Struggling with anxiety

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Kizzie

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Re: Struggling with anxiety
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2018, 12:59:41 AM »
Based on the name you chose to use at OOTS, you seem to be saying you want to feel hope and are have come here to find some.  Myself I do think the responses have been kind and warm and that members are trying to reach out and help. IMO that alone is reason to feel a degree of hope for humanity. This doesn't seem to be the case for you though so perhaps you could post a bit more about what you are looking for and perhaps members will be able to share experiences/feelings/etc that do resonate with you.

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hereforhope

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Re: Struggling with anxiety
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2018, 02:31:50 AM »
I'm very sorry. I struggle with controlling anger. I realise I'm wasting the freely given time and effort of people here. I promise that from now on I'll try my best to refrain from writing useless posts.

I definitely do not think like that about humanity and available help most of the time, but those thoughts often come when I get very, very angry, along with everything else I'm scared could be true. And every time it happen I can't, or just don't care, to remember when I didn't think like that. Saying that, I'm not excusing myself though, as I still let myself engage in an immature behavior. I need to grow up...

I've found a lot of hope here, but I realise I'm closed off to it, because I'm scared of caring about my life.

Sanmagic, Rainagain: thank you for your replies and very caring words. I'm sorry you also have these thoughts. When I calmed down I went to look for something positive about these questions, maybe some of these answers on Quora can give you something positive too? 

This question caught my eye with it's provocative tone. I think the first answer is very good. 
https://www.quora.com/Is-bullying-natural-selection-at-its-best
 
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 02:48:46 AM by hereforhope »

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sanmagic7

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Re: Struggling with anxiety
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2018, 11:43:35 AM »
hfh, i think that today's world is scary in general now.  i remember back in the 50's, the whole cold war thing going on.  that was also a scary time on a global scale.  still, tho we lived under that umbrella of fear, we simply kept on keeping on.  it's one of the things we do as humans.

the link you posted talked about natural selection as compared to survival of the fittest, and put them in two different categories.  i get it.  whatever might be going on in our world, i have no control over it.  i can only look to my little corner of it and do the best i can.

that's why i care about my life.   

i don't think you have to apologize or put yourself down in any way about what you posted.  i didn't think your posting was useless.  it was honest, full of pain, and grasping for something to hang onto.  i do hope that you let us in, even a little.  we all struggle at times, with big and little worries, big and little fears, but they're all valid.  so are yours.  so are you, whether you want to believe that or not.

we're here for you if you'll let us.  sending a warm hug to you, if that's ok.

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Blueberry

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Re: Struggling with anxiety
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2018, 04:33:48 PM »
Thanks for the link hereforhope, it's an interesting discussion. And validating for me that people can see something 'wrong' with Darwinism, which was quoted a lot in FOO.

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Kizzie

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Re: Struggling with anxiety
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2018, 07:14:43 PM »
Tks for explaining more HFH. I think it will help members to know more about what you are struggling with (fear of being hopeful). It also helps that you know you need to risk feeling some hope to lift up out of the deep despair you are feeling. 

I also struggle with despair (daily now that Donald Trump got into office in the US), and have to work at looking at both the positive and negative sides of humanity.  Complex PTSD diminishes faith and trust in others, we have to learn/relearn it. Unfortunately that takes work on our part.  I wish we had not been dealt these cards but there it is.  The good news in my experience is that it does pay off and I hope the same will be true for you. 

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Kizzie

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Re: Struggling with anxiety
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2018, 07:50:33 PM »
Here's an example of one of the things I do HFH, which is to actively look for evidence of the positive side of human beings.

I've been following a young Canadian woman facing brain cancer who started a campaign to inspire acts of kindness after she learned of her diagnosis.  It took off over the last year and a half as you can see from this site (see https://beccatoldmeto.ca/). Those who committed acts of kindness would tell others they had done so because "Becca Told Me To." 

Sadly Becca passed away this week, but she left behind such a wonderful, amazing legacy of hope and kindness that I find so inspiring (and in the context of this thread, reassuring).    Just wanted to share this.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 07:53:13 PM by Kizzie »

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hereforhope

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Re: Struggling with anxiety
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2018, 08:37:51 AM »
Thank you.

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ah

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Re: Struggling with anxiety
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2018, 07:10:14 PM »
Hereforhope,

To me, nothing you've written here has ever been useless. I hope you don't refrain from writing when you're feeling anxious, it's exactly what these forums are here for.
But I think for me, another huge benefit I get from OOTS is learning about cptsd. I've started noticing in the past few months that when I'm overwhelmed by intense anger, I'm in an emotional flashback. Maybe you are too?

Do you have Pete Walker's list for EF management? It helps me when I catch myself feeling completely overwhelmed by anger:

http://www.pete-walker.com/13StepsManageFlashbacks.htm

It's anything but easy, and I'm so sorry you have to go through these waves of anxiety.  :no:
I get them too, you're not alone. Something triggers my fear and all of a sudden I'm burning on the inside and it takes superhuman powers to stop it.

