Emdr making me worse

Started by 89abc123, July 22, 2017, 01:18:45 PM

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89abc123

I've just started emdr with a therapist and I have gotten significantly worse since.

I have had 3 sessions now and I've resorted back to old habits of over eating and drinking alcohol.

My anxiety is sky high and I feel like I'm on the verge of a mental breakdown. I spend most my days at work on the verge of tears.

The therapist said its normal for a while after but not too long. It's been over 3 weeks now.

89abc123

Just wondering if it's linked to self sabotage.

Is my brain resisting emdr?

Dee

#2
When I did emdr I would leave the session a wreck.  For the first time I was actually processing things.  Perhaps when we have avoided and numbed things will feel worse for awhile?  I don't think it will last forever, but feeling trauma is hard.

Eyessoblue

Hi I'm going through exactly that at the moment just had session 6 and binge eating and drinking like crazy! Seeing my therapist on Monday she seems to think it's normal but how long for I don't know.

89abc123

Eyessoblue wow our situations sound exactly the same!

Are you also getting random tension headaches, for a few seconds at a time throughout the day? Not sure if that is connected.

Sooooo. What wine do you drink  ;D just joking.

I guess we just wait it out from here?

I like vanilla

I am now speaking from personal experience (plus see other disclaimers below).

NO, NO, NO!!! It is not 'self-sabotage', or 'just needing practice feeling feelings', or 'normal'. (well, actually it is 'normal' in a sense but in the way that feeling pain when someone hits you is 'normal' rather than 'this is an acceptable way of being' 'normal'). For *some* (I would argue 'many' but have no data beyond anecdotal as it is not well researched) EMDR is actively harmful. EMDR can be (is?) tremendously re-traumatizing. Re-traumatizing is the LAST thing that someone with CPTSD needs. Although many mental health professionals still practise EMDR, many others are recognizing that this technique is not the panacea that some believe it to be. Again, for many of us it is actively harmful. It is NOT you, it IS the technique!

For years, I saw a therapist whose only tool was EMDR. For years, I got worse and worse. And for years, I got blamed for not doing it right - overall it was a lot like faith healers; if you fail to be cured it was not the fault of the healer but that of the client for not having enough faith. UGH! But, NO. EMDR IS re-traumatizing and that is the last thing that someone with CPTSD needs. Aside from that, there was for me always the problem of 'find the incident that caused that reaction'. I finally said to the therapist 'I can name about four times in my life that did not contribute to that reaction. The rest of my life did, which should I choose?' In other cases, I have the feelings and emotions, and a number of body sensations, but no 'real' memories (as is commons in CPTSD) - there is no incident in my memory to replay. Again, the blame - 'you're self-sabotaging', 'you're resisting treatment, etc'. NO, I was telling the truth - something a client ought to be able to do with one's therapist.

Finally, well not actually finally, but finally to keep this post a reasonable length, I always had the sense that emdr never really 'cured' the problem, it just put a bandaid over the feelings of it without ever dealing with the underlying issues. **potential trigger here - highlight the text if you would like to read it.** I use the example of my younger sister. When we were small, she fell on a broken bottle and cut her knee. Her knee 'healed' but continued to cause her large amounts of pain. Finally, my mother took her to the doctor, who discovered that a chunk of glass was still embedded in her knee. The doctor removed the glass and my sister finally actually healed. To me, emdr is like wanting to heal without removing the glass. For those who did not read the potential trigger - emdr for me was covering up the problem without actually dealing with it; I no longer felt the emotional upset/upheaval of the abusive incidents but also still carried them, and I believe that they were still 'active' even though I could not directly access the related emotions. I suspect that much of my later 'feeling like a wreck' was due to these unprocessed, but now hidden, emotions pushing their way back out in an effort to be properly heard and processed. emdr turns off the emotions but does not really process them. Again, failing to process emotions is the LAST thing that someone with CPTSD needs.

