Verbal Vomit Receptacle

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VeryFoggy

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Verbal Vomit Receptacle
« on: January 24, 2015, 03:10:11 PM »
I have never posted here.  I normally post in OOTF on Unchosen and that has been some serious work    But it seems like now that I am OOTF I am having so many troubles in so many other parts of my life.  I feel today surrounded by N’s with nowhere to turn and everything, everything is just triggering, triggering and there is just no peace to be had.  So I went NC with an NPD Unchosen, but it seems that was only the tip of the iceberg.  It feels like many more N’s are lurking, eager to take the place of the Unchosen NPD that I am NC with.

This is going to sound silly to so many of you, but I don’t know where else to post.  I went to get my hair done a couple of days ago.  My hairdresser is definitely codependent, but is finally getting a divorce. She rents space in her salon to others who have a clientele.  She calls this new coworker woman in, and says something very dramatic to her to set her off.  In hindsight, it’s almost like she’s showcasing this woman, wants me and my sister (we get our hair done together every 6 weeks) to see how crazy this woman is.  The woman does not disappoint.  She comes into the space and starts ranting and raving about how great she is for taking care of a nephew’s friend and what she did for him, and how awful the kid’s parents are, and how ignored she felt by the kid’s grandparents and how everyone took advantage of her by not keeping her in the loop and not telling her that they were buying him a bus pass, and how she was so upset because she did not know if they’d given him money for food, or she was going to have to make him lunch, and how wonderful she was to take him to the bus and put him on it.  On, and on, and on. 

This woman was standing, I was sitting and she kept looking at me trying to make eye contact with me the whole time she was talking and I refused to do so. I just would not look at her.  I guess I was hoping that if she saw a total stranger ignore her, then she would get the point her story was not welcome and I did not want to hear it.  But it did not work.  But it REALLY upset me and triggered me badly. It was my Ndad all over again ranting and ranting and raving and looking for approval and appreciation and just sucking the air out of the room, just draining everyone emotionally.

How am I supposed to handle that?  I seriously considered getting up and just walking out. Not saying a word, just walking out.  Later when I was in the chair and trapped getting color put on she came back in again and told another story of how great and awesome she was, and I was just sick. I did not know what to do or how to make it stop. I couldn’t stand it, but I was trapped.  In the chair. So I sat quietly looking down and waiting for her to finish.  With my stomach churning.

Then last night a showdown with my room mate. My room mate came into the smoking room and she asked if she could watch the game on TV, and I was reading but I said yes. And I was a bit nervous about it. But I said okay.  And it starts inevitably.  The cursing, the yelling at the TV.  I am reading, and with difficulty managing to concentrate but I am struggling.  I am losing my control.  I get up several times and go walk around inside the house, and do deep breathing like the book said to do. But I come back out to MY smoking room because I want to smoke and read my book and it is on my PC and my PC is hooked up in the smoking room. But, I feel violated, and stepped on and disregarded. It’s a combination of the loudness and the language.  But I am okay to hang on, until she starts talking to me.  I am reading and processing possibly being sexually abused and digging deeply and painfully into my memories.  And then she says something and I ask “Are you talking to me?”  She says yes, I want you to look at this guy on the TV, look at him, the short one on the right.”  I said “B that guy has no meaning to me I am not listening and I am busy, I am reading a book.”  She says insisting now, “Just look at him, this is what my nephew J could be doing if he got into the right sports market.” I blew. I said, ”You wanted to watch TV, and that was fine with me, but I wanted to read my book.  Asking me to look at this guy on TV is the same as if I insisted you come over here and start reading my book. Do you want to read my book?”  She knew something was wrong at that point and apologized.  Then I said, “I am happy to share the room with you, but I do not care to pay attention to the TV right now.  I dealing with some deep stuff and I am really going through some stuff right now.”  She says, “Well that’s all you have to say, that you don’t feel like talking.”  Then she adds “If you need somebody or some help let me know.”

And that’s it.  Now I am furious, I am so angry because in some weird way I feel like she made me mad, and made me talk sharply to her, which is NOT true. And it’s on for me.  The night is ruined. She changes the channel, turns down the volume and settles down to a much lower volume of talking to herself. And I try to ask about American Idol to try a bit to make up. Then go to bed with some fiction to read, and end up getting up and taking melatonin, then taking Nyquil, and then smoking a cigarette on the deck outside alone, and then reading my book some more, to try to knock myself out. But I am roiling.

