Need a reality check

[Slow River]

I need a reality check.  I don't know what to think about the things that happened to me as a child.  On one hand, my parents both used to hit me, and so did my brother.  They called me names, isolated me from my peers, pretended to not understand when I talked,  and so on.    I have emotional flashbacks, dissociation,  lots of depression and anxiety, I have extremely weak boundaries, etc.  So that would suggest that I have cPTSD.

But on the other hand, many of these things happen to lots of people.  Until the 1970's or 1980's most parents used corporal punishment, so hitting a child isn't so unusual.  Lots of kids feel isolated from their peers, get called names, and so on. 

My question:  Is what I went through really so different from a typical childhood?  And if not, why doesn't everybody have cPTSD?  I often have the feeling that I'm just whining.  I feel like I am having an extreme reaction to a little bit of unpleasantness.  I feel like I should suck it up and get over it.

And then I think this:  If an adult physically hurt a child (grabbed the kid and broke an arm, for instance), it wouldn't matter if the adult's actions were harmless to most kids.  Maybe one kid had especially weak bones, or if the impact just happened to be at a precise angle, or there was some fluke that caused one kid's bone to break in response to stuff that would leave most kids unhurt.  In that case, the kid still needs full medical attention, and it still counts as a broken bone, even though other kids' bones didn't break under similar conditions.  So perhaps I was unusually delicate emotionally.  If I got cPTSD from stuff that wasn't unusually bad, it is still cPTSD, right?

Any thoughts?
Is this a discussion anybody else has with themselves?
Anybody have success resolving this kind of thing?

[Candid]

my parents both used to hit me, and so did my brother.  They called me names, isolated me from my peers, pretended to not understand when I talked,  and so on.

Would you call yourself the family scapegoat? Because it sounds like it from what you've said.

I don't know about "typical" childhood but I get the impression most parents love their children and get a lot of satisfaction raising them. What you describe as your childhood isn't stuff a good-enough parent would do. It sounds like they enjoyed your suffering in a sadistic way, and that's more than enough to leave you with C-PTSD. It's an enormous betrayal of infant trust, and infants have to trust their caregivers and keep soliciting positive attention, because without those things we die.

I see a lot of people here (and I'm one of them myself) who just didn't know when trust and asking for positive attention became a problem. It isn't for all those "normal" families you see, where the offspring never have to know what this type of betrayal is like, nor how damaging it is for every relationship afterwards. It's not like getting financially ripped off or beaten up as a teenager or adult (although both of those things and more tend to happen more often to those of us who were abused as children).

I can pick the adults whose parents adored everything about them, and supported them no matter what. Those lucky ones are like a different species to us. They can't begin to understand the way our minds work, nor why we fall into depressions and negativity. They feel invincible, as though the nurturing they received inoculated them against the stresses and strains of life.

There may be more behind your question. Perhaps you want to convince yourself it wasn't so bad, so you can go on having a relationship with the people who treated you as much less important and deserving than your brother. You can do that without minimising what happened to you. All it means is that you have good self-esteem and are able to negotiate attachments that feel at least acceptable to you as an adult.

[Blackbird]

I considered these issues as well, although our situations differ.

I think that abuse is abuse, whether it is generalized or normalized. I agree with Candid, these are classic scapegoat questions. "Was it really that bad?", "Was my behaviour to blame?", "If everyone did it to me, than maybe I was the issue."

The truth is that you have the symptoms, the dysfunctions. Treating them and overcoming them is all that matters.

[Slow River]

Thanks to both of you for answering.

My parents were so dismissive of my protests and complaints, and I don't have a good idea of what is normal or okay.  I do think that sometimes people should be expected to carry on, even when conditions are not ideal, and I do think that sometimes people whine about small misfortunes that are really no big deal.

I was never beaten black and blue.  There were no guns involved.  Nobody was drinking.  I was provided with food, clothing, education, etc.  I was not a refugee or in a concentration camp.  Nobody died.

Candid, you said:
I get the impression most parents love their children and get a lot of satisfaction raising them. What you describe as your childhood isn't stuff a good-enough parent would do. It sounds like they enjoyed your suffering in a sadistic way, and that's more than enough to leave you with C-PTSD.

I sure never got the impression that my parents got any satisfaction from raising me.  I consistently felt like a burden, and that they resented my existence and were disappointed with me.  I didn't feel that they enjoyed or even noticed my suffering, but of course, I didn't have an objective perspective.

