would I be? Very likely they'd end up laughing together at me.

I still feel on edge and horrible though even after this revelation. I feel so alone too.

You've found this forum, and you have friends here. The beauty of that is that while our stories are all different, we're all coming from the same understanding and diagnosis. I reply only to posts I can identify with; it becomes a process of finding out Who I Am. The friends I didn't shed are the ones who are most like me, and therefore bring out the best of me.

I'm well aware that I look to other people as though I'm being rude, difficult and nasty to him but I don't feel like I can heal if I have a direct line with him verbally as I don't have the assertiveness and conversational skills to protect myself.

I know.

Really, it's no one else's business if you choose not to speak to your father. Is he complaining about it to flying monkeys?

I'm sure it's getting harder and harder to respond to emails and texts, too. Texting him that "it needn't be a drama" is the kind of placatory ending I wrote in letters to my parents, pre-email and cellphone. Ugh. I wish I hadn't bothered.

You're at the point where you're pulled between loyalty to your father and loyalty to yourself. At this stage it looks as though your Self is finally having a win: you're standing your ground about phone conversations. It's not surprising that far from a victory, it feels new, strange and dangerous. But hang in there, blues_cruise! We're all behind you.

[sanmagic7]

hey, bluescruise,

i don't think you're being rude at all.  i do think you're putting up some self-care boundaries, and i know that whenever i've done that one of two things has happened - a pos., healthy person in my life accepts and respects them while a neg. person in my life somehow makes me feel bad about doing it.  it has never failed.

i think you did a wonderful thing for yourself.  hopefully, the victory will be eventually realized.  give it time.  these people have insidious ways of making us doubt ourselves whenever we do what we need to take care of ourselves.  i'll do a little victory dance for you - you join in when you feel ready!   

[Candid]

a pos., healthy person in my life accepts and respects them while a neg. person in my life somehow makes me feel bad about doing it.  it has never failed.

[Three Roses]

in his eyes for not conforming to what he has shaped me to be I'm being 'rude'.

Or, he doesn't see you as rude at all, and totally understands, but is trying to suck you back into the dance. 

My dad used to do the same, it was difficult to not take the bait.

[joyful]

Bluescruise--
Just wanted to say that your post perfectly expressed everything that's on my mind right now that I'm not sure how to put into words. it was really good for me to hear that and know i'm not alone.
You're not alone either 
I think you're definitely doing the right thing. It's not selfish to put yourself first or hold your boundaries. I don't know all the answer by any means, but I do know that. I'm still working on putting it into practice, but I know that it's not wrong or selfish; it is good and right.

[Rainydaze]

Thank you so much for your kind responses everyone, I'm very much in the FOG at the moment but you've helped me feel far less alone in this. 

Really, it's no one else's business if you choose not to speak to your father. Is he complaining about it to flying monkeys?

I'm sure it's getting harder and harder to respond to emails and texts, too. Texting him that "it needn't be a drama" is the kind of placatory ending I wrote in letters to my parents, pre-email and cellphone. Ugh. I wish I hadn't bothered.

You're at the point where you're pulled between loyalty to your father and loyalty to yourself. At this stage it looks as though your Self is finally having a win: you're standing your ground about phone conversations. It's not surprising that far from a victory, it feels new, strange and dangerous. But hang in there, blues_cruise! We're all behind you.

Thank you Candid.  I do keep telling myself that it's no-one else's business what I do which helps a bit. I would imagine he is complaining about me to anyone who will listen but I think he's fallen out with any friends he did have or hasn't bothered maintaining friendships with them, so anyone he does complain about it to will be 'new' acquaintances who don't even know me. His former best friend who my father mistreated and took for granted for years confided in me a few years back when I bumped into him while out shopping that he thought my father had been horrible to me and he seemed genuinely concerned about how I was doing. I often focus on that conversation when I start doubting myself because blatantly it was evident to at least one person that I wasn't the nightmare child I was painted out to be.   