And wake up this morning in a full blown CPTSD flashback, with inner critic chatter, incessant chatter in my head, and even before I get up I am yelling STOP in my mind to the chatter.

So my point is, that I am getting these triggers all of the time from my roommate. She is so abrasive, and so loud, and so unhappy and so angry with the world. And she uses profanity a lot at max volume. She talks to herself non stop and it is difficult to tell when she is actually talking to me and not just herself. She is an alcoholic and occasionally abuses pills in combination with the alcohol, and can be so obnoxious that I end up confronting her the next day.  The talk always starts, “What do you remember about last night.” Answer, “Nothing” It is nerve wracking to live with her.  And even a loud mouth stranger just ratchets up my anxiety level to the point I want to run, just run.

And I don’t know what to do.  I feel like I am just ruined, not fit for human companionship anymore, because I find it hard to get along with these aggressive type people for more than an hour or so.  But, the fact is neither of these women abused me for years.  But their small boundary invasions feel like an army marched into my soul and started taking over and I don’t know how to handle it.

My reaction seems, feels inappropriate. And I feel like a bad person because there does not seem to be room for me and them in my life. I just cannot tolerate the behavior, and that feels like I am the wrong one, and the bad one.  And if I was a good enough person I could get along with them. But I just get angry instead and feel violated.

And over the top anxious and self critical and I need some advice. Should I be able to get along with my room mate no matter what? How do I handle a stranger treating me like a public verbal vomit receptacle? A place where it is okay if she regurgitates? And same for the roommate really.  Sometimes it feels like she is just vomiting all over me and I can’t take it and I feel like I should be able to take it. I feel like a normal person would be able to tolerate it.

And I just vomited all over you.  Sorry, I guess stuff does roll downhill.

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mourningdove

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Re: Verbal Vomit Receptacle
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2015, 05:31:24 PM »
Hi VeryFoggy  :wave:

I'm new here too, and incidently, "very foggy" as well!

I do not think the way you feel makes you a bad person. And I don't think it would make you a good person if you could tolerate someone who you felt was violating your space, because that would mean abandoning how you feel. It sounds like your roommate is self medicating whatever pain she has in her own life, and unfortunately, that means that she's also possibly numb to the effect she has on others. :(

It's healthy to feel angry if you feel like someone is violating your space. I know that if I had been in that position - and I often am in a similar position - I would be furious. If you feel that you acted too aggressively in response, then you could try to address that with your RM if it continues to bother you, or just try to change it up next time a similar situation happens. I realize that might be easier said than done - at least it would be for me. It sounds like she toned it down somewhat after you said something, so that's a good sign.

But I don't think it makes you ruined that you have a hard time around people like that. Not at all. You ARE fit for human companionship!  :yes:

And I did not feel vomited on, reading your post. Not in the slightest. I could have written it.



« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 05:50:37 PM by mourningdove »

Re: Verbal Vomit Receptacle
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2015, 06:57:02 PM »
Same here. It was all so familiar. In fact, I'd take bets that this is how many of us would feel like.

I second what mourningdove said. Finding your roommate grating on your nerves doesn't make you a bad person. I'm in my mid-fourties, I've been married for over a dozen years and I've got two kids who I love to bits, and sometimes they all just drive me up the wall. It's life. Even lovely people you're fond of can turn your hair prematurely grey sometimes. No one ever gets along with anyone no matter what.

Also, do you think you could maybe be an introvert, and/or highly sensitive? Introverts need a quiet, peaceful, "alone" space where they can recharge their batteries. It sounds like you don't have that at all. My husband's an introvert (an ISTP), and when he has to constantly be around people - especially around drama-inducing loud unpredictable people - at the end of the day, his nerves are in shreds and he goes HISSSS at the slightest provocation. It's not because he's grumpy in general. He's just out of energy. He generally likes people. If he has enough peace-and-quiet alone time, he gets along well with most people, even difficult ones. If he hasn't, he doesn't.

Also, he's grown up in close proximity to a narcissist, and he HAAATES word vomiters. The reason is, he never got to cut those word-vomits short, not even kindly. If that person was in a mood to hold court, everyone else had better dance attendance on her OR ELSE.

