Age limit? *trigger warning*

[Lilfae]

My first abuse was by another child a few years older than me when I was about 4 or 5, maybe 6? I keep forgetting about it, i dont quite know why.

My second sexual abuse started when I was 16. The sexual legal age. He was six years older than I and it lasted for 5-6 years. But I never considered myself as a child. That I had been abused in my childhood. But this week a support person at the center for incest and sexual assault told me in no uncertain words that I had been a child. That at 16 I was still a child. And it might sound stupid,  because I too do consider 16 year olds for children. So then why wasnt I one? I dont know if it matters yet, this apiphany. Other than making me more sad. Sad for my past me. My younger self.

[Dee]

When I was 17 a court of law considered me a child and not responsible.  My abuser went to jail.

[Lilfae]

It's good to hear that you managed to report your assaulter, and that he got jail time!  I never reported anyone, as I never felt like I had any proof. I didn't want to go through the process and loose.

[Frederica]

My second sexual abuse started when I was 16. The sexual legal age. He was six years older than I and it lasted for 5-6 years. But I never considered myself as a child. That I had been abused in my childhood. But this week a support person at the center for incest and sexual assault told me in no uncertain words that I had been a child. That at 16 I was still a child. And it might sound stupid,  because I too do consider 16 year olds for children. So then why wasnt I one? I dont know if it matters yet, this apiphany. Other than making me more sad. Sad for my past me. My younger self.

I have similar dissonant thoughts, Lilfae - I consider teenagers to be children, unequivocally. But I forget that applies to 16 year old me, as well. And I feel guilty sometimes for "allowing" the abuse to continue for 4-5 more years, since at some point I crossed that arbitrary line (age of consent is 18 in my state). Maybe we didn't feel like children when we were 16 because we were already trying to act like little adults in order to survive, be it physically or emotionally. It makes me sad and angry at my younger self to think about it, too. I hope repeating this fact - I was a child - might help with self-forgiveness. I think your epiphany matters, go with those thoughts if you can.

[AphoticAtramentous]

Whether you are a child or not depends on a lot of things. Law says you're a child till you're 18, some people say you don't fully mature till you're 23 and thus a child till then, and some people say you're a child till you're 14. It all depends on what definition of 'child' you want to use.
I personally wouldn't call '16 years old' a child, thought that is just me. For me I felt like I stopped being a child at 12 years old. I had to smarten up and mature real quickly if I had to depend on myself so much, since I didn't have my parents' support. I had to do heaps of things on my own, and I never ever asked for help or ask questions like a child would. I've taken offence to people calling me a child, I probably was overreacting, but there's something about someone calling you a 'child' - supposedly the epitome of innocence and the happiest of people - and you're none of that. I guess that's just me though. I know people who are 22 and still call themselves children. I dunno.

[Dee]

When there is a power imbalance the age is irrelevant.  Still, at 16 a person cannot fully understand what is going on.  They are still developing cognitively.

[Andyman73]

As I was getting my memories back, my younger years came later, I remembered sa that happened on the school bus for an entire school year...9 months 7-10 times a week...by a 14 yr old girl. I was 17...and in the State I resided at that time, a minor, therefor a child, therefore sa became csa. However about 7-8 weeks after it began, I turned 18. At that point I knew she had me...one word and I would instantly be criminalized...and that kept me trapped in that situation for the duration of the school year. This was my first recovered memory of any abuse from my childhood...and it kinda blew my mind. 

[Liminality]

[...] there's something about someone calling you a 'child' - supposedly the epitome of innocence and the happiest of people - and you're none of that. I guess that's just me though.

Definitely not just you. By society's standards (where "being a child" means being innocent, happy, carefree, with no "real" fears/responsibilities/problems/life experience, etc.) I've never been a child. How could I? I was (among other things) sexually abused from birth, every week non-stop until two months before I turned 6. My experience of childhood is so very removed from how everyone portrays it it's not even funny anymore (and never really was to begin with).

