food restriction/disordered eating of any kind

[fullofsoundandfury]

I'm coming out of denial about some of my symptoms, in a pleasant, gentle way, which is a first. Usually it is an internal abuser who realizes I'm doing something weird, and then lashes me for it, using it to reinforce how deeply flawed I supposedly am. So this is nice, just becoming gently aware in a dispassionate yet caring way. I am sure I am becoming aware and willing to investigate in this nice, calmer way, because I have learned some things about CPTSD that make it less fraught with self-hating judgment and despair.

I have known I have CPTSD for a while now, but didn't know what to do about it and couldn't concentrate enough to understand information I tried to read. I couldn't do therapy because I cannot trust anyone (yet!  ) and become very badly triggered if I sit and talk to someone about myself. So I just kind of ignored it. This is all to say, I'm new to actual active attempts at recovery.

One of the trickiest things about my CPTSD is the denial, self protection, avoidance side of it. It means that I do things and I don't know why, and I don't seem to have access to solutions. It's like subconscious parts of me are in control and I can't communicate with those subconscious aspects. I know they are trying to help me. I think toxic shame might be separating me from my inner reasons or compulsions.

One of the things I do, is avoid eating.

It is almost 5pm here now, and I haven't eaten. I am not deliberately, consciously doing it to keep slim or anything like that. That is the problem, I'm not consciously doing it. It's automatic. I can't remember to eat. I don't feel hunger. I'm not interested in food. I don't enjoy food. I hate having to cook and clean up after it. I might be restricting food to stay slim, I don't know! Could be anything.

I have had some coffees and cigarettes.

I am wondering if anyone has come across any information about disordered relationships to food, in your research into CPTSD? I think that food restriction or over-eating can be common in traumatised people, is that right?

Perhaps I am being too analytical. I like having information, if I can connect dots I find it easier to accept and then work towards change.

I would appreciate your experiences with eating, if you have any, and if anyone has any links, or ideas about what food restriction might be linked to, internally?

I guess it could be a frozen part who doesn't really want to be alive, it could be so many things....

I've just been to the shops and purchased all the ingredients for one of my all-time favorite childhood meals, something my paternal grandmother (who is still insane but was stable enough to cook) made for me when I was young  It's very healthy and nourishing. I won't enjoy it, eating for me is going through the motions.

Wow, a memory just surfaced!!!!

TW
I am the eldest child. I used to argue with my mother about her abusive treatment of us, and try to protect the younger ones. I was highly motivated to stop her, change her, protect everyone. She would punish me sometimes by locking me in my bedroom. I wasn't allowed to have my light on or have any food. One night she ordered Chinese take-out for everyone but I wasn't allowed to have any.
END TW

Wow, my mind is co-operating me by showing me scenes connected to my eating, just because I'm asking about it! That was quite nice. My mind just floated the memories up as visuals, like I was back there again, but without the terrible emotions. So it's connected to that.

Now what?

[Candid]

It is almost 5pm here now, and I haven't eaten. I am not deliberately, consciously doing it to keep slim or anything like that. That is the problem, I'm not consciously doing it. It's automatic. I can't remember to eat. I don't feel hunger. I'm not interested in food. I don't enjoy food. I hate having to cook and clean up after it. I might be restricting food to stay slim, I don't know! Could be anything.

I lived that way when I lived alone, fosaf.  The question is, do you feel unwell from it? I never did. I'm a natural grazer, used to fill the fridge and cupboards with anything that appealed to me at the supermarket, without any thought of making a meal. Then when I got hungry at random times, I'd just grab whatever I wanted. Lots of good things don't need to be cooked. I was fitter then than I am now in a three-meals-a-day + snacking household.

I have had some coffees and cigarettes.

That sends me back a couple of years, to when I was a student. On a typical day I woke in the wee hours, put the kettle on, booted up the laptop, grabbed my cigarettes and ashtray, and disappeared into cyberworld. A few hours later, one coffee after another and the ashtray overflowing, I'd eat some fruit, shower and dress, then pedal off to campus. Oh happy days!

I think that food restriction or over-eating can be common in traumatised people, is that right?

I suspect so. I know anorexia and bulimia have been linked to childhood sexual abuse.