Now, maybe I'm reading too much into this. But you seem to have a similar resentment against word-vomiters that he has - that same sense that they're pressuring him and insisting on talking, in spite of the fact that it's so very clear that it's not wanted. Like it's an act of force. A violation of clear boundaries. When the truth of the matter is, he's been stewing quietly in his own resentment without actually making it clear what he wants. Not that I'm blaming him. It's probably an echo of what life was like when he was a kid: there simply WAS NO WAY of telling that person what HE wanted. What he wanted didn't matter. If she wants something, by Jove she MUST get her way OR ELSE. No wonder he hasn't got much of a habit of interrupting word-vomiters.

There's a third thing you seem to have in common (again, I might be reading too much into this, and I apologize in advance if I do): he tends to not take enough alone-time. It's like: if people want him to be around, if they want him to listen, he doesn't feel he has a choice. It's like he's got a constant sense of obligation and pressure, a constant sense of "how could I even say no?" He's getting better at it now, but it's a deep-seated thing with him.

So that's why I'm wondering: your feelings about those two incidents - do you think they could emotional flashbacks? You seem to have some very intense feelings, and that sense of powerlessness, of being trapped and cornered, that sounds a bit flashbacky to me. In any case, I hope you're alright now, and that life is treating you kindly.  :hug:
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 07:03:14 PM by schrödinger's cat »

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marycontrary

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Re: Verbal Vomit Receptacle
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2015, 12:00:36 AM »
Oh man, we are such cosmic twins, amigo. I have act myself this exact same questions.

He you are, healing, and you are realizing how much of your feeling and preferences has been stuffed down. Correct or no? I am breaking up with my boyfriend because he complains all the time, and I have validated and try to show compassion and set boundaries, but it never worked. Good man, but he irritate me to no end and triggers me.

There are a LOT of wounded people. Many people are are not safe, even if it is unintentional. I can't be around people who have temper problems, or just poor decision strategies.

Maybe you are just raising your standards? I have had to break off from really irritating, triggering relationships. I have a number of good relationships that are not triggering. This are higher quality relationships in general.

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Kizzie

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Re: Verbal Vomit Receptacle
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2015, 12:46:19 AM »
Same here Very Foggy - I got to a a point where I could not take people like your roommate anymore -  for even an hour.  I once quit a job three days in because my new boss had me fish a banana peel out of the garbage and walked me and it to a can in the lunchroom because it would smell (never mind that the office trash was emptied nightly).  That was simply the last straw in my "death by a thousand cuts" life.  I was fast approaching a thousand cuts and had to choose between me and the dysfunctional and abusive folks out there.  I chose me.

Maybe something similar is underway in you?  Part of recovery for many of us is distancing ourselves from PD/abusive behaviour so that we can focus on ourselves.  As you know only too well from OOTF, PD's don't allow that and we are trained to feel shame and fear when we don't meet their needs.  And even if people aren't PD, if their behaviour is PD-like it can have the same effect on us.

I do hope your EF subsides and that you can accept that you truly deserve to create safe, quiet PD (or PD-like) free spaces for yourself.  :hug:




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VeryFoggy

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Re: Verbal Vomit Receptacle
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2015, 05:44:48 AM »
Thank you all so much for understanding.  I really had it bad today.  It was like a full blown anxiety attack that lasted from 7 a.m. until about 3 p.m. It sucked. But I cleaned 17 seven ft. tall windows, did 30 push ups and then took my dogs ALONE for a two mile walk and felt MUCH better.

I still have not explained or apologized for my behavior to my roommate.  I did tell her after cleaning the windows that I was having an anxiety attack, and that it was getting better, but that I felt more physical exertion was needed to work it off.  She offered me a Xanax.  Which I declined.

This has not happened to me since May of last year. But I realized I have been doing a couple things that led to it.  I was stuffing.  My roommate moved in 9/6 last year. And she is a handful.  And of course! I thought I could help her!  Well slowly it seems she has been taking over my household and all of the sudden I wake up and realize * has been going on. I saw it, yes I saw it, but I did not do a lot. Gentle hints, careful reminders. Thinking she will get it.

So tonight I do not feel bad in the least what I said to her last night.  She asked for it. She had been asked numerous times to please not yell and scream or play loud music. But she just does what she wants.  So that is not my fault. Not my stuff. So today I feel like she deserved snapping at. And what I said was not terrible. Because when I said “what if I insisted you come read my book, would you want to?”  She said no.  So I gave her a clear cut reasonable comparison to look at. Something that if she is rational she could say “okay I get it.”