What is behind my question is that I want to believe that it WAS that bad.  I want to know that I'm not "making a mountain out of a molehill", as my mother would say.  I want to know that my feelings have a basis in something real.  I want to be able to believe that I'm not just feeling sorry for myself because I'm weak and a whiner, and making excuses for being a loser.  If there was a dynamic going on that I suffered from, and that it wasn't my fault, than somehow, my suffering becomes more bearable.  I want to know that I'm being reasonable.

[Three Roses]

Sometimes it's more about what you didn't get ... nurture, support, laughter, hugs, tenderness. A child needs to feel loved, and without that they are left - we got left - holding the short end of the stick.

[Blueberry]

Slow river, you are being totally reasonable! I do really understand all your queries, because I've been there multiple times in my life and on into my healing journey. The type of things said to you were said to me as well. Parents dismissive of protests and complaints are not doing their job as parents.

There's a saying, I think it might be a quotation from Susan Forward in Toxic Parents: "The bruises can be on the inside too." (or something like that)  Where physical or sexual abuse are permitted to happen, emotional abuse automatically takes place. Emotional abuse is not to be discounted. It is real and it is devastating, especially if done by one or both parents.

I grew up hearing "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me." This is nonsense. Of course words hurt. If they didn't, why would my FOO have said so many hurtful things over the years with such malice?

I've heard of children traumatised by their parents' divorce. Really traumatised, with a diagnosis. Although generally one thinks that most children get through OK, even if it's a difficult period in their lives.

Anyway, welcome here  I'm sure if you read around on here you'll find posts that resonate with you now or with you as a child and you'll come to believe that what you went through was really bad, even if there was the odd mitigating factor. I've been told that without those odd mitigating factors, we would have either gone completely crazy or died.

[Candid]

I was never beaten black and blue.  There were no guns involved.  Nobody was drinking.  I was provided with food, clothing, education, etc.  I was not a refugee or in a concentration camp.  Nobody died.

All of that is true for me, too. But my mother, subsequently aided and abetted by Dad and my siblings, installed self-hatred, self-doubt and self-destruct buttons in me so She didn't have to beat me, I would do it to myself, whether I was with Her or not, all my life, no matter how far I travelled, even after she died. I don't think they knew this was what they were doing, but that it suited one or two messed-up people to have someone to blame, someone to be angry at. And I know for a fact that She enjoyed my suffering and must have found some relief in it for her own issues. There was no bad situation she couldn't and didn't make worse for me.

One of my many therapists lent me a book about a man who'd been "beaten black and blue" as a kid. I believe she was telling me: "There. It wasn't so bad for you, now was it?" But bruises and burns show on the outside. The boy was rescued and got help. He's published at least three books about his life. No one, least of all him, can question what he endured as a child. He's had a mountain of validation. When the battering is aimed at the child's mind and heart, validation is (to put it mildly) hard to come by. As shown by your thread starter, we question it ourselves, endure the madness of thinking our memories must be at fault, because the people who were there (the abusers) will never agree with our account. Of course they don't! When the psyche is battered, and relationships with the wider world are compromised, who's going to believe us? In fact, who can believe us when we've been taught to doubt ourselves?

I consistently felt like a burden, and that they resented my existence and were disappointed with me.  I didn't feel that they enjoyed or even noticed my suffering, but of course, I didn't have an objective perspective.

Yes, they might 'only' have been the abandoning, can't-be-bothered type of parent. Perhaps you arrived at an inconvenient time, were the wrong gender, or something. That's hardly your fault, is it? Being ignored and/or considered a burden as a child leaves you feeling less important than everyone else, obliges you to apologise for your existence wherever you go. I don't advocate parent-hating, but I do wholeheartedly support the victims of poor parenting, and that means knowing where accountability lies. Think of it this way: you just arrived on another planet, there are bigger people all around you, you're terrified and no one seems to notice. When they finally do notice, they show every sign of being annoyed. How safe do you feel?

I want to believe that it WAS that bad.  I want to know that I'm not "making a mountain out of a molehill", as my mother would say. 

I bet she would. Slow River, your childhood was as bad as you say it was; it was your childhood, after all. There's no point asking Her about it, is there? I don't believe anyone since the dawn of time has ever said: "Yes, I was a bad parent and I treated you shabbily. I'm so sorry. How can I make it up to you now?" And I'm guessing that for much of the time She was the only witness.

I'll point out some things She told you about yourself:
You're always feeling sorry for yourself
You're weak and a whiner
You make excuses for being a loser.
All of that is as true of me as it is of you. I choose to believe
I'm always on my own side, even when no one else is
I've had to be very strong not to kill myself
Whenever I know better, I do better

If there was a dynamic going on that I suffered from, and that it wasn't my fault, than somehow, my suffering becomes more bearable.  I want to know that I'm being reasonable.