Now, I see a 'new' (for over two years 'new' :D) therapist, who practises sensory motor psychotherapy. Here, the therapist carefully leads the client to feel and process emotions and feelings related to abuse, and to physically undertake actions that the client needs/wishes to make to help process the emotions that were 'trapped' at the time of abuse - i.e. the client could not enact flight or fight so the emotions could not be released at the time. In therapy the client is able to safely enact a response to finally release that energy from the body. This form of therapy also allows for the processing of un-remembered memories (so to speak) as it works with the emotions and body sensations, which can be processed even if the client has not full memory of what happened. The therapist also has the job to monitor the client to ensure that she/he remains safe and does not go so far into a session as to cause re-traumatizing - there is no supposedly 'instant cure', because the sessions are careful with no re-traumatizing it sometimes takes a session or two to work through an event/emotion. Sometimes too, you work a bit then work on other things for a bit, then come back to something when you and your body are ready to re-visit the particular event/emotion. No, this is not the only type of therapy for CPTSD, nor is it one that would work for everyone (though it has been doing great, leaps-and-bounds healing for me). But it, along with other, usually related therapies, helps a person safely PROCESS rather than cover-up or avoid abuse-related emotions. And that processing, at least according to experts such as Bessel Van Der Kolk, is the way out of the black hole of CPTSD.



Disclaimers: I speak only from personal experience. I have no training in the mental health field. Yes, I have also done a huge amount of reading on this topic, but unfortunately do readings only for personal information/interest so cannot cite sources. Yes, I agree that some people think that emdr works for them. I also agree that each individual has every right to choose whichever therapy works for them. Yes, I also agree that any type of treatment is a factor not only of the treatment itself but also the therapist and the client and the dynamic between the two.

BUT I did need to speak up as I also firmly believe that it is WRONG to blame a client, whether overtly or accidentally or with good intention or not, when a therapy does not work for that individual. Emdr, like any therapy, sometimes just does not work for some people, even people who are participating fully in the therapy, who are not resisting treatment, who are not self-sabotaging, and who are genuinely giving their all to get well. Even then, sometimes a particular treatment does not work for some individuals. And even then, some treatments can be harmful to some individuals. And those factors are true even if the particular treatment has been useful to someone else.

It is important to recognize that not every treatment works for every individual and even that some treatments can be harmful to some individuals. Otherwise, the individual is left feeling that there is something wrong with them for not responding the way that they are 'supposed to respond' (and really, being told again that 'there is something wrong with you' is another last thing that someone with CPTSD needs). If a therapy is not working for you consider that it might not be  NOT you; it might, indeed, be the technique, the therapist, and/or a combination of the technique, the therapist and the dynamic between you. I would even suggest this in the face of so-called self-sabotage and resistance. If a therapy and/or therapist is right for you then it/they would help you work through those factors rather than entrench them; your instincts are often good about what you need (even though abusive situations teach us otherwise). If your instincts are rejecting a technique it is time to look at that technique and to talk this over with your therapist performing it to see if there is a way to work through the resistance or if a new technique is needed. A good therapist is open to having this discussion. A 'red flag' therapist shuts down the discussion with 'that's normal', 'you're self-sabotaging', etc. Even if those statements are true, they provide inadequate support to the client suffering these challenges.

89abc123

Interesting read vanilla,

I have heard so many amazing things about emdr, but I guess it's one of those things that works for some and not others. It's concerning to me that you kept getting worse, I hope I don't keep getting worse as well. Surely the therapist would have the common sense to stop if my condition doesn't improve with more sessions. I'd hope so anyway.

I didn't get a chance to read the highlighted section because it wouldn't work on my phone. But I do agree that getting in touch with feelings like Bessel van der kolk suggests is key. Spartan life coach has also gone down that road and released an emotional literacy course. I'd love to hear a review of it if anyone has done it. His discipline course was incredibly powerful for me.