Now what?

Listen to your hunger. What is it you want? Is it about food, or something else?

[Libby12]

Hi fosaf.

This is a very interesting post.  Like you I am new to the idea of c-ptsd,  but I have always had issues around food.   Not a full blown eating disorder,  more anxiety about food.

I am in the process of reading The Body Keeps the Score,  which definitely links trauma to eating issues.

I have always been aware that my food was a big issue for me.  My nm has always told me how difficult I was with feeding.   Even at five weeks old, she said I deliberately brought back my feed to spoil her evening out.   She believed she was an amazing cook so any refusal to eat by me was seen as a personal affront to her.  I was small compared to parents and sister but was expected to eat as much as them and was punished if I did not.  Food was thrown if nm was angry.  Eating out was *,  because I had to be grateful for the meal but not enjoy it too much or else nm would be angry that I liked other food better than her food. Food was absolutely used to control.  If I said I was hungry,  nm would say something like "you can't be because I'm not"  or if I said I was full, I was told to eat up because the rest of the family were still hungry.   Consequently,  I still don't know if I am hungry or not.  I feel sick a lot of the time.  I panic if I feel obliged to eat.  I panic if there is too much food - can't bear the sight of a buffet.  I panic that I might be hungry but not allowed to eat.   I worry that food will make me ill. I could go on but you get the picture!

This c-ptsd is so diverse in its manifestations,  but for me the whole food issue comes down to my relationship with my mother.  She had had an unhappy childhood with a depressed mother. It was almost as if she chose narcissism to save her from the family curse of depression. She saw herself as perfect wife and mother so cooking was a big part of self image.  She controlled every one through food,  but as I never felt any love or care from her, and was absolutely her scapegoat,  it affected me deeply.  I am doing so much better for having gained some insight into the roots of my problems, and it seems that you are at a similar stage so well done.

I relate so much to what you say about lack of trust,  avoidance,  toxic shame. There are so many layers of hurt to deal with, which seep into every aspect of our existence.

Reading the book I mentioned earlier is really helping to validate my experiences, including my issues around food. Just understanding where it all comes from stops some of the self blame and self loathing.   

I am probably at a similar stage to you so I don't have a lot of advice.  It's so good,  however,  to share experiences.  Thank you for the opportunity.  I would be really interested to hear more about your thoughts and progress and I hope you find answers to your questions.

Warm wishes to you.

Libby.

[sanmagic7]

food choices and eating issues are definitely part of the c-ptsd experience.  for one thing, if you weren't nourished properly, if food/eating was something unpleasant, fraught with guilt, confusion,  fear, pain of any kind, there's no way for your body and brain to be able to coordinate the proper messages about hunger and being full.

often, undereating can also be linked to control issues.  if you felt out of control, surrounded by chaos, you may  stop yourself from eating (consciously or unconsciously) as a means to have a sense of control about something in your life.  lots of people will not allow themselves to be controlled even by the natural nutritional needs of their bodies.

the flip side, overeating, can be a means of attempting to fill a hole in your heart, a bottomless pit of yearning for something you never got as a child, and therefore can never fill that hole no matter how much you eat.    also, when in distress, the brain craves sweet, salty, fatty substances from a basic survival need.  that's why junk food is so popular.

controlling one's weight unnaturally (anorexic, bulimic, over-exercising - which is a form of bulimia) can be linked to body image and perfection issues.  if i don't look perfect, i'm not lovable, not desirable, not ok as a person.

there's so much, so many layers around food/eating, something that should be a natural act of self-care, yet is too often utilized for self-harm.   i've been in support and therapy groups for this myself, and have read a lot about it.  just offering my opinions.

best to everyone having problems with these issues - i'm one of you, by the by.  just cuz i know about it doesn't mean i can always do something about it.  hugs all around.

[Dee]

I apologize if I am repeating what someone else has said.  I did not read all of the replies.  I did skim them.  I have been diagnosed with anorexia.  I have been told that it is a symptom.  That it is a way to numb and an unhealthy coping tool.

Most of the time, I want to eat, I don't feel hunger the same because of a slowed metabolism, but I want to eat.  I just don't allow myself to eat.  I am proud of myself when I feel disciplined.  Also, I have so much guilt when I eat something I have labeled bad, that it isn't worth it.

