question regarding "inners/littles/others/ or what do you call them

[Blueberry]

I've been asked before, though possibly not on this thread, if I can explain more about the therapy I have done e.g. on Inner Children. I can't really, I find it so complex. When I google for something similar in the English-speaking world, it seems not to exist. This is a shame! You'd think in this day and age there'd be more cooperation and international learning going on between two first-world countries, but I guess not. 

The best idea I could give anybody who is interested is: try googling Ego State Therapy. It contains some of what I've learned over the years. But really just by reading I wouldn't have got where I am today. I needed somebody to do it with me. A T did work with me for a while with Ego State Therapy but he missed on getting me properly protected before we went into processing.  I have my Inner Safe Place from then and also a number of Inner Helpers including animals, e.g. one who worked as a babysitter for the very small Inner Children.
For Ego State Therapy to work, you'd need to have a trauma-informed T, I think. Mine wasn't and that caused all sorts of problems.

The therapists who do the Inner Child workshops have backgrounds in various different therapy types, but they are all trauma-informed. I think I just had incredible luck to find them at just the time I really needed them, but me attempting to put that work into words to help anybody on here - I can't do it.

[Liminality]

Lim,
Thank you for sharing that. I've heard of animal inners(?) but you are the first I've had contact with. I have a lot of dissociative amnesia in both childhood and adulthood.
Andrew

Hello Andrew, did we meet? Andy and I have shared a little on another thread a few days ago, but if you're not the "same" Andrew, happy to meet you! (If you're the same one, please ignore me )
As I was doing research this week, I've read non-human insiders are less common than human ones, which surprised me as I have a few of them. But I guess it's not that surprising, seeing as I was brainwashed into thinking all humans were evil and out to get me. There was no trust with humans when I was a child, and that the most "happy"/"carefree"/"soothing") parts of myself are animals and trees makes sense, just like the happiest memories I still have from childhood are from spending time with animals or alone in nature.

I have a therapy bear who represented a small, unhappy Inner Child. For a long time Bear couldn't communicate at all with language. Bear understood quite a lot but couldn't express. Then Bear started to nod or shake his head. Then eventually to speak. Bear is bilingual now, using both my native language and the language of the country I now live in. So, just saying, these things can and do change.

That's great! So happy for you and Bear. May I ask if you have tricks to help the little ones inside communicate better, even if not vocally? Right now their communication is more than a little chaotic and becomes quickly painful when they scream.

Sounds like Inner Helpers, in fact you can have a whole Inner Team on board.  for you for coming up with these 'others'.  I say  because I had help and encouragement coming up with mine e.g. through Ego State therapy and all the Inner Child workshops I did. It seems yours have come up on their own, without outside help except from you?

It's complicated. I've learned yesterday that I have a lot more amnesia than I thought I had, so my best guess is that some parts of myself are more "conscious" of them than others. When those parts "disappear" to the back of my head, so do the memories and everything related to the existence of my insiders.
But the medical abuse I went through at the hospital caused so much confusion, shock, and chaos that it burned my whole sense of self to the ground. So the best thing I can come up with is that it must have broken down some barriers inside as well. I've only started hearing their screams intermittently after I got out.

On the other hand I've had an inner mindscape since very young, as I was encouraged early to develop my imagination (no wonder why). When I read something about "Memory Palaces" in the "Hannibal" books by Thomas Harris in my late teens, I tried to make one for myself and while attempting to picture the house I lived in at the time, (re)discovered both my first home (where Kaylee lives) and what I used to call the "Magic Island" when I was something like five. When I first stumbled on it I thought it was mine alone, but in truth I have no control on how it appears and only have access to about 10%, the rest is (currently?) blocked off or unreachable (tall and abrupt cliffs, holes in the ground, etc.). So I guess my insiders live there somewhere, more or less protected from even myself.

Thank you for the information on Ego State Therapy. I'll read on that, maybe prepare and bring some reading material when I get assigned to a new T. It's so helpful.

[Andyman73]

Yeah Lim, it was me. Sometimes I sign one way and sometimes the other. I don't control it. It comes the way it does as it chooses

Andrew

[Liminality]

Okay! Just wanted to be sure.

[Andyman73]

Okay! Just wanted to be sure.

Oh yeah, no problem.

I hope it's okay if I join this thread.

Sunrise, all are welcome on my threads. I want and need what you with to share. Everybody brings something to the table.

Sunrise, I had no idea of these different parts. So..I don't even know exactly what mine are. Little andy is a toddler from my earliest csa. Broken Andy is his guardian, also steps in when I get emotionally overwhelmed...he hasn't fronted IRL as far as I know(!?!)But can be seen online. He is 11 and writes in short choppy sentences and talks in 3rd person. Big Silent Andrew is full grown adult who may be mute. He just sits or stands and stares off into the distance with tear filled eyes.  I think there is a 5-6 year old here and a young adult..or older teen. Don't know, somebody is quite interested in the comings and goings here and on the survivor community I also belong to.

