Question about Psychotherapy.

[Esmeralda]

Again, thank you for your advice, support and sharing of your own experiences, Sceal, AH and Sanmagic.

AH, I am so sorry for what your FOO put you through by presenting you to the world as a manipulative liar with a PD. I can't imagine how hard it must have been. I have always struggled with the fact that the "the world" didn't understand the reality that I lived in but it was slightly different in my case - my N mother pretended to be a normal, loving mother and although some things must have been off, no one really knew what * I was going through every day, even my extended family who I was close with. And I'm still struggling to some degree with the fact that I look normal on the outside so no one knows about the * that is still going on in my mind.. Which feels unfair.

Tomorrow I will have my fourth session with this psychologist and to be honest I am not looking forward to it. I do not have much hope at this point that this will work out for me. I spent the first three sessions trying very hard to make this lady understand what my problems really are and I don't feel that I have got anything out of these sessions. So so far this is not going anywhere.

As for being directionless, it is not a stabilisation stage. She mentioned nothing about stabilisation. It is also not a stage where we have already done some work and can now be "directionless". It's only just started and we don't even seem to understand each other.

She is either inexperienced or a bad match for me, or both. Sadly.

Sometimes I think that the best T for me would be someone who went through similar problems but overcame them and educated themselves about it and got trained as a T. Such a person would definitely be able to help me. This lady, though, seems to struggle when it comes to empathising with me, so maybe her life experiences were very different?

In any case the fact that I have to teach, almost lecture my T about the condition that I believe I have is not reassuring. The same apllies to the fact that a psychiatrist that I wanted to give me the correct diagnosis, mentions automatically BPD for no reason whatsoever. Particularly because my problems come from being a victim of abuse and people with BPD, although they themselves suffer because of their disorder, they are prone to abuse and mistreat others, so to put these two conditions together, almost equate them and do so for no reason is really upsetting.

Well, I will go tomorrow and see what happens and what the T will say after I spent the whole session reading to her about C-PTSD in detail and after I told her how important it is to me to get the diagnosis. Maybe she will come up with something useful. If not, I will probably try and find another T, who might be a better match.

[sanmagic7]

dear esmerelda, too many times we have to be the teachers to the professionals, whether it be mental or physical health.  it's just a shame, and i'm really sorry you're not getting the help you want or need.

i'm struggling as well.  i don't know if this will work.  it seems like a chore to go see her, rather than something to look forward to as a place of guidance, information, and healing.  i don't know.

i'm standing with you - you're not alone.  i hope you find some satisfaction, that it's just taking some time.  best to you.  big hug.

[Blueberry]

san and esmerelda,

I'm sorry it's the case for both of you atm, not feeling understood or well-supported. 

[Esmeralda]

Thank you Blueberry for the hugs. Thank you Sanmagic for sharing and being with me through this therapy experience. I'm very sorry to hear that you are not feeling great in your therapy either. I hope I have not added any negativity to your thoughts about your own therapy.

I really don't want to be negative or put anyone off seeking help.

But I have to write more about it because I'm just fresh out of my fourth session and quite disheartened, and now I have hardly any hope that it will go somewhere. Wrtiting here helps me clear my mind and also helps me have written details of what went on, so that I can look back at it if I need to (if I have to explain to anyone in future why this wasn't working for me).

Basically, session number 4 felt to me like a repeat of number 1,2 and 3. All I've been trying to do so far is to explain to the T what I have experienced and what my life and problems are like at the moment. I believe I've done a great job describing it to the best of my ability for the 4 hours I've had with her. And my ability to describe my experiences is very good from what I've been told before.

She still doesn't seem to fully understand it and I have felt very little, if any, empathy from her. She seems detached and reserved and all she does is listen when I talk about my pain. Then when I stop she would look at me and have a long pause, then ask a question. The few times she tried to sum up what I'd said, she got it wrong or said something so convoluted that I didn't know what she was trying to say. And she only tries occasionally anyway.

