Emotional Flashbacks

[globetrotter]

Yes, anger can fuel passion, that is true. The anti-freeze! Har.

I like the thought of hyper vigilence being "acute observation mode". I swear I miss nothing!
Honestly, looking at the list of 'symptoms' so many of these are so entrenched in my being, I assume that's just a part of livin'. Hrm.....

[Rain]

Well, if Martians ever invaded Earth, me thinks all of us in our hyper vigilance would be the first to notice, and then to knock them back out into space!!

Everyone else would just be grocery shopping, etc....

[schrödinger's cat]

Oh yes. If we could harness this to... hm, say swordfighting... we'd be like those guys in the movies.

Normal guy: "Hm, did you see that bloke who just came in? He looks a bit suspicious..."
CPTSD guy 1: "You mean the one with the two loaded pistols, the concealed stiletto, the blood-stained cloak and the poisoned dagger?"
Normal guy: "Uh... yes?"
CPTSD guy 2 (joining them and sitting down): "It's cool. I took care of him."

Globetrotter: antifreeze? That's brilliant.

[Rain]

 

[Kizzie]

Anger as anti-freeze - love it GT!!     

[Butterfly]

Congratulations on standing up to your uPDm! 

I like the Spock thing. Putting myself into a mindset where I'm a kind of researcher into normal and abnormal behaviour of the typical Central European always makes me feel more at ease. I never connected it to my Freeze Response though.

It makes me wonder if hobbies that hone our observational skills might be good things for Freezers - like painting, drawing, keeping a writer's notebook where we jot down weird things people do...? Maybe also some hobbyist sociology, or character type theories, anything that can help us stay in Spock Mode?

Anyway, thanks for pointing this out.

Thanks for the cheer! Loved the connection to hobbies and art and have recently renewed my art passion. Maybe I should do some quick sketching to see where it leads me.

The quote in anger vs bitterness - great distinction!

That is so good BF and twice in one day - you must have felt triumphant! So in spite of the super bad freeze, you went ahead and contradicted her - that sounds to me like your IC is not quite as afraid of your M. You took a big risk in spite of the freeze. What's happened since the "Day of the Great Contradictions" - is she trying to FOG you at all?

Triumphant - good word to describe my feelings and yes I guess that means IC is less fearful, thanks I didn't make that connection, I'm really slow 

"Day of the Great Contradictions" Love this! It's odd because she tries to FOG me in odd kind of softer ways, not her usual PA ways so it's difficult for me to frame it as a Hoover FOG attempt. Good thing is I do recognize it for what it is and don't respond. It's almost a year since my sudden OOTF flight and she still seems puzzled why she can't get to me like she did and that feels good because while I feel like a crumbly mess inside I know on the outside I'm in charge of me.

I have some thoughts on the grief link but maybe better suited to a post on grief if we have one.

[spryte]

I just wanted to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread so far. It has had a profound effect on me today. I understand so much more about so many things that I've experienced, and can now attribute them to EF's.

I always thought of them as the more traditional visual flashbacks that are attributed to PTSD, so when therapists asked me about them I always said no...but there is a whole list of things that "trigger" me, emotionally. And I figured out why I'm having such a strong reaction to something that I've been struggling with recently, so thank you all.

[Kizzie]

"Day of the Great Contradictions" Love this! It's odd because she tries to FOG me in odd kind of softer ways, not her usual PA ways so it's difficult for me to frame it as a Hoover FOG attempt. Good thing is I do recognize it for what it is and don't respond. It's almost a year since my sudden OOTF flight and she still seems puzzled why she can't get to me like she did and that feels good because while I feel like a crumbly mess inside I know on the outside I'm in charge of me.

Feeling like "crumbly mess inside" - that's a great description of how I used to feel around my NPDM whenever I took a risk before BF - so afraid but not willing to put up with her PD behav.  It does get better or at least it has for me.  My M was quite discombobulated by changes in our behav too and tried a bunch of different tactics to see if she could get what she's wants in some other way. It was really tiring for us but she did eventually "relax" into a sort of acceptance that we weren't going to be PD'd, I think when she realized we are consistently kind and compassionate to her even when we have to reiterate boundaries. She has other sources for attention now (part of our strategy) so doesn't hoover much at all any more.

Leading up to feeling less crumbly inside though, I had two major PD events with her and actually felt as though there was an earthquake happening in my internal landscape. Very shakey and had BIG EFs in which it felt like it was life or death on some level.  Awful!!  It was the closest to going NC that I have ever been. Both EFs served to show me just how truly frightened my IC actually was (and is),  that she may in fact have thought she would die if she did the "wrong" thing, and how much care and support she needs to come into the present and process the past. So I understand too when you say the outside of you knows you're in charge, but the inside - not so much.   I do think that by being here and talking about all this we are taking steps to close that gap, and considering the fear I felt in those two EFs, baby steps are just fine -- maybe even necessary. 

[Butterfly]

Spryte, so happy for you!

Kizzie, your post help me tremendously. First lightbub from your post, I never really thought the crumbly feeling inside was fear since I don't respond out of fear anymore but it must be fear I'm feeling. There's been times I felt the internal earthquake you describe. But there's other times where I just feel a little off kilter, not quite so confident or quick how to respond to different interactions.