Mourningdove – Yes she is in terrible emotional pain but won’t do anything about it except drink herself to death and pop pills.  I did think I could help her, but I can’t, and I accept that. She drinks about a fifth a night.  Not kidding and combines it with Xanax and Valium on a regular basis.  It is appalling.

Schrodingerscat _ Yes I am an ISTJ.  Whatever that means I forget. But I do like and have a LOT of time to myself.  I am retired, but living with someone I am not in love with is wearing me down. I love her and I care about her, but I am not willing to sacrifice me or my family for her. Which is what it feels like she wants.  Because she’s always had that. Her family did do that for her.  But yes, that insistence on ignoring us and doing whatever the * she wants just because she wants to even though she’s been told it is not acceptable is NOT okay. I think THAT is why I had the melt down.  She has been told it not okay to use loud voices in the sunroom, it is not okay to play music loud outside, every word travels, sound carries here, so keep it down. She was told and told again when she first moved in.  In my anxiety, I forgot that.  But I recalled it this evening.  And yes I was most definitely having a flashback.  I had been reading Pete Walker’s CPTSD book and I was flashing big time.

Marycontrary – Yes, I was stuffing for sure and forgetting what I had already asked her to do. I think I have a solution tonight.  She is not here forever just until she decides what to do.  But I am giving her an ultimatum of either abide by house rules or we cannot be roomies.  It’s my house. That’s why I felt so bad!  Kicking this poor homeless woman out is just plain darn mean!  But she does have options and money and I was just a place that had space and we thought it would work.

Kizzie – Yes it is disheartening to me to find so MANY PD like people in the world.  It’s only 10% but my God!  Why does the whole 10% have to be in my world? My son in law, my son (who seems to be getting better with a mish mash of my attempts to use John Gray Men Are From Mars and OOTF techniques) and my NPDdad of course, and now this stranger at the hair salon and my roommate.  It’s just exhausting! I really have only ONE friend who I think is totally not PD, and some days I have my doubts about him. But thank God he calls me every day.  Today he called me 3 times, and we talked and it helped. He just listens and validates me.  Which then makes me think I am PD but that’s another story.

Anyway here is my very long solution, but I have written my roomie a letter which I will give to her tomorrow when she is sober.

Dear B,

I am writing you a Feeling Letter.  I am very distressed about some things that have been going on with you, and with me, and with us lately, and this is John Gray’s format for dealing with such.  So I will be covering Anger, Sadness, Fear, What I Am Sorry About, What I Understand, What I Hope For and Want, and What I Appreciate About You. So without further ado:

What I Am Angry About
I am angry that you drink too much, and then get loud and obnoxious, and use obscenities at max decibel volume. I am angry that when you do that I feel invisible, and like I do not matter or count, that my feelings simply do not matter. I am angry that you don’t seem to understand that it is not okay with me, despite me telling you over and over since you moved in that the neighbors can hear everything you say, and telling you that I have to live here, and get along with these people, indefinitely after you move out, and that loud noises are not okay, and you still do it.  It is distressing to me that you do not seem to care about me, my family, or my neighbors, and that loud talking and yelling obscenities in my sunroom or my backyard is simply not okay.  I have told you about sound repeatedly since you moved in, about keeping the sound down, and radio volume down, and how sound travels, and translation: so does screaming “*” at the top of your lungs.  I am angry that I have to spell it out for you. So, screaming and loud talking and yelling obscenities is NOT okay. I am angry that you get T-rashed on a regular basis, and so T-rashed that you do not seem to care who you hurt, or insult when you get that way. And, I am angry that despite all of our talks about not bossing little J around, you still get T-rashed, and you still do it.

What I Am Sad About
I am sad that I do not feel like you can hear me.  I am sad that despite my talks about loud sounds, and verbal clues, and hints like ignoring you, or not talking to you, you still act this way.  I am sad that it doesn’t seem to matter what I say or do, you do it anyway.  I am sad that despite all of our talks about little J you still boss him around, like we never talked about it.  I am sad that you probably don’t remember half of what I have said.  I am sad you drink and drug so much that you probably don’t remember about half of your life. But I do, and it is not pretty, and it is very sad. I am sad that you will not get some professional help. I am sad that it appears you are * bent on killing my friend, and trying to kill our relationship while you are at it on your way down and out. I am sad that it is starting to hurt me a lot. So I am sad I cannot help you. I really wanted to, and not being able to makes me very sad.