I'm not sure, I will stick with the emdr though for now until I discuss further with my therapist.

sanmagic7

may i just add my two-cents' worth here?  i am an emdr therapist, and i've seen miracles happen around releasing trauma, tension, pain, and emotions with this technique.  i do believe that it is not always re-traumatizing for a client if the therapist is well-versed in the dynamics of trauma, especially complex trauma.

that being said, i also agree that it may not be for everyone, or that the fit between client and therapist is not quite right.  emdr works with the brain to reprocess whatever needs to be reprocessed in order to take the 'punch' out of it so that it no longer interferes with your life.

vanilla, i am truly sorry for your experience.  therapy can be painful, it can be difficult, it can be scary, but it should never be harmful.  i agree that if something doesn't go according to plan, it is not the client's fault.  the therapist needs to be monitoring progress, and creatively inventing ways and means to keep it moving forward for the client at the correct pace, one the client can tolerate. 

i think that anyone who is having problems such as described by 89 and eyes may need to speak to their t's about what's going on.  my gut thinks that the processing may be going too fast right now, and things need to be slowed down a bit in order to regain a sense of stability.    during emdr processing, our brains are working very hard to make changes.  as with any change that is sudden, or too big, our minds may find it disturbing, which can lead to devolving to old coping skills.

working with traumatization needs to be done slowly and in small steps, always looking to see how the client is tolerating the processing.  a good therapist will monitor this in order that the client does not get re-traumatized.    this is true no matter what type of therapy is being utilized.

it's also important to remember that we retain our power as clients, and we can say stop or slow down whenever we feel that things are moving too fast.  sometimes the therapist might not catch it or see what exactly is happening. 

i don't think you're self-sabotaging, 89, nor do i think your brain is resisting the emdr.   i do think it may have gotten overwhelmed by the changes that are going on.  if so, then it's time to slow down, process some of this with your t, just talk about it, skip the emdr processing for a session, maybe more, until you feel ready to continue.

also, vanilla, i agree that some adjunct physical-type processing may be helpful for feelings, and/or emotions, tension, and stress that have been trapped in the body for too long.  some type of somatic or energy healing work might be warranted for the physical part.  i, myself, have had both emdr and somatic work done for these things, and they've both been helpful.  the body keeps the score, and the brain runs the body.  there is an interconnection there, and these things do work differently for different people.

i would like to see those therapists be willing to explore what's going on with you re: your return to unhealthy coping skills, rather than kind of dismiss them by saying 'that's normal'.  processing between sessions is normal, feeling uneasy or having more dreams than usual is normal.  what both of you are describing i would hope that your therapist would like to look into in more detail in order to lessen the level of disturbance you're feeling that's causing you to go to such lengths to diminish it.

i hope any of this is helpful.  best to you all with your choices.  hugs all around.

Blueberry

As far as I understand it, EMDR can be re-traumatising and is therefore not always the best method for CPTSD. But it could be. It depends on the client and a multitude of other factors. My T dismissed it more or less out of hand for me, considered brain-spotting and did try that with me for a bit on neutral, non-trauma, topics and then eventually decided on screen-processing, with still pics (as opposed to movies). I have the feeling screen-processing is maybe not a major method in the English-speaking world? And maybe EMDR more common?

EMDR is maybe amazing, but so are the results from screen-processing.  ;)       It's about getting the right fit. I've been re-traumatised before in therapy on at least 4 other occasions with completely different therapists, including one who was trauma-informed and two who thought they were. That may be one reason my present T didn't even consider EMDR for me.

I admit, I return to unhealthy coping skills quite often. When I think that's getting out of hand, I tell my T, so that he knows what's going on. I've been exhausted since Thursday evening, probably a delayed reaction from the really hard topic I had up on the screen on Tuesday. I tend to over-eat when exhausted and sometimes I just don't care! That's probably self-sabotage.

