Getting the Groceries

[clarity]

On a good day I can be 'normal'.... but aware I feel normal so of course this is a contradiction in terms.

On a typical cptsd day...a trip to the supermarket is horrible. Takes an AGE to get ready to go out. Faffing about, procrastinating, trying to work out best time to go, feeling anxiety about leaving the house, leave house hope neighbours are not outside, fake smile hello if they are, sigh of relief once in car, feeling conspicuous while driving car for chuffs sake!, dreading arriving at shops, sinking feeling when arrive, start of running the gauntlet, feeling conspicuous again, get trolley, usually squeaky wheel aagh, anxiety high, knotted stomach, trying to remember what I need, really tired feeling like lead, so far to walk, want to drop it all and run, dawdle and take too long choosing things, getting irritated with self and other shoppers, feeling crowded even if its quiet, dreading checkout,  face feels frozen, hard to even say hello to cashier, feel stressed trying to unload and pack bags, embarrassed as too slow, fumble hurry to pay, rush to car, rush trolley back to park it, sigh of relief get into car, really conspicuous driving home, hope neighbours are not outside, rush bags into house fast as possible, lock door and relief plus shame about what a crazy deal I made of it all, hungry comfort eat and try to self care not Inner Critic myself. Oh shoot, I forgot about 5 things.   



I wondered how other people cope with this everyday thing?!

[Kat]

That sounds absolutely dreadful.  When I read it, I just kept wondering what it must have been like for you to go to the grocery store as a kid with your mother or father.  I oftentimes find that the places where I feel most anxious are the places where my mother or father felt most anxious and took it out on us kids.  My mother hated trying to take us kids clothes shopping, so that's a time when I become anxious and irritable to this day. 

It's kind of funny now to think about this, but it would take my mother an eternity to cut a cake.  She always tried to be so precise and have all the pieces be perfectly equal in size.  Into adulthood, when it was my birthday and friends would try to hand me the knife to cut the cake, I just couldn't do it.  I would try to get out of it, but friends would go on about it being tradition for the birthday person to cut the cake, but I just couldn't do it.  I was so fearful of doing it "wrong" in front of everyone.  I don't know when it finally dawned on me how ridiculous my mother had been.   Now I cut the pieces in vastly different sizes on purpose!

It feels so awful to feel so vulnerable and seemingly naked to the rest of the world.  Be gentle with yourself.  None of those feelings come from nowhere, and they aren't you.  Can I offer you a hug?

[Lingurine]

Clarity, crazy at it sounds, you have such vivid descriptions, they made me giggle a bit. Because...it sounds so familiar to me. You have a great talent for writing, and about the grocery shopping: when you absolutely have to go: make a list. In that case, all your efforts are not in vain.

What I do: I do the grocery shopping online and let them deliver. Problem solved. I so get this problem and am happy they deliver at my house. I have time to look for good offers and my anxiety doesn't go to the roof, and I have time for other, more important stuff.



Lingurine

[Blueberry]

Takes an AGE to get ready to go out. Faffing about, procrastinating,

Clarity, this is me in general. I mean, exactly. I faff about. I find other things to do. I still haven't left. I put it off some more. Two hours later... Maybe decide not to go at all. And if I try and hurry, it gets worse. I forget vital things like my money. So I'm sorry you have this problem too, but otoh I'm glad I'm not the only one. 