She asked me today if I was ready to talk about the details of my past trauma and I said I was but if it had a purpose, and asked her what the purpose would be in this therapy, and I did not get an actual answer. I told her that if I'm to talk about it just for the purpose of saying it, then I don't think it would help me.

I actually told her that I've been trying to tell her the whole time how I feel and I believe I've really done it. I told her I don't feel like I'm getting anything out of this, since there is no feedback, no return, no reflection or different perspective from her. I come and talk, get more upset in the process and leave without anything to hold on to, any tools, anything to work with.

I said that if it was going to be like this, me talking and she just listening and asking a question here and there, then I don't think it will be helpful for me. She said she was still trying to get to know me. I agreed to come again in a week to talk about the therapy specifically.

One thing she said astonished me. I was telling her about my difficulties and painful emotions I feel every day and she said she found it "interesting" because she didn't see any signs of these emotions in my appearance.. And that maybe I am like that with everyone else so no one knows how distressed I am therefore I never get the help I need. That was because I told her earlier how my childhood was extra painful because the abuse I was going through was hidden from the world.. She really doesn't seem to have a clue.

The thing is, I was sitting there talking and at the same time struggling to keep my composure, struggling to breathe, trembling, my voice trembling, my eyes welling up sometimes briefly.. And on previous occasions I was even worse, had to wipe away tears throughout each session.. And she didn't see any signs of distress in me? Like, *?? For the second time in four sessions she made me feel like the fact that she was unable to help me was my fault. Like she couldn't empathise with me because I wasn't showing my distress enough?? Can she not just listen to my words and try to imagine the feelings, if my trembling and fighting tears is not enough? And what does she need anyway to fully see my pain? Do I have to break down into a puddle on the floor? I'm sure if I did she would still sit there in the same way, saying very little.

I told her at the end that I was surprised she couldn't see my distress.

As for the subject of diagnosis, she said she as a psychologist cannot give me a formal diagnosis and even a psychiatrist wouldn't at the moment because C-PTSD will only become an official diagnosis when the updated version of the ICD in May 2018.

[Esmeralda]

Only the very first time I saw her she said at the end of the session that she was sorry I'd been though so much and she thought I was resourceful. Since then she never said anything like what other T would say (I had brief encounters with several), for example "it must have been so hard for you" or anything like that, anything that would make me feel understood and validated.

She just sits there, quiet and expressionless, not even nodding, looking quite closed off with her hands on her lap.

[sanmagic7]

esmeralda, in no way are you adding anything neg. to my own t experience.  what you are adding is further food for thought about if this is being helpful to me.  there's a lot i can relate to, especially

The few times she tried to sum up what I'd said, she got it wrong or said something so convoluted that I didn't know what she was trying to say.

,'

that's happened with me as well several times.  also, mine has said nothing about stabilization, which is why i felt like the therapy is directionless.  it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.  she does nod, at least, said that i was a miracle to be here at all after everything i've gone thru, stuff like that, but i don't feel like i'm getting any guidance as to what to do next, which direction to go.

the one thing she said to me that helped was to take some time off from continuing to research any of this, that i knew enough.  i reinterpreted that to mean i just needed to be with myself for a bit, which, thankfully, was very helpful.  however, most of the breakthroughs i'm now experiencing have been of my own doing.

like, grieving my heartbreaks.  continuing to post here for support.  being mindful of my tension levels in my body.  she hasn't suggested any of that.

i do have another session next week, and we'll see what happens.  i've been going thru some very physically and emotionally stressful times that i can report about, but, honestly, altho i thought about calling her, my second thought was 'what could she do for me?'  when i've asked her to help calm me down the day before my surgery, all she did was list off things for me to do on my own, and cut the session short..  i'd wanted the calming exercise to come from her, and she didn't get that at all.

i'll be interested to hear how your next session goes.  i know that i have a difficult time relating to someone who just sits there without giving me feedback of some kind, even if just a head nod.  yeah, i guess i am going thru this with you.  i can relate a lot to your experience.  big hug to you, es.   i'm glad you're standing up for yourself.   i think that's a good thing.

