"we've moved on"

Started by Blueberry, January 12, 2018, 11:08:50 PM

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Blueberry

My sibs used to come up with "we've moved on" as in 'it's time you did too Blueberry'. Cognitively it's been clear for a long time that that's bogus. Today some truth floated in from somewhere: they haven't actually moved on much at all! They just think so. The only person in our family doing much moving on is: me. In some ways, both sibs are changing things. One does Medium Chill with M and F (I recognise that from OOTF pages), the other has somewhat better parenting skills than M and F did. OTOH he married someone quite similar to M.

But moving on from the past of our nuclear family? Not so much. Their treatment of me is the biggest indicator that they're not doing so. It's as if they're thinking that they're moving on solely by concentrating on their own families and kids and that I'm preventing them from doing so somehow by trying to get better treatment of myself in FOO. Meanwhile, they continue to speak patronisingly to me (when we still had contact), "explain" things as if only their viewpoint could be true, leap on to any spontaneous remark from me in case it 'hurts' F or leads to an outburst from M, while excusing M, F or one SIL from hurtful remarks made towards me because 'that's how they are'  :stars:

No, sorry, you haven't moved on much at all! You're saying that to try and protect yourselves from having to change!

Contessa

Spot on B, nothing to add.

If I have the misfortune to communicate with my family all I hear is a :blahblahblah:  :blahblahblah:  :blahblahblah: background buzz while thinking of more important constructive things.

radical

I'm in the midst of trying to get over a really painful situation.  It's not FOO but the dynamics of invalidation, of not being allowed to be heard, of being patronised, and of cruelty, harm, voicelessness and injustice, are almost identical.

On the other hand, over Christmas I had the uncanny experience of inclusion, belonging and validation from some members of my FOO.  I have to stress that this was not in relation to needing validation or of talking about any of the things that have hurt me.

In one conversation, my sib had some moving on of their own to do, and wanted to talk late one night.  I listened, but when I mentioned how I'd felt during the childhood events they raised, they promptly went to bed.  I suspect there is a lot of guilt there, guilt about the scapegoating, about how I was affected etc.  Regardless of why they left, there was an odd  kind of validation in that conversation.

The difference with that particular conversation, was my not needing anything, not feeling uncomfortable about the sudden departure, not even really thinking about it at the time.  I wish I could get to that place with the current situation that I can't stop ruminating  and hurting about.  But therein lies the problem; it would take the intervention of extremely unlikely and unforseeable circumstances unrelated to me, to effect any change, and it would be in response to self-interest not concern about how their actions have hurt me. 

It's useful to me, in the pain I'm feeling, to know that there is nothing I can do, just as with my family.  The feeling of threat lingers though I've left the situation, but there is no real threat beyond what I'm doing to myself by going over and over what happened, and seeking solutions that don't exist,imagining scenarios of vindication that won't happen.  I don't know how to let go, but I'm not beating myself up.  It's understandable to feel this way.

One thing I know for sure is that any influence I can ever have in any situation involving invalidation, won't  come from my need,  but via circumstances outside my control, and only with the barrier of my pain and need removed.

This is long and rambling as a reply, Blueberry.  I know how it hurts being in contact with anyone involved in scapegoating past or present, (or both, as is usually the case).  I know that there are circumstances that mean walking away and not looking back isn't a viable option.  I feel for you, being stuck with this, and if it is any consolation, I know that you have more integrity in your little finger than exists in rest your family combined.

Blueberry

Quote from: radical on January 13, 2018, 01:23:39 AM
I know that there are circumstances that mean walking away and not looking back isn't a viable option.  I feel for you, being stuck with this,

It's actually getting easier bit by bit, you know. I might just be able to walk someday and not look back. Not yet, but it may happen some time.

Quote from: radical on January 13, 2018, 01:23:39 AM
I know that you have more integrity in your little finger than exists in rest your family combined.

Thanks for this, wish we had High-Five!

There's more in your response I'd like to answer but maybe not tonight, getting sleepy and need to do some other stuff on computer.

Blueberry

Another variation on "we've moved on" is: "It's hard to really care", something which B1 often said in my and his teens and on into our twenties. I've only just realised yesterday and today how it's probably much easier not to care when you're the abuser rather than the tormented and oppressed younger sister.