And this is just my two cents, based on my personal experience:

My FOO loved social darwinism and kept confusing it with evolution. I don't think they had the faintest I idea what evolution actually meant, they just warped and twisted and used it for their own means.
Your mention that your F's views were Nazi rang very true and close to home for me. That's exactly what it felt like growing up in my FOO, and it left me with a deep confusion: I learned that Nazi views are "normal". But they're not. We know they're not, and we know social darwinism is... a bit flawed  :bigwink:

Also,
Maybe people get too much credit for being intentionally, purposefully mean and not enough for being, well... just plain selfish, blind and stupid. We're probably not as wise as we think, and not nearly as smart.
Plus, we behave very differently in a crowd, all it takes for violence to take place is just one violent charismatic person to be surrounded by confused people.

Then there are truly cruel, evil people. All of us here on OOTS have met some of those  :'(
But I know that for me, most of the people who cooperated with my abusers weren't cruel themselves, not at all. They go where they're led, never asking questions or rocking the boat. 

You have every right to feel angry. And, the one thing you have a right to most of all is to respect yourself and be kind to yourself. I know how hard it is to do, but you don't deserve any cruelty. You deserve friendliness and empathy.

You're not alone.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 07:12:33 PM by ah »

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hereforhope

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Re: Struggling with anxiety
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2018, 08:31:04 PM »
Thank you for your reply, Ah. It meant a lot to read that your narc family had the same views on people, makes it easier to remind myself its a symptom of the narcissism. Also your words against such a view is something Ill remember for whenever I get despair and wonder if it could be true and I cant trust anyone.

I have Surviving to Thriving and printed out EF management. A lot of EF-feelings are what I deserve. I think Ive made my new contact at a clinic hate me.

If anyone want to hear me out, Id appreciate it very much.

On the first meeting I felt bitter about my past experiences in therapy, and ended saying I wouldnt be surprised if she abuses me. She seemed to think I was ridiculous. I said that I think its just human instincts to abuse the weak. She seemed very offended. Later I mentioned my fathers human views and talked about my fear and paranoia it was true, how I read answers about such questions online to get answers for myself. Now it seems like she thinks I like those views like a narc. I most likely expressed myself extremely clumsy. I met her again and I apologized for being angry last time and said I regretted it. She seemed convinced I view people in a hierarchy, and also "wonder where I am in it." I said, I think about such things because Im paranoid people actually think like that, in secret, and that love isnt true. She said we then had a misunderstanding, but I think she still thinks I get something out of it, like a narc.

Shes now decided Ill have a psych-evaluation, Im very worried about what shes written about me.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 08:52:11 PM by hereforhope »

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Rainagain

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Re: Struggling with anxiety
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2018, 06:25:20 AM »
Hey

Your T's attitude doesn't seem right to me.

Surely the setting is one of safe exploration of your feelings, it's not for them to get offended, they are meant to be working with you.

It sounds like they are responding to you as if you two are just having a conversation, its meant to have more value than that.

I would try not to worry about her opinion of you, she doesn't seem to understand what you've said and she doesn't sound professional.

Imagine a doctor hating a patient because they turn up with a broken leg, its just odd.

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sanmagic7

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Re: Struggling with anxiety
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2018, 12:57:50 PM »
i agree with rain, that meeting didn't feel right to me, either.  i don't like her attitude toward you at all.  she has no reason to be offended - you're a client expressing your feelings and opinions.  there should be nothing taken personally by a t - a t should be noticing your process, your perspective, and your perceptions as coming from a place of wounding. 

2 meetings is not enough time to get to know you and your 'tendencies', as in saying she thinks you're getting something out of this like a narc would.  how could she possibly come to such a conclusion in so short a time?  narcissism is very difficult to spot because it is covered up so skillfully by the true narcs.  not by those who have been abused by narcs.

i hope you get someone more in tune with trauma for your psych eval.  i can't tell you how sick i'm getting of hearing about incompetent (my opinion only) t's.  i know there are good ones out there, and i've heard of some on this forum who have been really helpful.  that t that you met didn't seem helpful to me at all.  warm hug full of caring and concern - i hope your eval goes more smoothly for you.


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ah

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Re: Struggling with anxiety
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2018, 05:11:56 PM »
I agree too.

Sounds to me like you were far more brave and mature than she gave you credit for. You tried to talk openly (how else can she help you, unless you're sincere?) and she didn't reciprocate. If she can't handle her own feelings, she's not mature enough to help others.

Besides, if she takes your own feelings personally she's not fit to treat people in pain.
She can't expect you to come talk to her when you're totally composed, sure of what you're going through and what everything means to you. If we felt that way when we went asking for psych's help, they'd be out of a job. We go to them when we're hurting.

And she can be totally wrong. As San said, she doesn't know you. She doesn't sound too competent.

What's missing the most from your conversations with her, to my mind, is the question: "Why?"
Which might lead to the perfectly logical, normal, sensible reason why: because we were told these things over and over again, we grew up with them and lived with them, scared by them, by people we depended on.
As young kids we can't afford to say to ourselves "My parents are lying to me". We have to believe them to survive.