I have been told it is about control.  That food is a very basic thing to control.  When a person feels they have no control over their life they often control food.  It is the only thing they feel they can control.  I was given the example of a baby who is angry and will purse their lips together to not allow the spoon in.

It is often linked, but not always, to childhood sexual abuse.  This is because they person was unable to control what was happening to them.  Currently, I am struggling.  I have had a lot going on and it is a trigger.  I know it, so I am trying to stay healthy.  I even know it is a control issue.  Right now, I feel like someone else is in control of things that are important in my life.

[Candid]

if food/eating was something unpleasant, fraught with guilt, confusion,  fear, pain of any kind, there's no way for your body and brain to be able to coordinate the proper messages about hunger and being full.

Interesting insight. I remember the FOO dinner table as the time and place when arguments between the parents were most likely to occur. On one memorable occasion Dad made a comment about the dinner, whereupon Mother Superior picked up his plate and shoved it in his face. The strongest image is of food dripping off his chin -- that and the fact that my sister and I were in freeze mode on the other side of the table. We should have been laughing, surely.

I still hate sitting down to dinner, except in restaurants. Eating out is a favourite pastime for both me and Sis. Not many memories of dining out with parents, except when we were on holiday. Both of them had a high investment in looking good to outsiders, and we girls were well-trained to shut up and clean our plates.

Interestingly, Mother Superior once remarked: "Both you and Sis gained weight when you moved out. I must have been starving you." As usual this had an edge to it, because as young women of the Seventies both of us were struggling for fashionable emaciation. She never taught us to cook. Last time I looked Sis still hadn't learned.

So yeah, the whole cooking, eating and clean-up process strikes me as too much time and energy spent for mere bodily maintenance. It's a three-times-a-day irritation now I'm no longer living alone.

Dee, I hear you on the control thing. Hungry and not eating always felt good to me.

[fullofsoundandfury]

Really appreciating all your valuable comments.

Update: I am in my lunch break during a work day and I came home, was attracted to the idea of a certain kind of sandwich, made that sandwich for myself on autopilot, and ate it. Without drama. I even enjoyed the taste a bit!

I went a bit vague, was not totally present for the eating part of it, but this is the first time I've ever been able to do that so naturally and easily without lashings of self abuse from my inner critic. I notice I'm not negatively judging my food choices and lamenting the fact that it wasn't 100% perfectly healthy/clean/organic/paleo/whatever my no-win inner critic imagines I should be eating but would then criticise me for anyway because it's too expensive. Eating must set off an emotional flashback/inner critic sequence that's so automatic it's below consciousness, but today it didn't happen!! First time in as long as I can remember!

Maybe it's not eating.... maybe it's my very existance.

I also happily grabbed a banana for breakfast this morning and put it in my bag, and said to inside my body "I love you, I care about you so I want to look after you." I didn't eat that banana, I didn't really have time, but that is still a change.

I haven't worked specifically on this food thing but I have been repeating the affirmations for re-parenting the inner child, from Pete Walker's book, and reading the book itself as well. Then today, this lunch thing seems to be a by-product of the new understandings and experiences I have, based on the book!

I'm celebrating this little change  and vowing to be compassionate to myself no matter what my eating looks like in the future

[Libby12]

It was great to hear that you were able to decide on a sandwich and eat it,  with a bit of enjoyment.  I really hope this continues.

Thank you for starting this thread. It has made me look more closely at my food issues.   I think you are right that it is not just about food,  it's about existence.

Reading your last post made me realise that it is not really food and eating. You are so right. It is the fact that every meal  sets off emotional flashbacks for me as well.  Then the inner critic (the voice of nm) joins in and I immediately start to doubt my food choice and consequently just can't enjoy it. I have really struggled for the past two weeks as my husband has been on annual leave and I have felt so much food anxiety from eating to fit in with him.   Perhaps I will start to feel a bit better now he is out at work all day and I will make the evening meal.

I am about to start reading the Pete Walker book so I will have in mind how useful it has been to you. 

Here's to the goal of a bit more pleasure in food!

