Housemate telling me I'm too polite...

[writetolife]

For the last couple of weeks I've been living with a family that took me in so that I didn't have to live with my abusive father anymore. 

And the 17 year old daughter in the household has starting telling me that I'm too polite and so it makes her feel like she has to be really polite.  She told me I'm allowed to be grumpy. 

And basically I don't know what to do.  I'm figuring out that I'm a big fawn-type (Pete Walker's 4 F-types - fight, flight, freeze, fawn), and I'm trying really hard to be patient and nice In order to not make people angry.  But if being nice frustrates her then, what the flip am I supposed to do not to irritate people?  On top of it, sometimes I'll do something and she'll tell me, "See that's what I mean.  You're being too polite," so I worry about hearing that.  I think part of what she's saying is she doesn't understand why I don't set more boundaries.  But sheesh...I'm half tempted to set a boundary and tell her to stop because she doesn't understand what I'm experiencing.  She doesn't understand that I'm just learning to feel and act like a person separate from the world around me.  I'm just learning to believe that I have needs and wants that are legitimate. 

[joyful]

I have needs and wants that are legitimate. 

you do.
I'm sorry my mind is fuzzy and I can't think of the right response, but I wanted to let you know you were heard.

[Dee]

First, she is so very young and probably can't get what you are going through.  Still, my guess is unknowingly she is talking about boundaries.  Setting a boundary with her to stop saying that is a big step. 

[Candid]

I understand what you're saying, writetolife, because I'm also a fawn type with a big dose of freeze in there too. For most of my adult life people have told me things such as "you always seem to be apologising for yourself" and "you don't seem to like yourself". I hate this image of myself as a creepy crawling Uriah Heep, especially when I see it parodied in movie and TV comedies. That means I understand how annoying it is for other people. I also have a flipside: although I'm known as 'quiet' and do my utmost not to give offence, occasionally the brakes fail and I know I come across as passive-aggressive at those times. I've lost friends with that.

I believe the answer lies in self-compassion -- knowing we're not really this way, it's the CPTSD acting out -- and acts of assertiveness when we can manage them.

Obviously the answer is not to apologise to the daughter of the house. Classical assertiveness includes how you feel about the situation, a description of the other person's triggering behaviour, and perhaps in your case a description of what behaviour you would prefer. Eg. "When you say I'm too polite, I feel scared. I've moved in with your family because my father was abusing me, and it'll take me a while to feel relaxed here.  You can help me with that."

I really do sympathise. I'm living with my mother-in-law and have been tiptoeing around her for nearly a year...

[sanmagic7]

i really like candid's suggestion about being assertive.  sounds very good.  maybe it'll work for you, if you feel up to giving it a shot. 

i've done something similar, walking on tiptoes, apologizing a lot, especially when in a new place.  it's like i didn't know the 'rules' yet, so i didn't really know which way to go, how much i could assert myself, what was expected of me, etc.  speaking up and letting someone know, tho, sounds really good to me.  i wish i would've thought of that before.  it would've saved me a lot of angst. 

best to you with this.  big hug.

[clarity]

In my twenties I shared a couple of digs with other people and was so polite I ended up retreating into my room and becoming virtually invisible. (Repeating birth pattern as was left in the garage as baby..) 

Politeness is a spectrum I guess, and the further we go along it the more we apologise for our existence. ( like Pete Walker apologising for bumping into a chair!)  We are trained into existing too far along the politeness spectrum..as it suits the narcs.

I relish now being able to set boundaries and still be free to be my loving self within those boundaries...I say no and 'disagree' quite a lot! Kindly....we can be assertive and kind...its a magical combination that one.  Also noticed recently holding back from saying sorry and choosing not to, and realising thats ok over trivial things...the world didnt grind to a juddering halt...

Great idea to just say how its making you feel! You are allowed to be you, unique and full of your own needs and opinions..... there is plenty of room for you in this universe!! 

[Candid]

In my twenties I shared a couple of digs with other people and was so polite I ended up retreating into my room and becoming virtually invisible. (Repeating birth pattern as was left in the garage as baby..) 