What I Am Afraid Of
I am afraid to tell you these things, as I don’t want to hurt you.  But I am more afraid of you hurting me, and hurting J, and hurting little J so I am going to say them. I am more afraid of you killing yourself if I don’t say them.  I am afraid that it won’t matter what I say, you are still not going to stop. I am afraid that I have already said so much, and it did not matter, so I am afraid it won’t matter this time either. I am afraid you will not get some professional help, and I am afraid you are going to die way younger than you should have.

What I Am Sorry For
I am sorry I cannot seem to communicate effectively to you how serious I am about these two things: noise and little J.  I am sorry I have to get in your face about it with this letter.  I am sorry all my talks about sound, and hints and clues did not work, or convey how serious I am about it.  I am sorry I cannot seem to help you or have any impact on you.  I am sorry you do not seem to be finding anything to hold on to.  I am sorry you do not seem interested in getting some help. I am sorry I feel so helpless to help you. I am sorry it does not seem like there is anything I can do to help. I am sorry I do not know what to do to help you.

What I Understand
I understand that you are going through *.  I understand that you feel like you have to drink and drug to drown your pain. But I also understand that living that way does not work for me. I do understand your pain, but I also understand if you will not help yourself there is nothing I can do. I understand that if you will not abide by the house rules then we cannot live together. I understand that it is hard to live in a house where you are not in charge. I understand it is hard to not know where or what you will do next.  I understand you need time to make a good decision.  I understand you would like T to be finished with school before you have to make that decision. I understand your life is in a state of flux and it is very stressful.  But I understand that it is not my job to fix it.  I understand all I can do is help and support you. But I also understand that I am not going to have another anxiety attack because of you disregarding the house rules. I understand that I am not going to disregard myself and my needs for a peaceful calm home, just so that you can drink and drug and be obnoxious. I understand that you will think I am judging you, but I am not, I am trying to care about all of us, and do what is best for all of us.  I understand you may think I am a party pooper, and just not very much fun. But I also understand that if you keep this up, you are not going to be around much longer to think any of those things about me.

What I Hope For And What I Want
I want you to respect the house rules and stop yelling and screaming and loud talking outside, and in the sunroom.  I want you to stop giving little J directives. I want you to come to big J or to me if you want to see a change in little J’s behavior and let us take care of it.  I do want you take action if you see little J’s safety is in danger, but that is all.  I want you to get help with your problems.  I want you to get counseling for your grief, and help with your addictions, or at least start trying to help yourself, do some self help.  I want you to be happy.  I want to be happy.  I want big J to be happy.  I want little J to be happy. I want us to work things out and I want you to be able to stay here as long as you need to. I hope we can work things out so that all of us can be happy. I want you to find purpose and meaning in your life.  I want you to feel needed and safe and happy. And I want the same for myself and my family. I want to work this out for everyone. Including you, but I am going to need your help.  I cannot do this on my own.

What I Appreciate About You
This list could get quite long.  I appreciate that you take care of your things and your bathroom and I do not have to worry about it.  I appreciate all of your wonderful cooking and things I have learned from you.  I appreciate your friendship and having a friend to talk to.  I appreciate the care you take with parking and always being concerned about little J and I being able to get him to school on time.  I appreciate you respecting my solar power program and taking the time to understand how it works and why I do the things around here the way I do.  I appreciate being similar in temperament about having a cold room to sleep in.  I appreciate your generous sharing nature, and how much you try to share with us – books, food, knowledge.  I appreciate you taking me in for Thanksgiving.  I appreciate all of the wonderful new experiences I have had with you – vacations and travel and new sights and new scenery. I appreciate how you clean up SO MUCH that is not your responsibility, and you do it with a light and happy heart. I appreciate how much of the time you do keep us, the family as a whole in mind, and try to do what is best for all of us. I appreciate how much you like to travel, and how it either gives us a break from each other, or something new to learn together.  I appreciate that you have your own interests and friends and I am not caretaking you.  I appreciate your independence, and your ability to take care of yourself much of the time. I appreciate you driving me around while I was blind, and taking me and little J where we needed to go.

I do appreciate you very much B, and I hope so very much that we can make a couple of changes and things will be fine.  Fine for all of us. But, it is going to have to be fine for all of us, or it is not going to work. This is why the other night I would not give you a straight answer about you staying on here.  We have got to work this out first before I can make that agreement.  I cannot go on as we have been any longer. And if you simply cannot agree, then we will need to part, but it will be as loving friends who simply agree to disagree.