Mornings are particularly bad, it can take me 45 minutes to get out of the house, even without eating breakfast. Though I do feed my pets before I go since it's not their fault. I usually pack my bag the night before, that helps me

On a typical cptsd day...feeling anxiety about leaving the house, leave house hope neighbours are not outside, fake smile hello if they are, sigh of relief once in car, feeling conspicuous while driving car for chuffs sake!, dreading arriving at shops, sinking feeling when arrive, start of running the gauntlet, feeling conspicuous again, get trolley, usually squeaky wheel aagh, anxiety high, knotted stomach, trying to remember what I need, really tired feeling like lead, so far to walk, want to drop it all and run, dawdle and take too long choosing things, getting irritated with self and other shoppers, feeling crowded even if its quiet, dreading checkout,  face feels frozen, hard to even say hello to cashier, feel stressed trying to unload and pack bags, embarrassed as too slow, fumble hurry to pay, rush to car, rush trolley back to park it, sigh of relief get into car, really conspicuous driving home, hope neighbours are not outside, rush bags into house fast as possible, lock door and relief plus shame about what a crazy deal I made of it all, hungry comfort eat and try to self care not Inner Critic myself. Oh shoot, I forgot about 5 things.   

I wondered how other people cope with this everyday thing?!

This sounds very similar to how I used to be, except I'd be walking not driving, and feeling horribly conspicuous to the point of not wanting to exist. I was so self-conscious and expecting to be openly ridiculed on the street by all and sundry. 

If I had to wait too long at a shop for some information or advice, 'too long' I'd notice with my anxiety levels spiralling out of control, then I would just leave and go back some other time.  Or in a grocery, I would maybe leave with only part of my list bought because I couldn't handle any more time there. I think if I remember rightly I was fairly self-forgiving about not being able to buy everything all at once. Also back then I often shopped at a farmer's market, where sellers often know you by sight and know that you're a bit slower and accept you that way. It's sort of part of their customer service.

Other than that I can't remember off-hand how I dealt with it. But - the good news - it has got a lot better  Some of it is hardly a problem at all any more and other stuff a lot less. I presume that is just one of these improvements that has taken place without me working on it specifically. That happens - suddenly I notice I'm not frightened of xy or exhausted by pq any more and I haven't even been working on it in therapy. It just happens.   

[Kizzie]

I could have written your post Kat (funny how that happens here all the time  .  I do have one 'trick' which was to clear the clutter from the garage and actually park the car in it so I can pull right in and back out without running into neighbours.  And it isn't just about having social anxiety, it's about survival as I have a lot of neighbours, one fellow in particular, who will pin you down and talk to you forever if you let them.  (Small town, older residents who are retired.)

We have new neighbours across the street and the woman used to walk her dog towards the chatty fellow's house, at least she did for the first week.  She has a neat trick of letting her hair fall forward and looking down at the road when she's walking the dog so you can't catch her eye - my hair is too short for that but I thought it was a good idea.  However, she soon realized this particular fellow wasn't going to just let her go by.  Nope. She doesn't walk her dog that way any more. In other words, there really are neighbours everyone wants to avoid.  I swear blinds go down and people duck behind garbage cans when he is walking down the street which he does at least three times each and every day.   

Yesterday I went to the dentist and thought I'd just stop quickly at the grocery store for a few things, in and out.  Hah - because my entire left side of my face was frozen and yes there was drooling,  all kinds of people wanted to talk to me including a women handing out religious pamphlets.  Either she didn't understand when I told her I am an atheist or liked me, because she came over to say hi today as I was trying to nip in and out for something I forgot yesterday.    

I guess what I'm saying is that my social anxiety has come down by letting myself see a bit of humour in it.  For example, when I start to feel that self-conscious feeling steal over me I will jokingly say to myself (not out loud of course) "Oh yes Kizzie, everyone is fascinated with you, watching your every move - NOT!" And it's true, we think people can see right into or through us, but they can't and moreover, they've got their own things going on they're thinking about. 

So, some gentleness and humour may help.

[Blueberry]

I oftentimes find that the places where I feel most anxious are the places where my mother or father felt most anxious and took it out on us kids.  My mother hated trying to take us kids clothes shopping...Be gentle with yourself.  None of those feelings come from nowhere, and they aren't you.  ...