I never ever questioned this whole thing. Even as a kid...wonder if cuz I was already a part of it?  When I first heard about Sybil...all I could think was...well...yeah, duh!    And it's been mostly proven we humans only use an average of 10% of our gray matter...so who is to say what can't be?

Sunrise...I see you. You Do Matter...all of you. 

Could be it's own board...that's a good idea.

[sanmagic7]

i was referred here by another member, and am now feeling overwhelmed and nervous about posting.  i wrote in my journal wondering about alters, which i really haven't seen mentioned here.  i don't know if what i'm talking about is the same as the rest of you.

i can recognize my inner child - she is anywhere from a baby to about 6, i think, but i really don't have the experience with her that i'm reading about here.  in essence, she is just the younger, bewildered version of myself who . . . i don't know how to explain her.  i've put her in the care of an angel, an image i found and printed out of an angel holding a baby. 

my questions, which i wrote about in my journal, were wondering if i have alters, a brand new concept for me to even think about.  dang, i'm near tears now - very nervous, feeling very fragile at the moment.  anyway, many years ago, i had completed the educational part needed to become a certified addictions counselor.  the next step was to get into an internship for 18 mos. to complete the requirements.

when i showed up for the interview, i was just me.  when i walked thru the door, it was as if i stayed outside, and someone else sat down at the desk.  that someone was purely gray, like a great glob of gray clay, and had an extremely flat voice.  i am normally very colorful and upbeat, so i didn't know what was happening or how it happened. 

the interview went abysmally.  i stayed gray and flat thru the whole thing, all my personality gone, answered the questions, and left.  as soon as i was outside the office, i was my regular self again.  i noted this, and have remembered this, and never consciously acknowledged it to anyone, except in a lighthearted manner. 

(as it turned out, another job that i'd wanted was offered to me a few weeks later, one that i wouldn't have been able to accept if i'd been able to do the internship.  at the time, i just said 'god works in mysterious ways', and left it at that.)

a few weeks ago, i had to answer some questions over the phone before my mri.  nothing brutal, mainly do you have any metal in your body type stuff, but i noticed that the gray persona with the flat voice answered the questions, very short, abrupt 'no', 'no', 'no'.  my personality was again gone, don't know where it went.  and, again, it felt like i had been possessed.  i couldn't change how i was answering the questions. 

after i hung up, i turned to my d, and i was fine again.  then, a few days ago, there was a mistake with an appt. for this new t i'm to see tomorrow, and i heard myself speaking in this high-pitched, chirpy voice 'i'm so sorry' several times, when i really had nothing to apologize for.  i don't know why the mistake was made or who made it.  i sounded like a valley girl or something, which i most definitely am not and never have been.

could these be alters?  i'm consciously acknowledging this phenomenon today, something i hadn't really done too much in the past.   i'm very confused about this.  i also have different tones of voice that come out, even when saying 'hi' to people i pass.  is this normal?  if this t works out tomorrow, i'll certainly ask her about it, but i reckon that'll be somewhere down the line. 

just thought of one more time when i'd act very differently than usual.  when my ex and i went to couples counseling, i would almost disappear into a shell, would hardly speak (even tho i had plenty to say) was afraid of coming off as an overblown gritch so i let him do most of the talking.  when i did talk, my voice was very small and quiet.  that is definitely not the usual me - i'm loud and big.

any opinions, thoughts, whatnot would be appreciated.   i don't have a handle on 'inners' like i've read about here, or anything about ages and such.  just these few examples of a personality and voice change that baffles me.  i've only just had some realizations that i've experienced depersonalization, don't know if this is related.  that's been more of hearing voices talking to me in my head, and doing or saying things without planning to.  they just come out of me without any will behind them - no plans, no beforethoughts, just pop out and i wonder where that came from, that it wasn't me.

this is all very new to me and i don't quite know what to make of it.  i nearly didn't write this cuz it was scaring the crapola out of me to acknowledge it again, twice in one day.  ugh!  whack-a-mole.   i had no idea i was so messed up.

[AphoticAtramentous]

Hey San, read your post in your journal, read your snippet here. Just wanted to say you're really not alone. I am VERY familiar with this kind of stuff, been living with these things for a while. I'm not sure what they are scientifically/officially... but I do label them as alters. In another thread I described three different types of alters and I believe you're experiencing the second type in particular.