My father hasn't even bothered trying to email me, he texts me but only to try to guilt me into speaking to him on the phone. I have an old, separate phone which I've kept just to use to communicate with him and my new phone he doesn't have the number for. This way I can check the old phone for messages when I feel strong enough and I don't feel ambushed in day to day life. You're right, it's getting harder to respond to his messages because they're nothing but pain for me. I'm only really keeping that line of communication out of obligation and guilt and I think if I'm honest with myself it's not really working out. I now fear checking it and when I do check it I'm left feeling anxious and terrible for days on end. I think I might have got to the point where I will need to ask my husband to check it for me, then he can let me know if it's anything worth responding to or whether it's a message that's going to make me uncomfortable.

You're right, though I've been assertive in my response to him which I know is the right way to be, it feels so new and dangerous. I don't feel like I can turn back now though even if I wanted to because I don't want to be a doormat anymore. I reached a similar point about a year and a half ago when he hadn't contacted me for 3 months because he was guilt tripping me, then it felt so overwhelmingly bad that I extended the olive branch to him and was the first to get back in contact. When we spoke on the phone again he was passive aggressive by trying to guilt me about not calling him and not visiting his aunt who I barely know (seriously). There was no apology or any acknowledgement of wrongdoing on his part, even though he had been the one to react badly just because I had had to cancel looking after his dog for a weekend. That's where it all started! Just a simple 'no' earned me 3 months of silence in which time I pretty much had a breakdown and could not function.

I hope as time goes by I do start to see this as more of a victory. At the moment I'm constantly analysing everything, even running his words over in my head in a battle where I'm trying to convince myself that I must be the bad person. I don't know why, it's just habit. I've always been the one to submit and assume the bad guy role because it stops further nastiness for a while. It's such a core reaction now that it's hard to break out of.

Yes, me too, and I'm only now starting to shake that off, about 25 years after the last time I was in a room with my mother. I had criticism and remarks from all round over my social awkwardness, and so few friends that I couldn't afford to offend anyone. But eventually I realised 'no friends' was better than frenemies, and started shedding. I'm still very isolated and lonely but I don't want back the ones I shed. The ones I kept are gold.

I had a 'best friend' for years in my high school/college days who constantly belittled me to make herself feel better. She would get jealous and possessive if I got friendly with anyone else and I didn't want to rock the boat and upset her, so for years she was all I had. So many years of resentment built up and when we went to separate universities it all came to a head in my own mind and I cut ties with her. Years later we reconciled, only for her to pretty much react badly again when I did something she didn't like (in this case I took a raincheck on a meeting we had planned as I had so much work to do, apparently that was a terrible thing). I realised then that frenemies just weren't worth keeping around. I think when you're submissive and tainted by abuse from parents then unfortunately people sense that and take advantage. I know exactly what you mean.

hey, bluescruise,

i don't think you're being rude at all.  i do think you're putting up some self-care boundaries, and i know that whenever i've done that one of two things has happened - a pos., healthy person in my life accepts and respects them while a neg. person in my life somehow makes me feel bad about doing it.  it has never failed.

i think you did a wonderful thing for yourself.  hopefully, the victory will be eventually realized.  give it time.  these people have insidious ways of making us doubt ourselves whenever we do what we need to take care of ourselves.  i'll do a little victory dance for you - you join in when you feel ready!   

Thanks sanmagic. I'd like to think that if I had a child who asked me to communicate differently I would do so because I just wanted to make sure they were OK. I might be upset but I think I would reflect back on whether anything I had done might have caused them to feel uncomfortable and would let them know that I was there if they needed me. I'd like to think that any decent human being would do that. I think his complete rigidity shows how much of a negative presence he is in my life.

Hehe, hopefully I'll start to feel better soon and can meet you on the dancefloor.  It's really nice to have the reassurance that what I'm doing is OK, I'm in so much doubt at the moment.

in his eyes for not conforming to what he has shaped me to be I'm being ‘rude’.

Or, he doesn't see you as rude at all, and totally understands, but is trying to suck you back into the dance. 

My dad used to do the same, it was difficult to not take the bait.

