Wondering if this is ?Abusive or just Weird? TW - mentioning sexual content

[Andyman73]

Hi Hope,
Wow, I'm proud of you! Now, I don't want you to assume book will be light read for you or anybody else. But it is for me. I forgot to think about that beforehand. But I think most folks of average intelligence will find book fairly easy to read.
Hope, I really do want you to find validation and understanding in that book like I have. While not exactly making me better...I at least have a much better understanding of my own messy past. I'm looking forward to hearing some of your thoughts once you start reading the book.


Andy

[Hope67]

Hi Andy,
I am assuming the book is going to be reasonably heavy going to read, but also hopefully enlightening - I think it will be useful to me - I read some of the reviews.  I realised that it had sparked a little controversy - but I also suspect that some people may have responded more to the 'title' than having actually read it - and I would like to read it and then think about how much I can relate to it.  I am pleased that you recommend it, and thanks for pointing me in that direction.
Hope 

[LearnToLoveTheRide]

Hope

Just your reactions now indicate that it was a problem for you. If it was a problem it was abuse - intentional or not.

Young children are discovering their bodies and they have a very different relationship to their bodies than adults do. They are also incapable of understanding their boundaries and reactions, cannot verbalise what they are feeling, and for the most part are ignored.

The subconscious communicates with the conscious via feelings - it's one of the languages of the subconscious. If you feel it, it's a message.

I was medically trained before I had children. Due to medico-legal constraints, consent was always required before treating, touching a patient or performing any procedure.

Personally, I ask my children for their permission before I change them, bathe them, even feed them. If it needs to be done, we will discuss it, I will put their minds at ease and we have consent...real consent.

A great deal more care needs to be paid to the psychological effects of adults' actions - directly and indirectly - on children.

Your thinking is sound. LTLTR

[Hope67]

Hi LTLTR,

Thank you so much for your reply - I found it really helpful to hear what you said, and especially about the issues of 'consent' - thank you.

Hope 

[Blueberry]

    I complained and they laughed at me and called me a prude etc.  Said I wasn't normal. By their standards I wasn't.  But they had their views,  and I had to accept them.  That was abusive to me, ....

In slightly different contexts, but body-related I was laughed at too and called a prude, and just not taken seriously.
So thanks for posting, Libby, it's validating for me too.

[Blueberry]

Personally, I ask my children for their permission before I change them, bathe them, even feed them. If it needs to be done, we will discuss it, I will put their minds at ease and we have consent...real consent.

Wow, this is so different from how I was brought up! M and F, but especially M, view children as possessions, and possessions don't need to give consent of course.

I consider various that was done to me as CSA, though it was a bit subtle, or at least some people see it that way.

[Kat]

This line of discussion reminds me of Alice Miller's book Drama of the Gifted Child.  It doesn't have anything to do with kids who do well academically or who are talented in some way.  By gifted she is referring children (like us) who learned how to survive abusive childhoods.  It's been a long time since I read it, but I recall that it helped me immensely in learning how to parent.  I think if everyone would read her work and put her words into action we'd be a lot closer to world peace. 

[Andyman73]

Hi Andy,
I am assuming the book is going to be reasonably heavy going to read, but also hopefully enlightening - I think it will be useful to me - I read some of the reviews.  I realised that it had sparked a little controversy - but I also suspect that some people may have responded more to the 'title' than having actually read it - and I would like to read it and then think about how much I can relate to it.  I am pleased that you recommend it, and thanks for pointing me in that direction.
Hope 

Hi Hope,
It may well be, but I hope you can handle it. You deserve to learn a bit of something that sets your mind at ease, even if just a tiny bit.  Yeah, that title sure gives some folks the fits. That's actually what caught my eye. So, to me, it was a good thing. I will always try to point you towards the light, any chance I get, my dearest friend. 

[Hope67]

Hi Kat,
I have also read Alice Miller's book 'The Drama of the Gifted Child' - and I agree with you that it's a really great book - I've also not read it for some time, might look it out again and re-read at some point.  I found it interesting later to learn that her own son had written a book and that he had spoken about her parenting of him, and that he'd had difficulties - but I've not read his book, so can't say more than that.  But I have read about 3 of Alice Miller's books and found them all to be really useful and validating of my experience.

Hi Andy,
I have finished Dr Susan Clancy's book now - and I wrote something about it in the 'Books' section of the forum - I am glad I read it - thank you again for your recommendation of it - it was validating at many levels, but it also raised some queries in my mind, and also brought up some unresolved issues - but I would have expected that - and I think I'm ok - i.e. it's made me feel stronger in some ways for having read it.  So that's a good outcome!  But I felt quite 'rocked' for a couple of days - and my night-times were more disturbed again.  But nothing like they used to be a few years back.  I am definitely improving.

Hope 

[Andyman73]

Hi Hope,
I know I've been away..I was expecting to feel free to come here more often. Well, the exact opposite is my reality. It's been so much harder to come here and to the other online community I belong to. Being away from her as greatly reduced the effects of just being near her, no more walking on eggshells and such. But that makes room for everything else to come front. I never realized that living with her was taking so much time and energy and focus that everything else was sorta pushed to the back.

I'm glad you read Dr. Clancy's book. It gave me questions too. Also answered some I didn't even know I had. I agree, so many were caught off guard by the title. I think maybe they thought she was trying to downplay the effects of those newsworthy traumas.  As you learned, that was not her position at all.  It made so much sense why so many victims keep quiet for so long.  Much of it was incredibly eye opening for me. I really had no idea how and why I did or didn't do or say, or why I did.  Also helped explain a bit, why my parents denied my claims, saying I told too many stories and they were just too incredible to believe.  And I learned how and why it traumatized me as well.

I think I will read that other book, "The Drama of the Gifted Child". I am about as far from gifted as you possibly could be, but from what I've seen here, maybe I could gain some insight from it. 
Andy

[Hope67]

Hi Andyman,
I am really glad to see you back here - it's good to see you!  You have been missed, for definite!   

Glad you're out the other side, in terms of separated from your ex - and I know you said it's been very hard to find the time to get back here - as there is so much going on for you.  I hope very much that you are ok.

I have read the book 'The Drama of the Gifted Child' - it was very good.  It's by Alice Miller isn't it - I've read a few of her books, and also visited her website - I know she's died, but I think the website is still there, with lots of things written there about her work and how much it has helped people.    Although I think her relationship with her own son is one where he has quite different thoughts and feelings about her, than perhaps she gave credit to - I don't want to be horrible saying that, I just was surprised that he had written too - and his account is interesting to read.  Different perspectives of people across generations, I think it's good to read each person's viewpoint - as it can be different, and it doesn't make one right and the other wrong.

I am waffling now.  Sorry.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is I'm glad to see you, and I hope you are ok.

Hope 

[Blueberry]

Hope, I don't see you waffling. Even if you were, it's your Journal, so feel free.

I'll join you and welcome Andy back!  to you both.

[Andyman73]

Hope, you never have to apologize for waffling or getting off track of the conversation..not to me, anyway.
Glad to see you too. 

Blueberry    Thank you

[Hope67]

Thanks Blueberry & Andy - meant to say that before now. 

Hope 

[Andyman73]

You so very very much welcome, Hopes, big and little.