[ah]

hi Esmeralda,

I think what you're writing is anything but negative. It's thought provoking, important, interesting.
I hope a therapist or two might read it one day too 

I want to add another thought to this thread: I don't have a therapist, can't afford therapy. I'm not the only one. So for experience and understanding I come here to the forums, they function as a support group. They also teach me a lot.
I haven't been diagnosed with c-ptsd, it would probably be important in some contexts such as getting mh treatment / insurance coverage, but in my experience reading, figuring things out slowly on my own is working too.
There's so much emphasis put on traditional t but when that's not doable, I don't think it's the only way to learn about c-ptsd, gain insights (just like sanmagic is doing) and make sense of our experiences and emotions.

It's not ideal without t, I agree, but it can be done. If you don't have a good connection with your t, keep looking and searching and we're here for you. 

Are there any specialized trauma societies you can try to contact? They may know more and be able to offer more accurate help, or at least some advice where you might be able to look.

I haven't met your t, but she sounds like she might not be a good fit for me either 
To be honest, if she isn't trauma-experienced I would personally look to her for validation and I think you may be 100% in guessing she may be inexperienced, so it may be rough on her.
Her question to you whether you're ready to talk about the details of your past trauma may be appropriate for ptsd (I think) but less so for c-ptsd with multiple, beginningless / endless traumas that are more people oriented than event oriented experiences. c-ptsd seems to me to be more a betrayal on a personal level than a traumatic list of events. It's not really a traumatic experience that is causing me pain, it's my whole life of traumas that's doing it. It puts the emphasis somewhere else.
Maybe she's in good company, I guess very few therapists know about c-ptsd and are experienced in it.
So much of this is physiological and for me, understanding what my body is doing is an important part of the puzzle so I self educate and try to make sense of what I learn.

Just my two cents. Or a cent and a half, since I'm not a t. Just someone with c-ptsd who reads far too much.

[Eyessoblue]

Hi
I've been reading all you've said and really feel that you have not got a good match there. Therapy is such a major deal and to be able to basically bare your soul and put everything out there you have to feel completely safe and confident that this therapist you are telling everything to does 'get you' and understands where you are coming from, I'm just worried that already you have your gut feeling when you don't think she's understanding you that the relationship will be difficult to develop. I am on my 3rd therapist now and finally realised what a good therapist is, she is specifically trained in trauma too which makes the world of difference, someone who understands totally what I've been through, she's always empathetic and very intuitive to my expressions or what I'm trying to say, are you in a position where you can be offered a different therapist? I hope you are because if that match isn't right I really don't think it will work for you. Best of luck.

[sanmagic7]

hey, esmeralda, just wanted to let you know that i fired my therapist the other day.  realized she was clueless, wasn't asking questions to find out about me and my issues, and that i was having to continually teach her about what direction i needed to go in, what i was needing from here - in essence, i was directing the therapy instead of the other way around.

so, done with that.  i'm looking into some alternative healing methods now.  i'm peaceful with my decision, which gives me a signal that i did the right thing.  i hope you have better luck than i did.  if not, it's ok to let your t go, find someone or something different to help you with this.

big hug to you.  i'd love to know how yours works out, if you care to share.  sending strength and stabilization to you in that hug.

[Esmeralda]

So I went to see the T for the fifth time but this time with the sole purpose to discuss the therapy. She knew about it and this time she quickly started this subject, which was different from the other times when she would just look at me and then ask a faint question about how things had been the previous week.

This time, with a clearer head (since I wasn't talking about my painful stuff) I realised how inadequate she really was. I saw more distinctly bad patterns between us that had been present from the start.