Please think on this, and do know that I am well aware there may be things that you are unhappy about as well, and I am open to hearing your grievances too.  This is a two way street. There are a lot of wishes and hopes and dreams in this letter.  But two things are simply not negotiable.  The noise and the little J. The rest is up to you, your decision, and ultimately not my business. They are just my wishes for you, as your friend who cares about you.

Love from your friend

Very Foggy

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Kizzie

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Re: Verbal Vomit Receptacle
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2015, 06:16:11 PM »
Wow, just wow Very Foggy  :applause:  (I think you are going to have to choose a new name for the forum :yes:)

Response from U-Ghost: Verbal Vomit Receptacle *possible trigger alert*
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2015, 08:06:37 PM »
Read over your posts; those of us with CPTSD have lots of triggers and different needs to keep ourselves at peace in order to stay sane.
Due to my own issues generated from CPTSD, social contacts can be volatile.  First, I have to really assess if its 'my' problem with others (I'm bringing the static) or the other person/s are genuinely annoying, rude, etc.  Since I have an aversion to noises like babies crying, people griping about their lives, annoying habits...I have to take evasive, corrective measures to negate 'run-ins' with others.  If I get my hair cut, I find a salon where it's just me in the room; listening to everyday gossip nonsense would drive me crazy.  There's plenty of salons & spas that would work with you to have a peaceful experience.  For living space, I live by myself.  There's no way I'd tolerate the habits of another person; they'd have to put up with 'my' issues as well, which isn't fair to them.  I know I'd be difficult to live with, and the risk of taking my stress out on another person would occur. 
As I'm struggling with the highs/lows of barely managing my own symptoms, I have to practice 'mindfulness' that I need to instill habits to keep social run-ins to a bare minimum, and that the possibility exists that I'm projecting my issues onto someone else and escalating things.  Case in point, I went to see a movie in a public theater a few days ago.  Two people sat behind me, chatting & eating popcorn so loud, it was driving me nuts.  So, were they behaving like everyone else in the theater? Yes. So, instead of turning around and ripping them a new one and escalating the situation into a confrontational scene, I saw some remote, quiet seats 7 rows down and moved.  They didn't get verbally ripped & I didn't get ejected from the theater.
Some aspects of social interactions are very easy for most people to handle.  Those of us with CPSTD have a wide variety of difficulties with the human race.  Many of my military combat friends greatly suffer the same; so I'm trying to start a veteran only fishing network where I live...so we can go find quiet, peaceful areas to decompress & begin small steps to practice rebuilding a normal life.  When I see what they endure every day...scanning rooftops, streets, alleys, crowds for terrorists...in addition to social difficulties, I realize that my own challenges aren't nearly as bad as theirs. Which doesn't make mine any less difficult, but gives me a larger perspective that I am fortunate to not have war-time images permanently stuck in my head.  My New Years Eve was spent keeping a fellow vet from running off into the woods after hearing fireworks at midnight, which he took for artillery being lobbed.
Best prevention I can do is find ways to keep me mellow most of the time is venturing out into the woods, mountains, trails, etc. 

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C.

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Re: Verbal Vomit Receptacle
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2015, 09:38:15 PM »
As if the world needs to help me understand all of this, it really is foggy outside my front door today!

Your experience sounds so similar to so many realities here, including my own.  When people encroach on boundaries the normal response is anger.  Many of us who spent our lives being abused were "taught" to feel bad or guilty for setting boundaries, so we didn't and we survived, sometimes barely, thinking that was life and normal.  And on top of it all feeling obligated to "help" those who "vomited verbally" by listening to them.  My understanding from Pete Walker's book on CPTSD where he calls this "fawning."  It's a skill we needed to be "safe" in an unhealthy environment.  Both of my parents seem to think I'm I sounding board for their woes and even paranoid delusions (my dad "hates" people from different political or religious perspectives and will talk about how they should die or be "bombed", my mom complains about my dad...).  So we  the environment b/c we thought it was normal and ok.  "Fawning" was right.  Then the awareness comes and with it what seemed ok before now isn't.

These people's verbal unhappiness could be appropriate with a therapist, an interested friend or family?, a forum?, but they clearly do not read or care about how people around them feel.  Body language and words say a lot.  They chose to ignore the feelings of those around them and unload neither truly relieving themselves and clearly harming those around them.