Oh snap! I've been doing that here, so MIL and I are reduced to "good morning" and then that's it for the day. I stay out of her way as much as I can. Oh, and my teenage bedroom was the garage, too.

I relish now being able to set boundaries and still be free to be my loving self within those boundaries...I say no and 'disagree' quite a lot! Kindly....we can be assertive and kind...its a magical combination that one.  Also noticed recently holding back from saying sorry and choosing not to, and realising thats ok over trivial things...the world didnt grind to a juddering halt...

This is very inspiring! It's a tough act for we fawns to be assertive in someone else's house, though. MIL makes it clear this is her house, and she wants us out. H can have fights with her but that's beyond me, so I do a lot of handing him the bullets.

I think writetolife could potentially have a good friendship with the 17-year-old, if 17-year-old is happy to play mentor.

[CranberryJuice]

I literally signed up just for this. I can tell you what's going on because I'm older and have dealt with people complaining more when I was in my teens than ever. Not sure why it happens between K-12 more often than any other stage, but it does.

First, as a (grim) note: be careful what you tell her, she may not empathize. She could also be a little wacko herself. I'm coming to understand that what makes us constant targets is being honest about our experiences. Somehow it's some weird form of advertisement for those who are crazy to apply their crazy onto us and color our vision as to how the world works.

The crux of all of this is that this person is actually expecting you to manage her emotions. Are you this person? You're not... So, how can you cause her discomfort if you're not harming her or anybody or anything else in any way? You're not placed there to make anyone feel any way about themselves. You're there to get through your day/life. It's up to her on how to take the presence of another individual. If anything, she needs to know that you are not her anytime she comes up complaining. I agree that you need to be upfront and draw a line for this reason, and if she continues, keep drawing that line and give her consequences if she fails to understand that what she is doing is not right by your terms, and adhere to the consequence(s) if the time comes to do so (which I know can feel like it's hard when it's not even your place).

[clarity]

Gosh YES CranberryJ.... honesty seems to be like honey for bears to them. I spent yeeears being honest with foo, baring my bones and so confused why it didnt help...in fact gave them ammo. So I modify my previous post... be careful!   

It makes me so very sad/angry 'Sangry'! That we have to adopt these tactics when we are the ones who are closer to our true natures. Its pants. Discernment...we have to learn discernment. Sniffing out the abusive and being cautious....sigh. 

[writetolife]

I didn't expect so many responses.  Thank you!

I apologize that I can't quote you all, but for some reason I can't make the formatting buttons work right...

Cranberry Juice, thank you so much for reminding me that her feelings are her responsibility.  Heavens knows I do need to work on a lot of things, especially boundaries, but not to make her happy.  That's just the same trap all over again. 

Clarity, I totally tend toward disappearing into my room, too.  It feels so much safer.  It's a small enough environment that I can control it, and I can avoid people who scare me.  It's so cool that you enjoy being able to set boundaries. I look up to that and hope to be there someday. 

Goodness, guys, boundaries are so hard.  I'm reading Townsend and Cloud's book "Boundaries" and finding even that triggering. 

[Candid]

It's so cool that you enjoy being able to set boundaries.

I agree.

1. Retreat, hide, yield and feel rotten
2. Set a boundary, fail to maintain it, but take note that the sky didn't fall in
3. Set a boundary and enforce it and feel good

Seems to me part of the problem is our childhoods having taught us we have no rights. I very often feel the urge to say something but I have to think too long about whether I'm being unreasonable, and then the moment passes...

[CranberryJuice]

Heavens knows I do need to work on a lot of things, especially boundaries, but not to make her happy.  That's just the same trap all over again. 

[...]

Goodness, guys, boundaries are so hard.  I'm reading Townsend and Cloud's book "Boundaries" and finding even that triggering.

No big deal on the boundaries part. Nobody actually talks about boundaries in a way that makes sense and is clear. At best, people make it sound like you just say 'no' and it goes away, or you keep saying 'no' and it goes away. I'm still learning what it means and it seems like that's not how it works. You have to be relentless and kinda ruthless about the consequences. For instance, say you're friends with someone you think is super great and they keep doing things to hurt you, but you like them so much. You gotta tell them to stop or else you'll no longer talk to them. As much as it hurts for you to lay that down on them, you gotta follow through with no longer talking to them if they continue, and even if years later they pop up and don't seem to have gotten the memo and understood the repercussions form the past, still gotta enforce that consequence, no matter how much you like them.