#2. The alter(s) that slip in unnoticed, they are more just like different versions of yourself, reacting and thinking differently to how you normally would but you can remember most things. These ones come involuntarily and I believe they are influenced by who you are with at the time/what you are doing.

Does that sound about right?
(This is my own theory work by the way, gathered from my own and others' experiences so take my words with a grain of salt, please. )

But I too have alters like that. One that is very upbeat and chipper, responding to things loudly and optimistically. Then another that is very 'down', says 'yes' and 'no' and is just generally rather quiet and keeps to herself. They usually come about when I'm talking and interacting with others, and really impact the way things are handled. And yes, they have different tones of voice and all. I haven't discussed much of this with my T, I'd be interested to know what your T thinks though, I'm sure she'd have something a lot more educated to say about it than my own theories. Haha
Don't be nervous about this though, please. I'm so happy you've posted about this! I don't know why but the idea of inners and alters intrigues the * out of me and I'm always so happy to read about other people's experiences on this matter. Really makes me feel less alone, and I hope you feel the same!

[sanmagic7]

aa, that sounded exactly right.  thank you.  yes, it does feel good not to feel alone with this, but it's making me aware that i'm way more messed up in my mind than i ever imagined! 

i realized another one last nite, who's only appeared twice as well.  once when i was a teen, once a few months ago.   my sis was/is a bully, and we fought all the time, she getting the best end of the deal always.  one day it was like i snapped, started pushing her down the hall of our house, didn't stop till she got to the other end.  couldn't have stopped myself if i wanted to.  it was like a reaction to the 'last straw'.

then, just before i left mex., my hub admitted to pulling a 'fast one' that he'd hidden from me for a month.  again, i snapped, started yelling and screaming, calling names (something i never do to people) and went on until it was all out.  thinking about these 2 incidents, it's like a pressure cooker thing.  the pressure finally gets to a point of explosion, and there's just no stopping it voluntarily.

i suppose these anger alters are there to protect me in some way from tolerating more than my emotional mind can handle.  i'm normally a very, exceedingly tolerant person (with the alexithymia, i didn't have anger in my emotional repertoire),  only getting in touch with past anger.  present anger is still kind of a mystery to me. 

boy, it's weird to wrap my head around the idea that i have alternate personalities who just show up every so often unbidden, do their thing, then recede back to wherever they  live.  what a mess!  i'm too old for this crud - it seems like every week or so there's something new i need to deal with, process, get used to, adjust to.  this is the twilight of my years, for crying out loud.

thanks, aa, for your theories.  they fit for me.  i appreciate it very much.  big hug to you.

[ah]

Absolutely, I can definitely relate too... I've maybe got different parts of me but they're not that well defined.

Then again I didn't even know I have c-ptsd till a month ago. I had no therapy. I don't find it easy to trust therapists after being misdiagnosed and mislabeled and re-traumatized as a teen as part of my parents' attempt to silence me (I was the dumb kid who tried to speak up and stop what was going on).

So I obviously don't know myself, so I don't know. I feel a little like I'm waking up from a dream. But I do remember violently "splitting" off from myself a few times in childhood. I didn't know what was happening at the time, so "splitting" was the only word I had for it. On a few bad occasions I remember that I woke up and then the instant I woke up and I remembered what had happened my mind snapped, like there was a very loud thud and I "split". I never told anyone about these splits before. I do have some seriously messed up memories chronologically, years and memories going backwards and forwards in ways that make no sense, contradictory memories.

Hope this isn't as confusing as it feels as I'm writing it now.

[Blueberry]

(I was the dumb kid who tried to speak up and stop what was going on).

ah, I was this kid too in FOO. But I don't think "dumb" is the correct word for us then. We were in fact very intelligent - we saw through the lies and deception. We were also very brave, and I was loyal - I tried to save FOO repeatedly. You maybe did too - I don't have your history at my finger tips. I was tenacious and persevered (too) long. You quite possibly have these two latter characteristics too. These are all good characteristics! We just had the misfortune to be born into families who didn't appreciate it one little bit.

Just wanted to say that, though you probably want a comment on splitting. I think it used to be called 'splitting' so no worries there. I may be different from some people on here in that my different parts came bit by bit through therapy. I'm not sure. I'll leave others on here to comment on this.

[Andyman73]

sanmagic7,
Thank you for being so brave for posting on this thread. I wish I could answer your questions. I don't know nuthin bout nuthin...so I depend on the informed words of others like the lovely blueberry.

I know my childhood was rather chaotic. I endured csa/r/cpa and dv type abuses, then went into the U.S. Marines out of high school, where I was indoctrinated in MC based programming after being systemically broken down, having the individual removed, and programmed into a near autonomous Marine. The ability to feel and deal with non agressive emotions was blocked by the whole MC/programming during basic training. I've literally just come to realize this in the past week or so. After some pa and sa and loads of mental and emotional abuse in the Marines, I married a CN who continued on DV abusing me...adult sa, pa, mental, emotional, verbal abuse of me.