I have a hairdresser who I quit seeing b/c of exactly what you described.  I felt unhappy, angry, irritated and couldn't even really name why.  It sounds like you've done a lot of work to make yourself aware of "why."  Personally I simply quit the hair dresser since I have control over that relationship. 

When I had an aggressive roommate I found that I needed to go to coffee shops, the park, my car, my bedroom, etc. to read, journal or do meaningful internal work.  Fortunately I was able to change my roommate situation and that helped a great deal.

Something that I was surprised to learn was that my adult daughter who I wanted around me didn't visit b/c she noticed the tension/aggression of my roommate and didn't want to be around it.  After moving she and I have grown closer and spent more time together!;)

And finally, thank you for posting your challenge here.  It is normal and ok to feel anger.  This is such a healthy forum and "place" for you to process your challenge.  I don't feel "put upon" by your struggles.  In contrast, I think I and many others feel validated.  It's healthy for us and you as we learn together how to function in this world with the awareness, the triggers, and the tools necessary for the meaningful lives you and I deserve.

I look forward to future posts and threads of conversation here with you and other forum members.  Thank you.

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VeryFoggy

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Re: Verbal Vomit Receptacle
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2015, 12:46:51 AM »
Thank you all so much for your posts and encouragement.  It means a lot to know other people have felt this way.  I was able to "get on top of" my anxiety yesterday and write the letter.  But I woke up in the exact same anxious condition today, and so I have not yet been able to actually give it to her.

The anxiety was simply crushing my chest like a fist around my heart squeezing, and I was so scared I knew I could not have the adult conversation I needed to even to just give her the letter.  I did more push ups, took another walk and it's greatly subsided.  I feel like a grown up now instead of a petrified child who is scared to death. I hope this goes away soon because it is a very unpleasant sensation physically, and I do feel childlike terror emotionally. I haven't said much at all to her today due to this anxiety.

Maybe tomorrow.  I just want to wake up normal and calm. In my adult mind and emotions.

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marycontrary

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Re: Verbal Vomit Receptacle
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2015, 02:05:09 AM »
OK...this is what I want you to put on you tablet or phone and take to be with you.
Listen to Dharma talks by Ajahn Brahm until you go to sleep.

Waking up with panic, put on another till you go to sleep....do this over and over...

I am not religious, but I best I have listened to 8,000 dharma talks, and they help divert attention greatly. And it is FREE.

It works.

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VeryFoggy

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Re: Verbal Vomit Receptacle
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2015, 01:28:13 AM »
Marycontrary - I downloaded an App from the app store, but there were no meditations?  If you would give me some more information I am interested.  Thank you very much!

I (Finally!) gave my roommate the letter.  It took great courage, though I did not tell her that.  Just me, I told me that I was very brave to try to take care of me and my family.  I knew it was going to hurt no matter how gently said. And it did.  And she agreed to do the two specific things I asked for, which was no screaming outdoors or in the sunroom, and no more directives to the grandson.  Though she gave many logical arguments why she still needed to give him directives, and I finally conceded as long as she wasn't drinking she could give him some guidance.

As for her grievances, they were many. Which is why I had to get my adult self back before we talked. I knew there would be blowback.  And for most of them, I simply said there was not anything I was willing or able to do anything about.

She complained how dirty the house is. Which is true.  It is picked up to a fault, (I'm a bit OCD about clutter) and all laundry, dishes and counters, sinks and toilets are clean and clear. But there are dusty floors, and tables. She wanted to hire a cleaning service. No!  I want no obligations that she pays for! I did agree to set up a schedule for myself to clean more often. But she wanted chandeliers 20 feet off the floor cleaned, (they are not dirty) I dust them once a year, ceiling fans, light fixtures, ditto. I declined, said I would handle it.  Then she wanted the windows washed inside and out. I can't fathom why, but assume it is so I am obligated in some way so I declined again. They are fine, I am happy. I do regularly often (at least once a month) clean 20 windows myself, but she's talking about the 2nd story bedrooms, where blinds are closed most of the time.  No, doesn't need it until the house is up for sale which it is not.

Then it got weird. 

Such as disliking my son sleeping on the couch every night.  He has reasons and they are mental, which I tried to explain, but then she simply wanted me to fix him and I declined.  He is 30.  If he wants to fix his problems then he will have to do it on his own.  But it may be irreparable damage.  He's overdosed 3 times.