Well, you've arrived!  You're being more than reasonable, you've given Her the benefit of the doubt a few times too often, and now your suffering will be more bearable. You're among friends now. 

[Blueberry]

  or to be more precise, I fully endorse Candid's 1st and 2nd paragraphs.

From "I bet she would...." to the end, I get what Candid is saying, but Candid is still coaching me through fully endorsing it for myself and acting on it. Right, Candid? 

[Candid]

Pshaw, I'm just yakking up a storm with my good friend Blueberry. Someone will have to tell me if I'm talking too much. I blame the coffee.

[Blueberry]

I'm only speaking for myself here, Candid. It's good to hear that you're feeling a bit better. I'm hearing that between the lines. I don't mean massively better, but a bit. 

[Wife#2]

Pshaw, I'm just yakking up a storm with my good friend Blueberry. Someone will have to tell me if I'm talking too much. I blame the coffee.

If that wisdom is spilling out of coffee cups, sign me up for whatever Candid is drinking!! PS - I deeply enjoy every cup of coffee I can get.

Slow River, you don't get EF's and dissociation from a perfect childhood. It just doesn't happen. I'd be willing to bet, when you first found this site, you read a little, saw some of the horrific stories, went back out to the web, took some of those 'Am I CPTSD' type tests (after taking the Am I BPD or Am I Narc tests and being told No, NO and NO!) and having them say, 'YES' - especially when answering instinctually and honestly. I could be wrong, but that's essentially what I did. I really couldn't believe that having an emotionally absent mother (yes, child of 70's, even the teachers had paddles, of COURSE, Mom did), absent-for-work Dad until the divorce, then just plain absent, GC brother who got away with too much horrible teasing and bullying - but very little physical action. It was nearly ALL emotional abuse and neglect. It's enough. You qualify and you don't even have to take anymore of those tests or doubt your reactions anymore. It's true. Ignore something long enough and it will go away - including your self-esteem and your capacity to trust. Your parents ignored that - it went away.

WELCOME!! The best things about this website are the people - who've all been there one way or another. We share, build relationships, help each other when we can. You've found a home - you belong - we WELCOME you!

[sanmagic7]

slow river, if it hurt you, if you have repercussions to deal with because of the way your were treated, or if you feel you need to excuse or compare what happened to you, i'd say it was abuse.  people who are treated lovingly, kindly, and carefully, are accepted as they are without expectations, and were taught how to have personal boundaries, which were then respected would never be confused about what they were treated like compared to how others were treated, would never question if such wonderful parenting was right or wrong,.  they learn how to accept and love themselves and grow up to have healthy relationships, both with themselves and with others.

that's my take on all this.  it ticks me off that we have had to be the ones walking around in a confused state, not knowing ourselves what abuse looks like, when it really should be so plain.  it's part of the horror of this beast called c-ptsd.  big hug to you.

[joyful]

Hi Slow River!
Like everyone else, I completely relate to what you've said. In my family there was TONS of emotional manipulation, overt and covert (i think those are the terms lol..) there was unhealthy amounts of control, and enmeshment.
even as I write that I can hear myself saying "that doesn't sound very bad at all..."  I don't know how to describe it to capture how bad it really was, but I feel like I can get a better sense of it by describing the effect it's had on me.
One thing I try to remember is if someone told me their story, i would never say "that's nothing! you're just being oversensitive!" I'd understand. I would know that seemingly small things are so damaging.
Pretty much, ANY and ALL abuse is abuse. I feel like everyone for the most part says things like "oh it was just emotional abuse", or "they only hit me once or twice, nothing that bad."
This reply has gone all over the place... but to try to sum it up: Honor yourself and your story, just like how you'd honor someone else's.
Sorry if that made no sense... 

[Slow River]

Thanks to all of you.  I do feel as though I am among friends now.  One of the hardest things I've experienced is on the few occasions I've opened up to people and told them about my experiences, they have not understood and brushed me off.  I don't open up to many people.

It is also such a relief to hear people talking about dissociation and depersonalization.  I have dissociated a lot, for as long as I can remember.  I don't know anybody who I would trust to tell about that.  As for depersonalization, I have always done that as well, but until recently, I didn't know it was a thing.  Sometimes, I look about me and confirm "I'm at the park now." or "Paul is here now." or whatever, because if I don't take notice in a deliberate way, I am sometimes unsure which level of reality i spent the afternoon in.  (I think this is depersonalization.  Perhaps I don't have the term quite right.)

So, thanks, you guys!  I'm  learning more everyday, and what I'm learning is 1. The reason I'm depressed is that I have been living in a nightmare, and 2.  I do have friends here who understand.