He was abused too, by M, and man did he care about that! With his "It's hard to really care" he was not primarily negating my protests at his treatment of me (he had other methods for that) but just in general anything I spoke about, complained about.  When I quoted B1 telling me that SIL2 wouldn't remember even the next day what she'd done/said to me, my T said that's a perfect way to shut down any kind of family discussion. I guess "It's hard to really care" is another method of shut-down.

I had another realisation. Another woman in inpatient T with me many years ago was sexually abused by an older brother and spoke about how he had become her hero, she rode around with him on his motorbike (when she still lived at home with her parents). I couldn't understand how she could after something so 'terrible', but I've done something similar for a lot  longer: I looked up to B1 as a protector. Even last time I had major FOO contact, I hoped he might protect me from SIL2. Well he didn't. It probably sounds very naive but I've taken the time I've taken to make these connections.

There's that comparison thing again too. What?? Sexually abused by your B and he becomes your hero? (Not that I said that). But somehow didn't question self physically maltreated and psychologically/emotionally abused by older B and still deferring to him. Because the abuse didn't seem so bad (wasn't sexual), but even if it had been (e.g. M did that to me), I would undoubtedly have found some way to deny how bad that was too, somewhere in some non-verbalised part of my brain.

With this going on in my head/emotions as well as realisations on feeling responsible for people I shouldn't, it's no wonder I hardly made it out of bed today and the only thing I think 'worth' doing is eating. It's good I've just realised the connection. Might make sense to do some EFT or Screen Processing on some of this.

I wish I felt far enough along to say to FOO or even just think it: "I'm done with you!" But I'm not, I can't say it, there's still something hanging there emotionally. It's not about money, inheritance. It's emotional.

Three Roses

I relate to this pretty strongly. In my late teens and early twenties, I used to go places socially with my sibling. And now looking back I can't comprehend how I ever could have "forgotten" all the hurt and damage that he caused, without blaming my family for setting me up for that as well.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, our families set us up for putting ourselves in tricky situations, and they are a breeding ground for all sorts of dysfunction. We are the lucky ones, who see the dysfunction and are trying to change our lives. Through awareness, we can recover. Those who are blind to the dysfunction are doomed to repeat it.

Blueberry

#6
Well, I feel less alone and stupid and ashamed when you say you relate. I don't think you're stupid of course, so why myself? That FOO conditioning.

Quote from: Three Roses on February 19, 2018, 04:33:58 PM
Those who are blind to the dysfunction are doomed to repeat it.

You're correct there. One of B1's kids is already somewhat 'strange', disordered. B1 doesn't seem to realise a connection. Nor does anybody really in FOO. They all talk about it behind B1's back but that the kid could be suffering something different from me but due to the same causes?? No conception of that. I was incredibly sad at last catastrophic FOO Event when I realised how other kids reacted to B1's kid. They did a double-take. They sensed something was 'off'. Whereas in FOO it's mostly just kid being slagged off about behavioural issues. Yeah, how do you think they developed?? (Depending on FOO member it's due to B1's bad parenting skills, SIL1's bad parenting skills or kid being a * up). Sad as the situation is, it's not my responsibility and there's nothing I can do to cure it.

Correct in my case too, which is partly why my healing is taking so long. Just didn't want to see FOO for what or who they are. I thought I could get over a lot of the past and have a normal relationship with FOO. Ha Ha. Except it's not funny, it's sad  :'( . In the past I split things up into: hurts done to ICs, which were 'carried' by the ICs, and my functioning Adult persona, who could put ICs in their Inner Safe Places while in contact with FOO. So great was my need for a FOO. But of course it didn't work long-term, everything came tumbling down at some point. Cuz it's just an illusionary FOO, FOO in name only as my T puts it.

:hug: to you 3Roses

Blueberry

It's good for me to re-read here. I've read over on OOTF that when there isn't much FOO contact you can get to thinking you're strong enough to handle it, it couldn't ahve been that bad. But it was. No, Blueberry, not going back to splitting between ICs and Adult persona in order to have some FOO contact and more particularly FOO 'support' from a FOO in name only. No, not going back to expecting the ICs to carry the pain in their Inner Safe Places while Adult Blueberry sort of manages minor email or short snail mail contact.