It's so sad to me that even when she's being nice I need to be alert and aware. That's where there's the most risk of inviting enmeshment and I know letting her in just a little bit is like a wedge in a crack to be wiggled until the crack is wider and wider.

One of my biggest triggers still is her unwillingness to see me as an individual and to grab onto any tidbit of information to try to enmesh. It makes me furious inside that she'll take anything she can find out and suddenly she wants to do it too, has had it, has done it, feels that same way, 'why do we feel this way', etc.

It's the enmeshment that allows her the bullying. Being enmeshed is what gives her the feeling of entitlement to treat me as she pleases and free license to her bullying. That reminds me of the post on OOTF about accepting the abuse and allowing it to continue sends the message the abuse is ok with us.

Second lightbulb, when I say "outside I'm in charge of me but inside on the crumbly mess" maybe what I'm really saying is that my adult has got the situation under control but when I say inside maybe what I'm really saying is my inner child. Thank you so much for your thoughts because the thought of an inner child is something I have a difficult time getting my head around and getting in touch with.

It's comforting to to know that your M has excepted this is how things are and being consistently kind and compassionate she's leveled off. I can kind of see that with my own M in that these last few months she's just kind of reluctantly accepted that this is the new normal. Through it all I've made sure I never cross or unkind in my tone or my words, simply not enmeshed. She now accepts my MC responses without the drama or PA fits MC first triggered, but only because I didn't cave and give in to her bullying.

DH and I were talking how grateful we both are to OOTF, this forum and the books I'm reading. Never give up and never stop the journey to wellness.

[spryte]

re: Spock Mode - First, I love this. Spock is seriously one of my hero's. If it were possible, I would absolutely undergo Vulcan Training. But, when I was reading this, the thing that came to mind to "help us stay in Spock Mode" would be mindfulness practices. As I understand it (I'm just beginning with it) a main tenant of mindfulness is "observation". When I'm doing that accept and embrace meditation - I'm generally doing it when I'm being triggered by whatever emotional/physical thing is going on at the moment. I'm not sure that it's EF related...but I get definite panic feelings about not being in control, which I know are all past-related. So, the first thing I have to do there is "observe". Get out of my head, which means emotionally detach from whatever is going on.

What am I feeling? (emotions) If I can't identify the feeling, accept that and move on.
What am I feeling in my body?

Observe, and then accept whatever it is as being my current reality, which cannot be changed by me in that moment. I don't know if it would be helpful to others for EF's.

But mindfulness period - is about that first part...observing with curiosity (and a book that I'm reading right now said observing with compassion and curiosity).

[schrödinger's cat]

...I never really thought the crumbly feeling inside was fear since I don't respond out of fear anymore but it must be fear I'm feeling. There's been times I felt the internal earthquake you describe. But there's other times where I just feel a little off kilter, not quite so confident or quick how to respond to different interactions.

This is interesting. I never thought to connect the crumbly feeling to EFs. But it's so plausible.

With me, it's mostly a feeling that I shouldn't be here, that I'm doing something wrong, or that there's something wrong about my looks or the way I'm walking, or that I'm saying the wrong things.

It's a little depressing how often this happens. A few years ago, I felt like that all the time with literally everybody. It's better now, but still - bleargh.

This made me realize how many thought substitutions I've yet to do. ... That's weirdly encouraging, though. If it's simply just sh*tty CPTSD crap, then I can shift it.

Mindfulness helps a lot, but for me personally, it's not 100% of the answer. I think it's beginning to work for me when I'm already recovered enough to have a stable independent observer inside of me. As long as the EF literally becomes my entire world and brainwashes my entire thinking, all there is to be mindful of is my own misery. Having said that, once I'm at that stage, it's astonishing what a change it makes.

[spryte]

Hmm...yes. I can see where the distinction would come in. I have these moments which I call "brown acid" moments - which I'm not sure yet if they're EF's...I'm trying to sort through my emotional reactions not wanting to label every single "off" emotional moment an EF...where regardless of what sparks it feels similar to what you describe. "...literally becomes my entire world and brainwashes my entire thinking." I think though, at some point in the past I DID develop a "stable observer" although...that didn't help me reduce the "brown acid" moments (though I wasn't doing specific work on those) What it DID do...was put the observer IN those moments...I've described it this way...and maybe it doesn't make sense to anyone who hasn't taken a hallucinogenic drug...but usually, someone on a bad trip doesn't KNOW they're on a bad trip. It engulfs them, becomes their world, THAT becomes reality. For me, these bad moments are like...having a bad trip, but KNOWING that you're having a bad trip, and not necessarily being able to stop it, or get out of it. Sometimes I can but it takes a WHOLE lot of work, and is super exhausting.

But, so now that the observer is "installed" I guess, enough in these moments to help me be aware that they are occurring, I guess I have found enough space (sometimes) to be able to say, "Ok...I'm having a brown acid moment, and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it right now, so instead of letting myself get swallowed by it I'll just hold onto something and ride it out."