I've also read that enforcing boundaries for people like us is more for practice for ourselves than it is for our FOO or primary abuser(s) to adhere to. From the information I've gathered, it seems like the only real option is to walk away in some form.

I read this article a few months back on boundaries. No idea where it was from as I had my browser on incognito when doing it. It said you know when someone does not respect your boundaries when they get irrationally mad. It explained it better than I just did, but it pretty much said that when someone takes it as your no and explode it into a personal offense, that's actually them not happy about a boundary and wanting to cross it. I try to keep it in mind, especially as someone who when asserting themselves is called selfish.

I'm not too much older than you, but I sure wish that I knew what I knew earlier because I've been actively working to try and figure it out.

Thank you so much for everyone who found value in my post. It's been a while since that's been the case... Facebook makes people very angry and defensive and other awful stuff.

ETA: One more thing people fail to explain is forgiveness. I found a podcast on NPR that might be helpful. It's called Forgiveness Isn't All It's Cracked Up To Be.

[Three Roses]

Hi, thanks for joining - here's a good explanation of boundaries and what happens when they're repeatedly violated:

http://www.new-synapse.com/aps/wordpress/?p=1911

Hope it helps

[Blueberry]

Thanks so much 3Roses!       That's a seriously good article (your link) for anyone with serious problems with self-care, like me.

[Candid]

Wow, that was a sobering read!

An extract:

The person with disabled boundaries due to trauma history can be:

Currently Being Violated. They can be in a relationship that is always violating their boundaries, and they don't know it. Or they do know it but are helpless to leave for a huge number of valid reasons.

Free But Vulnerable. They can be out of the relationship, but all their boundaries are still broken. Boundaries do not rebuild themselves. I think it does take a lot of therapy to begin the process of rebuilding the fence, door, etc. In this situation the person is very vulnerable to new boundary violations from others (not just romantic partners but friends and random people).

New Relationship, Boundary-Confused. The person can be in a new relationship that isn't necessarily violating any boundaries but they will have boundary confusion – they won't know when their partner is, and when their partner is not, violating a boundary.

and this:

Some Self-care Questions

Here are some questions to ponder about self-care.

1. Have you ever experienced confusion around what self-care means to you?

2. Were you ever in a situation in which, if you stood up for yourself or revealed something about yourself, you would be harmed (physically or verbally/emotionally).

3. Have you ever been in a position in which if you tried to take care of your emotional needs it would threaten your physical survival?

4. Have you ever been hit by someone who loved you and who you loved? This includes spanking which is a huge boundary invasion.

5. Have your boundaries ever been violated to the degree that they were eliminated from existence?

6. Has anyone ever treated you like your physical space, personal space, body, somatic knowing, intuitive knowing, emotional space, autonomy, ideas, senses, or opinions were irrelevant? Did having these things "out of the picture" ever come to feel normal to you?

7. Do you remember a moment in which the integrity of your person on all levels was held in the highest respect, and you could feel, physically, in your body, this sense of complete integrity, or did this only happen before your first memories (as a newborn baby) and was lost early in life?

8. Has anyone ever been possessive of you? Were you unaware that they were holding onto you as strongly as they were, because it felt normal to take on someone else's needs?

9. Does being loved feel like it has something to do with being merged with another, being enmeshed, being entangled, making their needs and wants your own?

10. Has anyone ever made their needs become yours without your consent?

11. Have you ever been forced to do anything against your will by someone you love?

12. Does being loved feel like it has something to do with being controlled, being overpowered, being swept away?

13. Did you learn to like being invaded because it's familiar and feels like home?

I really needed to read this today. Waking up feeling so ill, and immediately getting set for yet another day of self-destruction. The prescribed answer (of course ) is finding the Self with a therapist. Back to that horrendously long waiting list, wondering whether I'll live long enough to see my number come up...