Have to

[Blueberry]

I have "have to" over in the Employment section.

More is coming up of what FOO thinks I "have to" do. Like last time I had contact with FOO altogether I was told I "have to" put up with the rudeness of one SIL. The reason: that's the way she is and she's not going to change. But actually the one who passed on that gem admires the rudeness, sort of a bravado thing. SIL says what she wants when she wants to whom she wants (people who are unprotected like me, the family scapegoat). She's very clear on what she is permitted to say to whom in whose presence. SIL is very capable of making it quite clear who is acceptable to her, who she includes in her little circle, and it isn't me. (There's more behind this than you might think, but I can't write about it yet, so comments on this last sentence not useful.)

The other example of rudeness: she kept slipping "mental health issues" into the conversation. Pretty obvious she's targetting me.

Anyway that's the way she is.... This is the way I am and although I am trying very hard to change some aspects, I am working very hard on some things, I shouldn't have to change in order to be accepted by you, FOO.

I wasn't even asking her to change substantially, just give me a break. But no, her spontaneity was more important apparently. When I made a spontaneous comment, I was immediately shut down by both sibs. Can't write more on this.

When I looked at this issue last year with my T, he encouraged me to see it not just as an issue with my SIL but with FOO in general. I think now SIL is taking on a role (or roles?)  that's somehow vacated in the extended family. Power vaccuum? In she goes to take up the slack. But she's clever. She knows how much she's allowed to offload on her MIL (my M) or how much not. She knows that M(IL) is somewhat protected from her. She knows how much she can divert onto me instead; she knows nobody in FOO protects me unconditionally from anybody else within FOO. Whereas she herself is protected from me by not just her husband but my other B too; F thinks he is there for me and thinks he was in my childhood too but if he can rise a laugh with some remark (e.g. about me) he will do so, which goes down well with SIL - she does this too. Nobody stands up to her. She doesn't do it about everybody, just about people in a noticeably weaker position than herself.

Probably all "classic scapegoat", but I feel a need to write down what's coming up.

SIL can do this because she gets away with it. Same as B1 in my childhood (and later). Possibly somebody outside my extended family could see a solution here, other than NC. They do, one person said recently "you have to get over this" but she didn't say how. To which I answered: "Or slowly give up on contact, which is what I'm doing." She actually accepted that. At least she didn't argue anyway.

Last fall I did a visual representation of my extended family and both therapists recommended I keep my distance so as not to get sucked back into the vortex, and that if I ever have personal contact with FOO again then not alone, take somebody, a trusted somebody with me as a psychological body guard.

As for solution, maybe some giant moving pieces around the board could work a solution... It became clear through the visual representation that the whole family is mucked up (what a surprise, Not.) I'm sure everybody would 'have to' change, not just me. That's exactly what they seem generally not prepared to do.

[Candid]

Ugh! SIL sounds like someone to be avoided if you can. It isn't fair that your sibs shut you down. I have experience of that myself and I know how horrible it is.

Anyway that's the way she is.... This is the way I am and although I am trying very hard to change some aspects, I am working very hard on some things, I shouldn't have to change in order to be accepted by you, FOO.

Yes, good for the goose is good for the gander, I say.

I too remember being the butt of family jokes. It would be nice to think they're all laughing on the other side of their faces now I'm no longer there as target.

Extended family member sounds like a potential ally. I have my own psychological bodyguard for that. Be prepared for abusers to slip something in under bodyguard's radar, and take more overt shots should bodyguard leave the room for a minute or more.

I'm sure everybody would 'have to' change, not just me. That's exactly what they seem generally not prepared to do.

I know you know that's an unworkable plan. Just a thought: when the scapegoat removes herself, everyone else has to change anyway. It also provides a breathing space in which to work on yourself without constant interference.

[Blueberry]

Don't worry, Candid, there's no chance in * that I'm putting myself back in any kind of FOO situation atm!

You're right, this is the gem atm: "It also provides a breathing space in which to work on yourself without constant interference."

Thanks for reading, answering, validating! 

[clarity]

Oh yes... so much the same for me too. Sister with mouth like a viper and everyone validating her!! Eh?! Confuses the * out of me. I went NC with her over 2 yrs ago as could not stand it anymore.  I'm also seen as the fruitloop.  Oh the blessed relief in the NC.  The peace!! Still quite amazed that I have done it despite the guilt.  Wish I had the courage to be all inclusive with FOO.  Feels like a wobbly tightrope...