Thanks for that explanation, Kat. I'd never thought of the stressed out parent connection! I have a lot of problems buying clothes. I have to be in a really good state to consider even trying clothes on, and I'm very picky about what shops I go to. It's just a sort of sense about what shops exhaust me least. There's a very cluttered second-hand shop I go to, and that's fine. It's bizaare. You'd think that would exhaust me more. My M hated taking us clothes shopping, especially in the country we emigrated to. In her home country it wasn't so bad, but when we were there on holiday 'obviously' she didn't want to waste any time going clothes shopping.

I had two bad experiences as a child buying the 'wrong' size of grocery item and being ridiculed and criticised to high-heaven by M, and denounced as stupid, incompetent etc. I remember both times humming and hawing and choosing wrong both times. So that might be an added stressor when shopping. So you're right, these feelings of mine and Clarity's aren't really ours and they might fall away some time with more healing, as most have in my case (though not the clothes shopping).

[clarity]

Kat - thanks for that hug!  And yaay for your unique sized cake pieces!    I don't remember shopping with my parents, except for clothes too, which was not good.   My mother was permanently exasperated and so everything was done in that tightly wound way.... assume this applied to food shopping too. 

Lingurine - am glad it made you giggle!  its humour that gets me through most of the time.. thank goodness I have a profound sense of the ridiculous.  it was actually fun to write in a way and helped me see the craziness of it all.   I have started to drive to the furthest away supermarket from the house just to avoid FOO who all live within few minutes of me.  It has helped a bit.. its aircraft hangar size and feels quite empty most days. Crowded aisles are just NOOOO ...... had my only ever true panic attack in a supermarket about 12 years ago.  Thought I was dying!   I can't do the online thing as I like to physically feel and see what I am buying, but glad that works for you!

Blueberry - brilliant that its got better for you.  I get glimpses of this on days when for whatever weird reason I feel relaxed about it.  Trouble is when I do, I talk to myself as I shop... getting some very funny looks!!  Learning to embrace my oddness... its' quite endearing really 

Kizzie -  Now I could do with a garage like that but ours is full of 'STUFF', so my car sits outside and necessitates a 5 step dash to get to it! 


I suppose that food shopping is really the only thing that 'forces' me to go out.  I have gotten really good at inventive cooking - the sort that happens when you look in the virtually empty kitchen cupboards and because you couldn't go out, involves making a meal out of one egg, a tin of anchovies and half a cucumber. Hmm .... there have been such yummities!  My poor hubby.  It is better these days.... I revert to poor eating habits and want to binge when there is nothing much left ( just noticed this recently) and so am making efforts to go more regularly to stock up, despite the angst. 

[The Magician]

Clarity,

Same. On an anxiety scale from
0-10, errrands rate a 7 or 8 for me.

I'm a proponent of prolonged exposure. Can't beat it if I don't join it. I TRY to remember my CBT steps, and to breath, but easier said than done, eh?

Trips to the grocery store with my uNM were mini, biweekly nightmares (she liked to cram in the shopping for a family of six after we'd run out of food).

Keep on keeping on. I hope you're so proud every time you accomplish it!!! Much love.

[clarity]

Hi Magician... welcome.. 

yes, perseverance is all we got!

Tomorrow is the dreaded hairdressers.  A whole other story!!!

In a nutshell - female blahblah, invisible in chair, forced conversation, who is this person I am pretending to be?!!!  build up of flight energy for 2 hours, scalp hurting nobody understands that it hurts when you scrub like that despite me asking you to be gentle!!! drinking way too strong tea to be polite, trying not to run out of the salon in relief at the end of the whole ordeal.

I'm pretty sure that 100 years ago I would be in a mental asylum.

[Kizzie]

I had to go into town and get my hair cut and pick up some things yesterday and was thinking of your post. At one point I looked up and saw that I had dawdled away a couple of hours on the computer, and it was closing in on noon before I got going.  So, I feel the anxiety too, just not quite as deeply as I once did. 