And she disliked that my son and grandson do not do much around the house. Not her stuff.

And she disliked how I talk to my son sometimes and that she was embarrassed for him.  Not her stuff.

She said I was very negative and it was really bothering her.  You don't know me from Adam, so you have no way of knowing, but I am a very positive person.  I am happy most of the time, smiling, and kind, and a big believer in the power of positive thinking.  I pick my battles carefully. I am posting to get better not to get worse.  In any case that threw me. As my BF has often commented that my roommate is one of the most negative people he has ever met. I did not agree with her, I just said "Wow, that's interesting." But she is one of the most negative people I have ever met in my life, and it is draining emotionally to listen to woe is me, and I am f***** and the world is against me. Why do they accuse you of what they are doing?  Do they know?

Then she said I am superior acting, that I act as if I am superior to others "all the time".  And cited my forums, and reading a lot of John Gray material, then quoting the material as evidence of how I was acting superior. And she said that that it felt cult-like to her. Again my boyfriend talked me off that ledge.  He said an alcoholic does not want to hear about how well AA is working out for you.  Same with your forums and your books.  You are improving your life and yours is getting better and she does not want to hear it.

Oh, and the best part was that she said she thought I needed to deal with my Disorder.  That part I was actually able to laugh out loud at. I said, "I do not have a Disorder.  I have been traumatized by a Disordered person, but I do not have a Disorder. Sorry none of the criteria fits me."

So all I can figure is that it hurt to be reprimanded, and it was just lashing out grasping at straws, or she really is the NPD, I believe her to be.

In any case, it was a tough afternoon. I think I can expect better behavior for a short time, but ultimately I am not seeing a good ending to this story. I am not paranoid, and it really felt like she was seeking to regain some sort of control this afternoon, and that she was very frustrated when all she got was an agreement to clean the floors more often...
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 02:42:38 AM by VeryFoggy »

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C.

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Re: Verbal Vomit Receptacle
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2015, 03:08:42 AM »
Wow.  Congratulations on your follow through and posting here and processing with your BF.  Your roommate sounds toxic.  I wonder if she "projects" her own flaws and issues on to you.  Like the people who say I look tired, when really they're tired and is I ask they say "yes."  But she's not that self-aware.  Lots and lots of kudos for your efforts and steps.   :applause:

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marycontrary

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Re: Verbal Vomit Receptacle
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2015, 03:25:57 AM »
I would get rid of her...she appears to have no empathy. This will end up in bad, bad news....methinks.
Dharma Talks...here a good one to start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RrCjzi74BA

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VeryFoggy

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Re: Verbal Vomit Receptacle
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2015, 11:37:19 PM »
Marycontrary - I am interested why you say she has no empathy? I read through her responses again and could not see it, but I am usually quite blind to those closest to me.

I appreciate the link.  I have started listening and right away I can see he is QUITE calming and soothing to listen to.  Thank you!

C.  - Thanks for the support!  it means a lot!  I did wake up his morning with an epiphany of what she meant by being negative and acting superior. 

I think it is because our interests are so different and I often decline her invitations.  She is rabidly into professional sports, and takes it so seriously. She often invites me to bars or Super Bowl parties and usually I decline.  I just have no interest.  I like books, and music, and learning, and self help and spreadsheets.  Give me a spreadsheet to wrestle with any day of the week and I am in heaven.  I was an analyst before I retired. And I am introverted while she is wildly extroverted.

So I think that me saying no to her invitations makes me look negative to her, because I don't want to do the things she wants to do.  Then she probably takes it a step further, and believes I am a stuck up goody two shoes. So she simply cannot fathom that I just don't share her interests. So instead of appreciating my diversity, she perceives it as an attack on her choices, her decisions. 

This is just a guess but I decided to ultimately not approach her about it because I do not feel it would be productive. I felt it would be best to see if she says "I hope I did not hurt your feelings."  At that point I could say, "No it didn't because I don't feel that way about myself, but I can see why you may think that."  And then explain about the different interests and see she agrees.

And sadly after all of that drama of the letter, even though she was not drinking before I went to bed, she was incoherent and had probably taken some pills.  And when I got up this morning there was a significant amount of alcohol consumed after I went to bed.  It's just incredible to me that someone would drink when they already can't talk.  It is very sad and it is hard to look at. Painful even.