However, I gained perspective since I've been out of my 20s. Any situation where you are taken advantage of specifically because of the helplessness of your youth (and yes, that also includes you Andy) can be seen as child abuse if you wish so. You can struggle to see it that way, but it doesn't make that assessment less valid.

You can choose not to apply that label to yourself though, especially if you're still young and the idea of being seen as a child makes you feel more vulnerable.

But if it helps you understand it wasn't your fault (because it definitely wasn't!), then please allow yourself to think of your past self as a child who was taken advantage of. Because for all intent and purposes, it wouldn't be a lie.

[Andyman73]

However, I gained perspective since I've been out of my 20s. Any situation where you are taken advantage of specifically because of the helplessness of your youth (and yes, that also includes you Andy) can be seen as child abuse if you wish so. You can struggle to see it that way, but it doesn't make that assessment less valid.

Liminality, I'd like to add on to this from my own life..at the time that I remembered the aforementioned incident, any childhood abuse memories were still hidden. But since then I've had memories return to me that started before my 3rd birthday with a 4 day stay with a couple, where the man DAR/CSA me several times a night, all 4 nights. Yes, there was penetration. Around the same time I was being CSA by a teen boy at nursery/day care I was attending. At least one time he AR me and OR me as well.  Most of those memories involving him are hidden still. But ever since that time I've had problems with going to the bathroom. I also had excruciatingly painful body memories of the penetration as well.  There is more...including CPA from my parents, mostly my mom, which includes 6 years of CPA from age 5 to age 11. With emotional and mental abuse continuing through my teen and early adult years.

I just wanted to add this to give a little better understanding of where I"m coming from. Thanks.

[Liminality]

Yes, I've read a few of your posts, most of them which I relate to strongly. You've been through the mills, there's absolutely no doubt about it.

I was just offering validation to anyone who has been sexually abused as a late teen/early20s, and I named you because I wished to include your 17-18th years old experience. That's all.

[Andyman73]

Yes, I've read a few of your posts, most of them which I relate to strongly. You've been through the mills, there's absolutely no doubt about it.

I was just offering validation to anyone who has been sexually abused as a late teen/early20s, and I named you because I wished to include your 17-18th years old experience. That's all.

I do appreciate being thought of....I struggle to feel noticed and thought of. 

Early 20s....   When I was 20, in the Marines, I was coerced via promise of a really good price on a nice restored older truck.  I went over a middle aged woman's (cougar?) house for some light handyman work and yard work. After the 4th weekend, she wanted something else worked on...namely her.  She promised a super good deal on truck, and even maybe return service...so I did...orally and digitally, for 2 hours...till she decided she was done. Then she said I have to leave then. No truck, and no returned favor either. A few days after that was the first time I attempted sui.

A few months later, I was targeted, groomed and SA 2X by a local used car salesman. He was more than 10 years older than me, and twice my size...and according to my first t...an apex predator. I stood no chance whatsoever. The first time was about a month before I turned 21, second time about a month after turning 21. He promised to kill me if I told..and he caught me off the base. And he would claim it was consensual gay sex and my idea. At that time it was illegal for gay men to serve in the U.S. Armed Forces. So falsely outing me would most likely have resulted in me being beaten to death by my fellow Marines...which was happening. And then the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ ) would have charged and convicted me...if I survived being beaten. This haunted me for the next 4 years as I served out my 6 year enlistment.

About 18 months later, while deployed overseas, I was physically assaulted by a physically larger drunk female Sailor. Then she SA me. She was drunk as they come...which automatically made me, a sober male Marine the aggressor and guilty party. I couldn't even yell for help......

[AphoticAtramentous]

Definitely not just you. By society's standards (where "being a child" means being innocent, happy, carefree, with no "real" fears/responsibilities/problems/life experience, etc.) I've never been a child. How could I? I was (among other things) sexually abused from birth, every week non-stop until two months before I turned 6. My experience of childhood is so very removed from how everyone portrays it it's not even funny anymore (and never really was to begin with).

However, I gained perspective since I've been out of my 20s. Any situation where you are taken advantage of specifically because of the helplessness of your youth (and yes, that also includes you Andy) can be seen as child abuse if you wish so. You can struggle to see it that way, but it doesn't make that assessment less valid.