Libby.

[Candid]

Lovely post, fosaf! That's an achievement indeed, and a great inspiration.

[fullofsoundandfury]

Thanks Candid! 

I ate lunch again!

This time I 'forgot' to until I didn't have much time left. But I had a flash of reading Libby say "I hope this continues" and that was somehow interpreted as instruction and permission and encouragement to make it continue. I had some soup left over so heated that up. I notice having convenience foods available, that all I have to do is warm it up, is a good idea for me. Having to actually prepare food puts me in overwhelm, fright, confusion and pain. Too much, too many ways to fail, too overwhelming.

I noticed as I was eating that the action of eating definitely triggers flashbacks. I noticed myself trying to distract myself from the act of eating, and when I tried to become more present, I could feel myself palpably trying to flee my body, in great fear. I started saying soothing things to myself then just numbed out.

Thanks Libby, love your thoughts. Let me know what you think of the book

[Libby12]

Hi fullofsoundandfury.

Hoping very much that you are keeping up with the meals.  You're right about meals like soup, very straightforward,  and that's what I had for lunch yesterday as well!!  Quite enjoyed it!

The Pete Walker book is excellent.   Quite early on he basically says that it is almost impossible for people from dysfunctional families /with c-ptsd not to have some form of disordered eating.  Great validation. As I read on I came to realise that I had probably been in a regression for the past two weeks hence the extra triggering around food.   I have felt so awful for these weeks but being able to explain it as an extended EF makes so much sense.  Firstly it was my birthday which I find difficult to cope with.  Then it was the fact that my husband was on leave from work.  Holidays of any kind were so upsetting and stressful as a child due to my awful parents.   I don't remember any of my birthdays but remember all to well the absolute horror of family holidays. Everything my foo did revolved around food /how amazingly nurturing my nm was. It's so good to be able to understand what I have been experiencing for the last couple of weeks.
Talking here and putting that together with the book has been so helpful.   Thank you so much. I am feeling quite a bit better now.

Please keep up the good work of looking after yourself with these simple meals. We can do this!

Libby.

[Blueberry]

One of the trickiest things about my CPTSD is the denial, self protection, avoidance side of it. It means that I do things and I don't know why, and I don't seem to have access to solutions. It's like subconscious parts of me are in control and I can't communicate with those subconscious aspects. I know they are trying to help me. I think toxic shame might be separating me from my inner reasons or compulsions.

One of the things I do, is avoid eating.

I'm actually now an over-eater, but I used to be an under-eater. Another thing I do sometimes is avoid drinking at all. I mean water, tea etc. For a day and a half this week. I think that's supposedly worse for your body than not eating. Not that it should be a competition about who treats themselves worst.

Before I was diagnosed with CPTSD, I was diagnosed with Avoidant PD. I presume it's one of the many aspects of CPTSD since it no longer appears on my list of diagnoses.

I learned to communicate with subconscious parts of myself through inner child work. At last count I had 15 inner children and teens. That got a bit out of control, my Adult person was no longer in control. Still FWIW I learnt quite a lot about what I need. Not that I allow myself what I need as much as I ought. I'm a self-punisher, e.g. I'll say to myself "Since you didn't get out of bed till 2 pm today, you can't listen to any music" even though possibly listening and even moving around to some music would get me going onto other activities. Actually today I finally allowed myself some music, though not the music I was really looking forward to.

It is almost 5pm here now, and I haven't eaten. I am not deliberately, consciously doing it to keep slim or anything like that. That is the problem, I'm not consciously doing it. It's automatic. I can't remember to eat. I don't feel hunger. I'm not interested in food. I don't enjoy food. I hate having to cook and clean up after it. I might be restricting food to stay slim, I don't know! Could be anything.

At the time I was an under-eater, I didn't do it deliberately to stay slim, in fact I felt somewhat 'superior' to women who did. I used to say then, I'd never been on a diet and would never go on one, since I wouldn't stick to it. However when I was in the eating disordered group in inpatient therapy, I realised one of the real reasons for my not eating: deep down I didn't want to exist. Also in general it felt safer to be invisible. 

I no longer feel the need to be invisible so I over-eat instead. I know that can happen, that you and your eating disorder swing the other way.