"With me, it's mostly a feeling that I shouldn't be here, that I'm doing something wrong, or that there's something wrong about my looks or the way I'm walking, or that I'm saying the wrong things."

Have you identified specific triggers for those feelings? I used to have that all the time and I sometimes still get them...like, imposter feelings. "You don't belong here." feelings. I was completely defeated a few years back when I was going door to door putting door knob hanger flyers for my business on these really rich mansion homes...my anxiety was ridiculous and then I figured out that it was because despite the fact that these neighborhoods were quiet - it was the middle of the day so it was unlikely there was anyone even there, I was seriously freaking out because I thought that at any moment someone was going to come out of their house and scream at me and tell me to get off their property, that I didn't BELONG there.

I have noticed that reaction a lot actually...feeling as though I am doing something wrong, even when I'm not. That any moment someone is going to yell about me about something. I got that feeling constantly when I was working this one job cleaning a guys condo while he was away. Those were the most serious cases of that, and I can't remember if there was anything that "triggered" those feelings other than the circumstances. At the time, I chalked them up to just...really poor self-esteem - that my mom had obviously succeeded in crushing me to the point where I didn't feel like I had the right to even exist...although obviously, there were specific circumstances that surrounded those feelings - they weren't all the time...does that sound more like an EF experience than just a self-esteem/worth issue?

[schrödinger's cat]

Interesting question, this. How do we tell what's an EF and what isn't? I haven't thought about this properly yet, but at the drop of a hat, I'd say it's about being in control. Normal sadness has something of poise about it. It's a bit more like being in a cinema and the lights go down and the movie starts. So yes, I'm moved by what I see, but there's still some part of me that's in control, quiet, calm, and able to make decisions. EFs are different. They're like the whole world suddenly turning into one huge poltergeist that then begins to haunt you.

Triggers can be anything, unfortunately. My mother grew up poor, and like many formerly poor people, is super-hyper-conscious of how your hair and clothes and style give messages about your social class. I read a while ago that many poor folks do that to their kids: "Oh, but you can't wear that t-shirt! It looks frumpy and threadbare!" - meaning: it looks like we're poor. She fusses about my hair and clothes and posture and mimicry and everything all the time. Always has done. Still does, to this day. I either get: "Oh... what you're wearing looks nice", with an undertone of surprise. Or she'll look me up and down and give me this really grave look: "Here, I'm giving you some money so you can buy yourself something nice to wear." It's all really mild, soft, indirect. But it happened all the time. All the time. It's the rule, not the exception. Most of our interactions consist of my mother warning me, correcting me, giving "advice", asking probing questions, making sure I'm not making mistakes. So this morning I was triggered when I looked in the mirror and my hair was a little tousled. I simply assume without thinking that everyone will judge me the way my mother judges me. When you're a kid, never being good enough is an uncomfortable and scary experience. It would have been okay if my classmates hadn't given me yet more emotional

My EF was mild, comparatively. But it wasn't just a bad-hair-day feeling: because those I can deal with. I can joke about them, or laugh, or sigh, or whatever. It's like windsurfing. I can stay on top of things. I can live through those bad feelings and think: "this will make a funny story later, once I'm feeling better". The EFs though make me feel like I'm on the defensive. I'm subtly wrong. I feel like I'm to blame, I just don't know yet what for. My thoughts become sluggish and I can't concentrate too well. It's like a fog that starts to seep through everything and cloud my entire thinking. And it's precisely what it was like when I was a kid.

So that's why I'm calling that an EF. It's only to myself, and for my own life. I'm not saying that any such experience is always an EF for everybody. But I needed a word for "mindset / worldview / feelings / tunnel vision etc that's precisely like it was back when I was a kid", so I'm using it even for those milder EFs. Using that word is a way of telling myself: "This isn't me. I'm not 'naturally insecure' or something. I've had bad hair days and this isn't one, it's something else."

Erm... what's brown acid?

[Kizzie]

It's so sad to me that even when she's being nice I need to be alert and aware. That's where there's the most risk of inviting enmeshment and I know letting her in just a little bit is like a wedge in a crack to be wiggled until the crack is wider and wider. One of my biggest triggers still is her unwillingness to see me as an individual and to grab onto any tidbit of information to try to enmesh. It makes me furious inside that she'll take anything she can find out and suddenly she wants to do it too, has had it, has done it, feels that same way, 'why do we feel this way', etc.

And speaking of enmeshment .....segue, segue ......  So I emailed my NPDM that I had gone for my first African drumming session on Sat, had a great time, yada, yada, yada.  Her response?  "I love the song Little Drummer Boy"  Ding, ding ding, and we have a winner in the "How small, nay tiny a tidbit can your PD FOO grab onto to make it about them?"

Not making too much fun of the enmeshment BF because I was engulfed and have a NPDM who really does grab onto anything, literally the weirdest things to try and enmesh (and it makes me furious too), but sometimes you really just have to laugh. 

[globetrotter]

Gack!!! Little drummer boy???.
I'd be a bit frustrated as well !!!
I'm happy that you enjoyed it. Keep going!