[sanmagic7]

this family stuff can be the worst.  just going thru more of the same because my bro dragged all my nc's back into my life.  so, i'm now struggling with all the emotions, etc. that raised their nasty heads again.  and this was all behind my back.

i feel for you, blueberry.  at least i'm not face to face with them - i can't even imagine how upsetting that would be.  your strength is shining like a star in a black hole.  i quite agree with you that all the other fam. members will not change - i certainly know none of mine have.  the safest route for me to is stay away.  let them hack and and bite with each other - i just don't want to be part of it anymore.

interesting, your observation how sil only does this stuff to people she perceives as weaker.  same here.  that's why i see them as predators.  what we can do is find our strength and get out of their line of sight.   that's how i see it, anyway.  big hug to you, and best with all this. 

[clarity]

Emotional intelligence and the willingness to be vulnerable ( a prerquisite for healing) must I think smell to them like fresh meat!   

Predators for sure... its hard to be self approving when we seem to fit the shoes of the 'prey'... but I would rather be an antelope than a crocodile, a rabbit than a hyena etc etc.... interesting that so many predators are a bit creepy looking!   So sorry Simon and Garfunkel.... not the hammer. But rather a magical bendy nail that knows how to avoid the blows.

Here's to you Blueberry and your growing and owning your loving kindness as a shining badge of honour.. 

[Blueberry]

Thank you so much everybody for validations and understanding. It really means a lot. 

Clarity "the willingness to be vulnerable" very aptly put. I hadn't thought of it, but yes, it's a prerequisite for healing. Clarity is obviously a good name for you, with your clarity on this  I agree, I'd rather be the magical bendy nail than the hammer, tho my T is coaching me in allowing myself to hammer on the table (as opposed to on people) loud enough to be heard but not damage the table. Before I'd whisper maybe... and damage myself.

San, I'm going through it in my emotions and in my head now. Geographically I'm far away from FOO. I was face-to-face with them last year. They were helpful getting me out of there, but not keeping me there. They didn't seem to realise with that that they were sealing their own fates. Actually I didn't realise either until I'd got home and was processing that 1) I'm not putting up with that behaviour towards me anymore (and it's not just SIL's) and 2) that's it!!! THE END, Finito. They've had enough chances, they've blown them, whether they understand that or not or care or not, which will vary by person I'm sure. I am through with it. Well, not quite 'through'. I'm still processing the emotions.

I've actually been VLC to NC before. So FOO has really blown it now. Some of them have actually changed a tiny little bit, but it's soooo slow, it's way too slow for me. If I stay there waiting for their changes, my life will be over. I'm approaching 50 now and I want to live my life not continue to enable theirs.

In the previous session in T, we were working on 'have to' with trauma-informed methods. That's where the image came of whole extended family: grandparents both sides, parents and B1, all of them saying "you have to put up with this / us" whatever exactly it was. Putting up with "this" meant putting up with them and their problems and inability/unwillingness to change. So same thing.

San, SIL2 does it to people she sees as weaker, especially the vulnerable (where it's obvious nobody is going to back them up), but she's very deliberate about it. She seems to be a very good parent, from what I can observe. The parenting skills are certainly not all coming from B2.  She strengthens her children, the ability is obviously there not just to attack all weaker objects. My M tended to attack weaker objects too, including her own children. So I guess SIL doesn't have quite the same issues, but she has some.

I think SIL2 is attempting to sort out FOO's problems by attacking me. Whereas actually she needs to get B2, her H, to do some boundary-setting or even just boundary-accepting. M put me way too close to them at last FOO deal. I asked B2 in advance "Are you sure??? Is this really OK for you?" And he said that it was, in fact I was "welcome". Actually I wasn't at all, which became clear when it felt too late for me to do anything about it. The EF was certainly there, getting worse by the hour or even minute. I personally didn't even want to be there, that close to B2 and his FOC, but I felt I had no choice. I "had to" put up with it as it seems in my chronic EF state when I have contact with FOO. Most of these are hindsight realisations anyway.

I FOO member obviously didn't see anything wrong with this, he was trying to help, right? I felt a bit violated, but I didn't say anything. I 'had to' put up with things.     (For personal reasons, I've removed the example.)