For example she would not answer my questions. This time I asked the same questions about the therapy and her approach that I had asked on previous occasions without getting an answer. This time I had to insist on an answer. I found myself saying things like "I asked you this question before" or "I'm asking this for about fifth time" and "can you please answer this question". Example of questions that she had trouble answering are "What is your role in this therapy", "Are you here just to listen while I am supposed to talk all the time", "Is this what this therapy is about". Only when I mentioned asking a question several times and insisted on an answer she would finally try to answer it but only briefly and then she would change the subject without really clarifying things.

This made me realise that this is what she had been doing the whole time. She would encourage me to talk about something (my painful experiences) and I would do that and when I stopped she would most of the time sit there quietly looking at me and then maybe ask another question which would direct me on a slightly different track and my hurt that I'd just opened up would go unaddressed, undealt with, just hanging in the air while I'd be struggling with some different aspect.

I mentioned this to her as well and again I had to say it several times and she would still ignore it and react in the exact same way changing subject. Then she would act as if I'd never said it, for example acting as if she wanted to understand what I didn't like about the therapy, when I had just told her!

I said to her that she hadn't been engaging with me and she was just sitting there being quiet, and she in a typical manner replied: "Mhm.. And I'm just wondering.." and started talking about whether I wanted to talk about my traumas in a general or detailed way, which was something that came up earlier. Basically I realised that this was a typical response of hers and the way she acted previously during therapy sessions when I talked about something painful. She'd be like "Mhm.. And I'm just wondering.." and would ignore what I'd just said and began talking about something different. I said it to her as well, I told her there had been no continuity and that the therapy was chaotic.

I metioned to her most of the stuff that I was bothered by in this therapy, I said that I was surprised that she had said she couldn't see my emotions which I was talking about, while I struggled (unsuccessfully) to keep my composure, so how did she expect me to act for her to see the emotions? This was a question that she also ignored and her response was that she thought that I must have been very closed off with other people since I had said that I never got the help I needed (I think this was referring to me saying that the abuse was hidden because I don't know what else it could be). So wait a minute - she came to a conclusion that I must have been closed off with people and not really showing how distressed I was because this was in her opinion an explanation for why I never got more help in my life, and this is why she said that she wasn't seeing my emotions when I clearly displayed them?? This is some seriously screwed up back-to-front thought process by a therapist! She basically was never focusing on what I was saying, she was never trying to imagine how this would feel, so I was right in my impression that she couldn't understand me and empathise with me. She just didn't pay that much attention to what i was saying and instead was creating her own theories and explanations in her head during therapy.

[Esmeralda]

Another thing that had made me feel uncomfortable was that she'd mentioned quite often how she needed to observe our interactions and our relationship so that she would have a better idea about how I interacted with people.. No other T that I dealt with before was so focused on that idea. No one else even mentioned it to me before but this T did at almost every session. It made me feel like I was some object to be observed, a subject of an experiment and not a person to engage with. I think she was too focused on things like that and not paying enough attention to what I was actually saying and trying to convey about how I feel. Plus, the way I interact with a T is not necessarily the way I interact with other people in my life, especially since other people come in many various capacities.

So this time the subject of our interactions came up a lot as well. I was saying a lot of stuff about what I was bothered by in this therapy with her (about the way she was acting) and she was mostly ignoring it and turning it all on me. She was asking me what our interactions reminded me of from my past. She was trying to blame my dissatisfaction with her on me and my past traumas. She was trying to turn it into analyzing my problems and finding explanation in my past. She asked me whether there was something in my past traumatic experienced that our relationship (of therapist and client) reminded me of. I said no, it's just that we don't understand each other. I had to insist on that.

She said things like that several times and when she started again saying something like "Maybe this therapy is not working because you.." I said that I didn't like the way she was using her position to put me in my place. It just came out of my mouth. She asked "Do you think I am using my professional position?" and I said "Yes because you keep saying the therapy doesn't work because I.." and I added "Maybe it's both of us". What I really wanted to say was "Maybe it's you" or "For sure it's you" but I decided to make it as non-confrontational as possible.

