My mother's subtlety

[smg]

"Hints at unnatural cruelty" and chewing noises!!!!! That's great!

[schrödinger's cat]

Well, it just felt so bizarre that I think the memory would be more bearable if I picture it with a voice-over by David Attenborough. "Here we see the undiagnosed narcissist in her natural habitat."

[Brandy]

Brandy, I wonder if I have the conversations with my mother (once they've been started by her) partly as punishment, partly because I think/hope that I can straighten out some things and stop some of the same-old accusations. I don't know if I'm ready to just instantly cut her off.... Maybe I'll take some time to think of and write out some goals and strategies, so that I don't have to decide what I'm going to do when she does call, just remember what I've already decided.

I thought about it for a good four years before cutting my mother off. Sometimes I wish I'd done it sooner, but I know I wasn't ready for it. That's a good idea to think of some goals or strategies. In those four years I tried many things to make contact bearable. She was nasty and miserable regardless of anything I did or didn't do.

I had rules about contact long before making the final cut, too. She was not able to call me out of the blue whenever she wanted. She had to make an appointment. If it wasn't appointment time, I was unavailable. No exceptions. If she didn't give me enough notice, I would get back to her after the time she had wanted had passed, even if I could have technically made the time. I was busy busy busy. Even with all this control, she still found ways to pick at me so eventually I just gave up.

[Butterfly]

So much good information in this thread. Absolutely love the idea of asking permission to have a deep conversation. And when you think about normal social graces one does often ask another if they have time to give a serious topic due attention rather than just jumping in and attacking.

I think you're smart to avoid deep conversations or seeing a therapist together with your mother. It's like banging your head on a brick wall, only gonna give you a headache. I had several of those 'let's make peace' conversations over the years. That wasn't the real intention of the conversation. The object of the conversation was to get me back into compliance and to stop living my own life, to go back to being a puppet. It was always a big giant hoover not a genuine attempt to understand me. It worked, up until last year, no more, done. My response as of last year is 'there's nothing wrong' because in all honestly there is absolutely nothing wrong I am perfectly fine living my life as if it's mine to live. What is "wrong" is that I'm not living my life with her as the center of my universe and that is her ideal reality not mine. I've stuck with the 'nothing is wrong' long enough for her to stop asking and for her to realize this is the way it is take it or leave it.

For now I am LC with uPDm and use ultra MC and exit at the very first sign of trouble = off tone of voice. However, uPDm is a sniper with her comments much like you describe sandwiching one liners in between niceness. Still I went back and called her on a few of them and it's been months since she's attempted anything again. (Kept it simple, just inserted 'no I don't feel that way' and resumed the change of subject, just establishing and reinforcing my individuality)

The suggestion to never be alone with her is good too. I'm rarely alone with uPDm and it's been beneficial. She doesn't want to be seen in a bad light, appearances are everything.

Like two praying mantisses

Thanks for the visual! Like two ninjas moving in slow deliberate circles!

come to understand (and more recently accept) that she is simply not capable of honest self-reflection and emotion because of her PD.  She is broken and her tactic has and always will be to make herself look good which means she will do anything, including slam me to achieve that. I refuse to ever be vulnerable around her any more because I know I will pay so I get that you don't want to try therapy - there's just no real point. 

This sums it up so very well.