Something that was helpful for me was a post one mbr made here a few years back when my social anxiety was through the roof. She talked about other-referencing and self-referencing which I'd never heard about. We are other-referenced when we constantly scan the environment and people in order to keep safe.  And with CPTSD that's a given.   

So when we go out, we are in effect pulled out of our selves, we are "naked" - we feel exposed and vulnerable because in essence we lose track of our selves.  No wonder when we step back in the house we feel relief, safe, like we can just get back into our selves again (be self-referencing) and relax. I think one of Pete Walker's clients described it as having a zipper that anyone can tug open and see inside. That really resonated with me.  So wanting to run out of a hair salon seems to me a normal, even sane and healthy reaction given our experience has been that people will hurt us if they see our vulnerable selves. 

What to do though?  In my case I just started trying to be more self-referencing and use CBT to challenge my thoughts/feelings that I was not safe in the world.  And it has helped over time. Yesterday when I saw I had dawdled, I laughed and got up from the computer, told myself "It's OK to feel some anxiety given what you lwent through as a kid," gave myself a hug and headed out.  (I also told myself "It's OK, lots of people procrastinate about doing chores"  because it's not all about social anxiety   )

I don't know if this will help, but thought I'd share it FWIW.  Hope the hair appt goes well. 

[clarity]

Ah thanks for that Kizzie ... I see that I do something additional which is 'stopping myself from other-referencing by choosing NOT to look, but then end up feeling weird because I am not self referencing instead!' if that makes sense?!!  very aware that I am 'not looking around at them', so in a way I still am locked into the other referencing.  Gosh, I really AM other referencing... hypervigilance in disguise- hah!

I love your gentleness with yourself... I'm pretty ok at that now too, and it feels SOOOOO good doesn't it! 

I probably err too much on the side of self mollycoddling actually .... its a fine line perhaps.... because it is such a relief maybe I loaf about enjoying it when sometimes it would do me good to have a kindly boot up my behind!!  the 'yang' or self fathering part is still new to me, and just the word father makes me shudder, so that needs some attention... but Im not rushing it. has been HUGE for me to self-mother... and am still figuring out what to do re NM in my life... so the father thing can wait a while until it's time.  Good to identify it tho.... thankyou for your post- its helped a lot.  Writing always helps me see stuff.   

[The Magician]

Yes yes and yes to everything.

I HATE GETTING HAIRCUTS!!!!

You've got all my (virtual) strength for your errands tomorrow.

[Kat]

Oh, my gosh!!  I always thought I hated the hair salon because my mother used to cut my hair so short I was confused for a boy.   During the time I'm in the chair I notice my muscles are tensed and so I consciously relax them only to have to do it again and again and again.  I always bring a book so I don't have to talk...as much. 

Kizzie, what you said about the other-/self- referencing is fascinating and makes a lot of sense.  Love this forum! 

[Libby12]

Hi everyone.

All the talk of hair salons has given me the perfect opportunity to ask people's opinions on something I have always wondered about.  Like kat, I hated hair cuts because I always had to have a boys haircut,  which combined with the boyish clothes they chose and a boyish shortened form of my name, I really felt like a boy.  This explained a lot of my hatred of hair salons.

But here is my query.  Nm often told the story of how when I was a year old, she tried to cut my hair herself and made a real mess of it. From knowing her so well,  I know she would have been raging and upset and probably angry with me.  I was rushed to a hair salon as soon as father came home from work.  Could her extreme stress have affected the one year old me and set me up for a lifetime of stress in this area of life.  There were lots of other stories of my very early years which also follow this pattern so I do wonder if I am not making too much of it.

Libby

[Blueberry]

Nm often told the story of how when I was a year old, she tried to cut my hair herself and made a real mess of it. From knowing her so well,  I know she would have been raging and upset and probably angry with me.  I was rushed to a hair salon as soon as father came home from work.  Could her extreme stress have affected the one year old me and set me up for a lifetime of stress in this area of life.

In my experience, yes. Too exhausted myself to explain further.