We don't do screen processing every session. There are in-between sessions where we just talk about what's going on, how I've been reacting etc. Here in my country, they say "take a peak at something, then stabilise, stabilise, stabilise, take another peak, then stabilise, stabilise, stabilise" etc. (for trauma therapy).


Kat

This is a fascinating topic.  It's been interesting to read through all of the different opinions and experiences.  Something Vanilla said struck me and that was about having trouble trying to find an incident that caused a reaction to be used as the focus during EMDR.  My therapist suggested that EMDR wouldn't be a good fit for me for that exact reason.  I can't call up specific events and I think much of the damage done happened before I could even create those types of "recall-able" memories (vs. body/sensation memories).

Similarly, I've just started Somatic Experience therapy which Vanilla called sensory motor therapy.  I've only had three sessions, but I have a really good feeling about it.  I feel like I hit the jackpot with the person I'm seeing.  I've already learned a great deal. 

That being said, I think it's important for us to trust our instincts and minds.  I once joined a trauma therapy group.  The facilitator was a psychotherapist who endorsed a form of tapping to address the somatic side of C-PTSD.  There were about eight of us in the group.  The first session, he had us crammed into a very small room.  I was across the room from the door.  There was a standing lamp at my side that reminded me of one my parents had.  We went around the room telling our stories.  And then the therapist asked us all to close our eyes so he could put us through some guided imagery.  NOPE.  I was in a room of strangers with no clear escape route and he wanted me to shut my eyes?  Just NOPE.  I didn't go back.   

Candid

Wow, vanilla, that was some seriously bad 'therapy' you got there! I'm always shocked when I hear of therapists telling clients they're "not doing it right", even though I've met a couple myself.

Quote from: 89abc123 on July 22, 2017, 03:23:27 PM
It's concerning to me that you kept getting worse, I hope I don't keep getting worse as well. Surely the therapist would have the common sense to stop if my condition doesn't improve with more sessions. I'd hope so anyway.

There really isn't any quality control in therapy, and there is an alarming number of blame-the-client, I-know-best therapists who will plug blindly on no matter what.

My only experience of EMDR was with a therapist who claimed a 100 per cent success rate. I met some of her other clients in a group she set up, and it was clear we were all still extremely fragile. There's a lot of don't-upset-the-therapist goes on for those of us abused by authority figures. Throw in a boundaries issue and we don't know whether we're right to object or being "too sensitive".

I had this therapy for two years, at which point I relocated and the journey was too much for me. In two years we'd got precisely nowhere; I had all my presenting problems plus a few new ones. But I know the therapist would still be claiming her 100 per cent success rate, because the rider was "provided people stay with it to the end". When nothing's shifted in two years, is it realistic to expect there's going to be some giant aha! moment at some point in the future? I think not.

IMO the type of therapy is largely irrelevant; it's the individual therapist that can make all the difference.  As the forum demonstrates, there's great relief in knowing we're not alone with it any more.




89abc123

Thanks for all the replies on this...

I haven't had a chance to see my therapist again so I'm still dealing with increased anxiety, I'm on the verge of tears most days, I can't concentrate. I'm having a really hard time.

Judging by the replies this isn't normal, so I'm not sure what I should do here. I'm worried I'll get 'stuck' like this if I don't continue the therapy??

Dee


When do you see your therapist?  Can you call?

sanmagic7

good point from dee.  i agree, this should not be getting worse.  usually there's a period of discomfort, disturbance even, but as the brain makes the necessary adjustments, things settle down.   i hope you can get hold of your t and get some relief quickly.  big hug.

Eyessoblue

Hi I'm still the same as you, feel completely re traumatised now, can't eat this week literally forcing myself to, just feel completely overwhelmed and on the verge of tears every day, I'm re playing the traumas over and over in my head and causing myself more anxiety by doing so, my anxiety is the worst it's been for years, back to see counsellor on Monday by scared she won't offer me a solution to this, really interested to hear you are feeling the same it does make me feel I'm not alone.