I find it hard to tell because I've relied on other people for so long for pointers on how to behave without assessing whether what they're telling me is true. For me, if I hear that I'm being rude then I automatically think that I must be a terrible person and should apologise. It's only starting to register that maybe other people can be wrong about such statements, particularly him. He has no moral compass and treats people with contempt so I know he's the last person I should be listening to. I only need to look at the number of friends and neighbours he's fallen out with over the years to see that. It's just hard putting the challenge into practice when it's so ingrained to assume I'm at fault.

Bluescruise--
Just wanted to say that your post perfectly expressed everything that's on my mind right now that I'm not sure how to put into words. it was really good for me to hear that and know i'm not alone.
You're not alone either 
I think you're definitely doing the right thing. It's not selfish to put yourself first or hold your boundaries. I don't know all the answer by any means, but I do know that. I'm still working on putting it into practice, but I know that it's not wrong or selfish; it is good and right.

Thanks joyful.  I often question whether I blow all this out of proportion in my head and it amazes me when other people say they are experiencing similar issues. It's good to have validation that what I'm doing isn't a terrible thing. I'm glad you could relate to my post and feel less alone. 

[Candid]

You're right, it's getting harder to respond to his messages because they're nothing but pain for me. I'm only really keeping that line of communication out of obligation and guilt and I think if I'm honest with myself it's not really working out.

I know. FOG kept me going for far too long. Decades, when I didn't know about CPTSD, I only knew I was "bad". Well done, having a separate phone for him!

I've been assertive in my response to him which I know is the right way to be, it feels so new and dangerous. I don't feel like I can turn back now though even if I wanted to because I don't want to be a doormat anymore.

Once your eyes are open you can't close them again, much as you may wish to. I know how painful this is.

There was no apology or any acknowledgement of wrongdoing on his part

As someone else has said, God Himself doesn't forgive without sincere apology, which means more than just "I'm sorry", it includes a sincere promise not to do it again. We know our abusers will do it again, because we've been round the houses before.

I hope as time goes by I do start to see this as more of a victory. At the moment I'm constantly analysing everything, even running his words over in my head in a battle where I'm trying to convince myself that I must be the bad person.

I've done this for far too long, too. It's easy to get stuck there... unless we keep repeating it on the forum and take on board the kindness and encouragement we find here.

I think when you're submissive and tainted by abuse from parents then unfortunately people sense that and take advantage.

Yes, we actually attract bad people and repel good ones, because kindness doesn't feel right! 

It's really nice to have the reassurance that what I'm doing is OK, I'm in so much doubt at the moment.

I still need a daily antidote to my unhappy ruminations, too.

I've relied on other people for so long for pointers on how to behave without assessing whether what they're telling me is true. For me, if I hear that I'm being rude then I automatically think that I must be a terrible person and should apologise.

Yes, the self-doubt kicks in all the time at criticism from others. I start questioning myself, and then the moment for assertiveness is gone, or I overreact and then have to apologise and feel worse than ever.

It's just hard putting the challenge into practice when it's so ingrained to assume I'm at fault.

Yeah. 

It's good to have validation that what I'm doing isn't a terrible thing.

We're establishing relationships here that, with time, should make IRL relationships easier and happier. I sure hope so, for you and all who post here.

[Rainydaze]

Thanks Candid.  I haven't checked my phone for any responses from him for a week and over this time I've decided to go no contact with him. It feels extreme and 'bad' but my days are entirely filled with worrying about receiving messages from him and ruminating on the past and as a result I'm completely exhausted all the time. There is absolutely nothing healthy about remaining in contact with him. It's really hard and I know it will get harder as the penny drops with him and the rest of the family, but I feel like this way I'm being true to myself and giving myself the space I need to get on with my life. Would be so nice to have a time machine and go forward a couple of years so I can just bypass the oncoming fallout of this. 

We're establishing relationships here that, with time, should make IRL relationships easier and happier. I sure hope so, for you and all who post here.

Yeah absolutely.  It saddens me that so many other people on here have been hurt and abused to the point of struggling to cope on a daily basis, but it is wonderful that with the internet we can find each other and don't have to suffer through it alone.