My memories have only been returning since this year...going back 42 years. And for all that time....probably 30% is lost time, hidden, missing or just no longer existing memory.  Deja vu has been a constant in my life since young childhood...between that and trying to tell my parents things...I was denied, ignored, rebuffed, told I lied as easy as breathing, talk too much, stories far to fantastical to be true, outlandish, over embellished...and just plain old fashioned unbelievable. This was as recent as 4 years ago at age 40.

All I can say for sure...someone experienced the deja vu memories when they happened, because someone else had the deja vu and tried to tell mommy and daddy.

Let me tell you all this....I do not remember anything I ever ever ever told my parents...even from 4 years ago, that I was told then, couldn't be true or real. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I got in trouble for stuff that I never remembered having done.  Oh, and neither of my brothers ever really got intouble for anyting.

As for thuds and obvious splitting sensations...don't remember. I have a loud explosion noise in my head...which I think is a sound memory from my 2 childhood concussions...both which were severe enough to be TBI...I know after the second one...where I was unconcious for maybe up to 10 minutes...was when I began floating away into the trees during school, and ever since...even now...I was 6 years old when got that second concussion(thanks mommy).

OH yeah...welcome to this exciting discussion thread! 

[Blueberry]

I don't know nuthin bout nuthin...so I depend on the informed words of others like the lovely blueberry.

Thank you for the compliment, Andyman.
However,I don't think you're as clueless as you're suggesting. I may know more theory on this topic and I have got inner parts better sorted and quite a few fairly well integrated, but you on the other hand seem to be aware of your parts and can speak directly from them. Without even having done any therapy. Wow. 

[Andyman73]

I don't know nuthin bout nuthin...so I depend on the informed words of others like the lovely blueberry.

Thank you for the compliment, Andyman.
However,I don't think you're as clueless as you're suggesting. I may know more theory on this topic and I have got inner parts better sorted and quite a few fairly well integrated, but you on the other hand seem to be aware of your parts and can speak directly from them. Without even having done any therapy. Wow. 

Oh, well, Blueberry...trust me...I really don't know, like informed knowledge. I don't understand any of it, really. And I haven't told anyone, neither of my ts or anybody else, IRL. What I know, is what I learned on the other online community I belong to. But honestly...can't let them speak directly, as the moderators there keep a sharp eye out on things. And only the account owner is officially allowed to speak. Which indirectly, really hurts...makes them, and me feel invisible and invalidated. I know it's not done out of spite or anything, just the rules. 

I even had a friend tell me they can't handle talking with them...for their own issues, which also feels hard, too. So...not all fun and games. I really appreciate your support and kindness. You are quite the wonderful friend. 

[AphoticAtramentous]

But honestly...can't let them speak directly, as the moderators there keep a sharp eye out on things. And only the account owner is officially allowed to speak. Which indirectly, really hurts...makes them, and me feel invisible and invalidated. I know it's not done out of spite or anything, just the rules. 

I get how you feel there. I would love to be more open with my alters, I think at times they can be a fascinating thing and my more defined alters are seeming to always want to jump out and be included in the fun but alas... people would find it a little strange that I'm acting a little hyper and overly sensitive all of a sudden. >.> And of course, it's against the rules. :\

Just a random question that's sprung up though kinda related to alters and what not, has anyone ever read their own posts here and felt really confused? Like; "I wrote that. But this doesn't sound anything like me! Why did I say that? What on earth was I thinking when I posted this?"
Cause I feel like that for like, 75% of my posts. Haha

[woodsgnome]

Aphoticatramentous wrote: "...has anyone ever read their own posts here and felt really confused? Like; I wrote that?...Why did I say that? What on earth was I thinking when I posted this?"

I feel less confused about what I wanted to say, but I'm continuously re-editing as if I could somehow say it better. That said, I often agonize over saying anything, as I'm still unlearning self-doubt in favour of a self-worth outlook. Self-doubt wins too often, but it's a big problem, I feel.

Of course part of this is the desperate reach for perfectionism many of us feel; we were told we never got it right and didn't deserve to be heard. Then we were often misunderstood if and when we did dare to say what we felt, were belittled or worse, and took our hurt inside. Then we wonder if anyone else gets us, or ever will.

I think it just goes with the territory of wanting to figure any of this out, while at the same time trying to get through another day (or minute). That said, it's all new territory, this land we're trying to find beyond the hurt. It's so bad that just staying hurt can feel better than this effort to be understood.