I have known I have CPTSD for a while now, but didn't know what to do about it and couldn't concentrate enough to understand information I tried to read. I couldn't do therapy because I cannot trust anyone (yet!  ) and become very badly triggered if I sit and talk to someone about myself. So I just kind of ignored it. This is all to say, I'm new to actual active attempts at recovery.

Lower down in your post, you ask "Now what?"
My advice (based on my own healing experience) is: take it slowly, especially if you don't have a T yet and if you get badly triggered when talking about yourself.

I am wondering if anyone has come across any information about disordered relationships to food, in your research into CPTSD? I think that food restriction or over-eating can be common in traumatised people, is that right?

Perhaps I am being too analytical. I like having information, if I can connect dots I find it easier to accept and then work towards change.

I tend to be rather analytical too. I don't know if "too" analytical really exists. We all share lots of symptoms on here, but we're also different people, different personalities, with different character strengths. Some of us may be more analytical than others. I grew up in a very analytical household. That can be an advantage, so long as I don't go overboard on it. I imagine it might be similar for you.

As for your question: I haven't done any research on it, but observed in my inpatient time that all of us in the eating disordered group who also actively practised self-harm in various ways were all survivors of CSA and/or really bad emotional abuse

I've just been to the shops and purchased all the ingredients for one of my all-time favorite childhood meals, something my paternal grandmother ... made for me when I was young  It's very healthy and nourishing.

That sounds like a really great step.     

[fullofsoundandfury]

Thanks Blueberry, what an absolutely awesome post. I agree and relate to everything you said.

For some reason, this is sticking! After 15 years of not being able to fix this not-eating thing, I am doing it now! And drinking water, AND, all the things I'm eating are healthy. What the heck?! I can't believe the difference in my energy levels. I need far less coffee now. It was so circular. Thank God I'm out of that loop. Maybe tending towards over-eating but I'm not going to pathologise everything LOL. I'll keep an eye on it.

Blueberry, do you have any links or resources that illustrate the kind of IC work you did? I also have multiple inner children and teenagers. I am very visual, I have seen them. They're startlingly potent, not just whimsical little fragments of faint memory. Some are trapped back in time and haven't noticed they're not 8 (for example) any more. I'm SURE the fact that I can eat now has something to do with the fact that I recited Pete Walker's IC affirmations to them a few times.

Libby, so glad you're enjoying Pete's book. It's created powerful shifts for me in easy, natural ways. Thanks for your encouragement and insights, I've really enjoyed your company on this thread 

[Blueberry]

Blueberry, do you have any links or resources that illustrate the kind of IC work you did? I also have multiple inner children and teenagers. I am very visual, I have seen them. They're startlingly potent, not just whimsical little fragments of faint memory. Some are trapped back in time and haven't noticed they're not 8 (for example) any more.

I'll ponder this. I'm not in an English-speaking country and the Ts I did this IC work with developed it themselves. And I further adapted it for myself...

[AphoticAtramentous]

I'm glad I found this thread, I have definitely had my fair share of eating problems.

Trigger Warning Start
This is more physical than psychological but growing up, I always had a lack of food. What I was given was all I got, doesn't matter if I was still hungry. Thus according to my doctor and dietitian, my stomach 'shrunk' and thus I get full very quickly when eating. My parents took me to a dietitian to try and get me to eat more, which is where I was recommended to eat 5 small meals a day, rather than the 2 large meals a day I was getting. Well that was too much work for my parents lol So that never happened.
Trigger Warning End

I'm about 45kg's (99lbs) and I just have 0 appetite.

It is almost 5pm here now, and I haven't eaten. I am not deliberately, consciously doing it to keep slim or anything like that. That is the problem, I'm not consciously doing it. It's automatic. I can't remember to eat. I don't feel hunger. I'm not interested in food. I don't enjoy food. I hate having to cook and clean up after it. I might be restricting food to stay slim, I don't know! Could be anything.

Pretty much this ^ 100%. And cooking is such a scary thought for me, so many things could go wrong... eehhh... >.>
I can't tell if my lack of eating is simply because my stomach is just... small... or if my CPTSD does in fact contribute to it. Who knows.