[sanmagic7]

i hear ya, blueberry, on those 'intentions to help'.  i've just been going thru this ef cuz my bro wanted to help, went to my sis, etc. etc.  i'm just glad for you that you finally were able to get to the place of saying 'enough!'  that's a big, important place to get to.

when you spoke of your sil being such a wonderful parent, i have to admit, the first thought that came to my mind was 'we don't know what goes on behind closed doors'.  if her kids see/hear her behaviors toward you or others, they're getting a pretty unhealthy message right there on how to be an adult.  my sis also looked to be a good mom - from what i hear, her grown kid moved away and has little to do with her anymore. 

i'm just glad for you that you've been able to get out.  and, sorry that you had to go thru that at all.  as far as taking your post down, always do what you need to do to keep yourself feeling safe.  it's so important.  big hug, sweetie.

[Blueberry]

when you spoke of your sil being such a wonderful parent, i have to admit, the first thought that came to my mind was 'we don't know what goes on behind closed doors'.  if her kids see/hear her behaviors toward you or others, they're getting a pretty unhealthy message right there on how to be an adult. 

This remark from you has given me a lot of food for thought! Thank you so much. I took it into the garden to process, which is a good place for me for processing. While doing a bit of weeding and a bit of feeling the earth and the plants. Anyway tomorrow I'll maybe write some of the realisations down. They are big, and without your comment I wouldn't have even thought of them now. Maybe in a few weeks or months, but you've speeded it up. Thank you 

[sanmagic7]

blueberry, as long as something helps, i'm just very glad.  love that you have your garden to go to.  i miss mine so much.   big hug.

[Blueberry]

when you spoke of your sil being such a wonderful parent, i have to admit, the first thought that came to my mind was 'we don't know what goes on behind closed doors'.  if her kids see/hear her behaviors toward you or others, they're getting a pretty unhealthy message right there on how to be an adult. 

This remark from you has given me a lot of food for thought! Thank you so much. I took it into the garden to process, which is a good place for me for processing. While doing a bit of weeding and a bit of feeling the earth and the plants. Anyway tomorrow I'll maybe write some of the realisations down. They are big, and without your comment I wouldn't have even thought of them now. Maybe in a few weeks or months, but you've speeded it up. Thank you 

So, here are the realisations I had while pulling weeds:
1) SIL is teaching her kids that it is OK to behave differently (e.g. very rudely) towards 'outsiders' than 'insiders'. 'Outsiders' are not strangers, they are people SIL holds in contempt or maybe even perceives as a threat (??). That's what's behind discrimination in all its forms: shutting people out who are different from you. She wouldn't treat her DH or her kids the way she treats me, but you're right, San, this very discrepancy is sending her kids a bad message about how to interact with and treat other people.

SIL also does a stand-up comedy show at the expense of others, those weaker (or perceived to be so) than herself. This is partly her 'spontaneity' which I 'have to' put up with. Her kids may or may not copy this. It's a bad model, laughing at others. I haven't noticed too much that she laughs at herself. If you did a bit of both, it maybe wouldn't be so bad  but only at others outside your sacred circle?? Niiiiice. No, not at all.

2) She is also teaching them to create this very strong cohesive bond, which is so strong that 'outsiders' feel it. It is a good thing to have a strong cohesive family bond in your FOC but if you display it so strongly towards people you've invited to be around you, that's sending pretty mixed messages. Like on previous occasions B asked if I wanted to go for a little stroll with them so I did but SIL spent the whole time sending out her message: 'You're not part of the group here, you're not wanted'. I could sense it physically. Children learn so much by example, I can't imagine that they won't pick up on this type of behaviour too.

3) Up until now I've been seeing SIL still partly through the rosy glasses of her DH, and also not having much to compare with in healthy parenting, I thought that she's so good. Partly she is, I have observed things and thought "Wow! That's a healthy way to protect your kid." She and my B have also embraced some very creative, new ideas on upbringing which I've seen in action and thought: "Wow, this is really helpful for the kids."

The discrimination towards me is based on: "Blueberry is too sick for us". This is BS as I'm sure most of us on here are aware somewhere or other in our souls. Speaking solely for myself, I have a lot to offer in friendships, in dealings with people. I get on well with children, so long as I'm not overwhelmed with too many.  The kids even liked having me around, they showed that.