She said repeatedly that she was feeling that there was a lot of anger and frustration coming from me and she was wondering what it was caused by (probably suggesting my past traumas). I said I wasn't angry (I wasn't) and that I was frustrated for precisely the reasons that I had already mentioned many times.

She also asked me several times if I thought this kind of therapy wasn't for me and I said that I wanted to try this therapy with another therapist. She was trying to make it into anything other than take any responsibility.

She was very unhappy with me wanting to just try a different therapist. She asked me (more than once, and I answered the first time) what I wanted to talk about with a different therapist. The whole thing was really frustrating and it left me without any doubt that I shouldn't carry on with her. Honestly, it all seemed too twisted and frankly this kind of interaction could well be triggering for someone who had experienced emotional / psychological abuse.

In the end she very reluctantly said that she would speak to her colleagues and see what can be done. And that was that. I had to ask what colleagues and why not a supervisor. She said senior colleagues. I asked if I can talk to them and she looked very uncomfortable. Finally she said she would tell them to contact me. I asked when and she smiled and said she couldn't tell me that. There was no time frame and she wouldn't see them until a week later.

I have already tried to contact her supervisors myself and I have been given a phone number to call.

I can't help thinking that she is just really bad at her job.

[Esmeralda]

Sanmagic, Ah and Eyessoblue - once again big thank you for your sharing and support.

I agree that it is possible to help and heal ourselves with hard work, using information and inspiration from sites such as this, books etc. I have done tons of work over the years and have changed positively from the lost, pitiful person that I was at the beginning of my adult life and I have done most of it by myself. But there is still so much healing left to do, it is overwhelming sometimes.

As for afforing therapy, I also could not possibly afford private therapist, so I am dependent on what I can get from the NHS and it is very limited. It is not like in the US, where from what I'm reading it is easy to access therapy paid by insurance and one can choose a therapist. I waited 10 months from when I was referred and then I got this lady. Now I can hope to convince her supervisors to let me wait for another one without being put back at the bottom of the queue.

Yes, it is extremely important to have a T who understands and makes us feel safe. This one did neither. I'm wondering if she can possibly help anyone with the way she approaches therapy. I think she isn't just a bad match for me, I think she is not a good T at all. Sadly, these things happen. Maybe more often than we expect.

[Eyessoblue]

Hi Esmeralda, I didn't realise you were from the uk too, you have every right to ask to see someone else that definitely is not a good match for you, please don't be put off by that one therapist, she sounds very inexperienced to me and in your circumstances you really need to see someone specially trained in trauma, I've been really lucky and I'm with a specialist trained trauma counselling psychologist, the difference in her is huge compared to the other ones and my therapy is working really well because she knows what she's talking about!! I'm sorry you had to wait so long too, I know some others on here have had to wait a really long time too, I've been really lucky and seen really quickly plus had a mixture of EMDR and psychotherapy which works really well for me.

[Esmeralda]

Eyessoblue, thank you for validating my experience and needs.

It's good to hear that also living in the UK you've got the right therapy and a good experience that has really helped. I will keep trying.

You're right that this T sounds very inexperienced or just struggling at her job. Maybe she knows the theory but applying it in practice is a different story, as you need to have certain personal characteristics to be good at that.. Anyhow, my chapter with her is closed now.

Thank you.

[sanmagic7]

es, your experience sounds so similar to mine, and we both came to the same conclusions - not the right therapist for us.  and, like you, i don't see this one being very good at the whole therapy dynamic.  she told me she was there to support and validate me when i asked what was going on with what had been happening in our sessions.  no, i, too, was looking for someone much more directive and proactive.

i really hope you don't have to wait long, that you can get hold of a supervisor, and begin getting some proper therapy.  it does get so frustrating, that's for sure.  i believe you made the right decision.  by the by, my t was the one who even brought up the idea that i might seek help with someone else.  i don't like the way yours handled it at all.  big hug to you.