You can choose not to apply that label to yourself though, especially if you're still young and the idea of being seen as a child makes you feel more vulnerable.

But if it helps you understand it wasn't your fault (because it definitely wasn't!), then please allow yourself to think of your past self as a child who was taken advantage of. Because for all intent and purposes, it wouldn't be a lie.

I think I'm still at an age where people would be happy to call me a child. And I might have to resist lashing out on them lol. I'm certainly not as gullible/helpless as I was, I refuse to make any of the same mistakes I'd made that got me into so much trouble and mess when I was younger. And from all the experiences I've been through, it was almost impossible to befriend 'kids my age' (and still is really). I just had nothing in common with them. So I usually befriended people much older than me, spending time with people who weren't classified as 'children', it made me feel a lot more comfortable. I'd be interested to know if that's the same with others here.
Thanks for your response, Liminality.

[Andyman73]

Aphotic,

Last friend IRL I had, died over 14 years ago..and he was my twin brother's friend that I borrowed. Last friend that was truly mine at the outset...K...back in Kindergarten...
When I was in second grade, the prettiest girl in the class invited the entire class to her birthday party...well, not really. Didn't invite teacher..didn't invite Andy either. Said there was something wrong with me, I was too strange and she couldn't have me ruining her party by being there. So...at age 7 I learned that I was/am different. But I didn't know why...I do now.
I didn't spend time with older people...either, couldn't trust them...looking back...until I was 15, every abuser had been older...anywhere from 10 years to 30plus years older.

[Lilfae]

I have similar dissonant thoughts, Lilfae - I consider teenagers to be children, unequivocally. But I forget that applies to 16 year old me, as well. And I feel guilty sometimes for "allowing" the abuse to continue for 4-5 more years, since at some point I crossed that arbitrary line (age of consent is 18 in my state). Maybe we didn't feel like children when we were 16 because we were already trying to act like little adults in order to survive, be it physically or emotionally. It makes me sad and angry at my younger self to think about it, too. I hope repeating this fact - I was a child - might help with self-forgiveness. I think your epiphany matters, go with those thoughts if you can.

I also feel guilty for allowing to happen, but I also have to keep reminding me that at the age of 16, I had no idea what was really going on. I was being manipulated and brainwashed.  Most of those years have blacked out for me, I remember parts. The parts I remember are usually not the direct abuse, but rather the consequences. I stopped sleeping for a while, because I was too afraid. I became borderline psychotic due to the lack of sleep. i was suicidal and self destructive. But I also remember after I moved in with said abuser, at some point I would wake up at 7 in the morning and be paralyzed. I would be completely unable to move my body for the next 10 hours. It was *. It was like that for over a week before he took me to the ER. As I couldn't move, he couldn't take me earlier in the day. But still... He shouldn't have waited a week. I've wondered if the doctors knew it was a psychosomatic reaction to fear, and if they did why they chose to medicate me instead. I hope they didn't realise, that would make them less of a*holes.

But maybe you're right. I bet most 16 year olds doesn't consider themselves to be children either. Even if nothing traumatic has happened to them.  But maybe some of us had more to deal with so there was no time left to be children. Though, I think someone else pointed this out too.. Biologically we're not finished growing either mentally or physically at the age of 16. Women or Men. Maybe that's what really defines us as children and adults, that once we're fully develloped, that's when we truly have grown up?

[Lilfae]

I've taken offence to people calling me a child, I probably was overreacting, but there's something about someone calling you a 'child' - supposedly the epitome of innocence and the happiest of people - and you're none of that. I guess that's just me though. I know people who are 22 and still call themselves children. I dunno.

I have to admit, although people no longer call me a child. I do get bothere by the fact that people still say "you're so young", when I'm in my 30ies. And I suppose, for some of them I am still young, because I am younger than them. And I do feel young, I feel stuck in time. So eventhough I know I'm past 30, I feel like time has moved past without me. 

I don't think I considered myself a child either when I was 16. But legally I was. And so were you, both at the age of 12, 14 and 16.