(My F thinks I'm a waste of oxygen, and I still believe him. Part of me knows with 100% that he lied but... well, I still believe him, I know he's a psychopath but I still believe him. It doesn't make you or me crazy or bad or weak, it just means we've been in battles we can't even remember anymore.)

I wish t's and psychiatrists learned to ask themselves "What is this fear in reaction to?"
I guess I think of it this way: we're all walking around with an allergic reaction, but instead of looking for the allergen many t's and psychiatrists focus on the reaction. I can't imagine an allergy specialist shaming a patient instead of treating the problem. And of course, the allergic reaction can escalate if the doctor only stands there looking curiously at the rash, tsk'ing and saying distractedly "Oh, what an interesting rash... how impressive." Well yes, but why is it there?

I can totally understand how talking to her left you feeling anxious. You were scared of being misjudged, being called a freak, and then she insensitively and bluntly gave you just that impression. Well, she sounds a bit clueless to me.

I think I might leave her and her suggestions behind, and look for someone better.
If she writes a letter about you, if necessary, can you get a second opinion from someone who knows more about trauma?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 05:18:59 PM by ah »

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hereforhope

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Re: Struggling with anxiety
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2018, 02:23:29 AM »
Thank you for the replies, it means a lot.

I'm not sure what to think. She does seem offended, but I also did behave badly during the 1st session- when I said I thought she'd be abusive I was being disrespectful. In any case, I think I'll refrain from bringing up these kinds of topics again as it just makes people uncomfortable.

Ah, thanks for telling me that. From what I've read, things we're taught, even terrible things, about ourselves or others, simply get stuck inside our minds. So like you, I have a constant shame for who I am.

And good idea about getting a second opinion, I'll consider that if she still seems upset.

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DecimalRocket

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Re: Struggling with anxiety
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2018, 11:01:28 AM »
Hey hereforhope. Sorry if this is too long. I got rather . . . focused.

Many people here have already said the same thing to you, hereforhope. But I do believe you matter. And that you arenít some disgusting monster. Iíve felt that too ó for too much of a very long time since an age that was way too young to experience that level of self hatred.

Yes, there are certainly evil people in the world. Iím not denying that. But there are certainly good people too ó the news tend to enjoy oversensationizaling how bad the world is to get some views when for example, The United Nations Millenium Goals have been reached. Poverty has lowered, educational access has increased, gender equality is doing better in countries known for its discrimination and many others.

If youíre going to argue against it evolutionarily, then humans are both kind and cruel. Early research did point to human cruelty in their evolution but research has been updated. Research from Frans de Waal for example, have shown that apes have a ďcultureĒ. When they were trained to be more kind towards each other, many of them changed. They were different attitudes around different tribes along with different individuals. Natural instincts can be changed.

I usually deal with this fear by a site called Positive News ó where they show human kindness at its best and brightest. Sunny skyz is another alternative, with less grand scales of kindness, but everyday simple kindness.

I understand if that still doesnít seem comforting. I can read all kinds of things that would help, but when flashbacks are there, you often canít get the feeling of safety at all. It has to be repeated ó over and over again, without knowing if it will ever end.

I hear you have a fear of having some kind of mental disability hereforhope ó with dyscalculia. Iím familiar of it as a type of dyslexia thatís a math disability. I donít have that, but I do have Aspergerís syndrome. Not really obvious here since I understand people more when they tell their feelings directly with words, and I get the chance to be able to more deeply take my time to understand people ó unlike real life where you have to improvise as you go. But I do have it, and damn has it attracted bullies for much of my life.

Lots of people with some kind of disability tend to only emphasize their weaknesses. In the neurodiverse community, thereís this worrying trend going on where people only try to fix their problems in their life without trying to strengthen or notice whatís good.

But as research piles up, thereís this new trend that many of these disabilites have some form of strengths. ADHD people lack focus for example, but their lack of focus allows them to adapt to novel events and improvise in them can make that a strength. Aspies are seen as being too inflexible in their interests, but their obsessive focus on certain things is what allows them to understand certain areas of life very deeply. Dyslexia also tends to have research showing strengths. People with dyscalculia may lack the attention to detail for numbers, but that lack also means an ability to understand the bigger picture ideas so much better.

In a way, itís a new fight against discrimination ó like theyíve done with racism or LGBT hate. Different doesnít mean. And even if it was all weaknesses and no strengths, youíd still be valuable as a human being. Just as you are.

Take care, hereforhope. See you. :)







« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 11:11:32 AM by DecimalRocket »

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hereforhope

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Re: Struggling with anxiety
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2018, 12:14:49 PM »
Thank you for the long reply. I appreciate it very much. You said a lot of interesting things, especially about apes having cultures.
I saved those websites.

I sometimes suspect I've asperger's too. It seems I often make people very angry and annoyed and can't really understand why. I can read faces well (did an online test) but can absolutely relate to many other symptoms of it. I suspect my extreme childishness could come from some of the asperger's-traits a long with arrested emotional development. I'm sick of being afraid of truths about myself and instead am trying to be brutally honest. It feels like I can think a bit clearer now about myself, and posting a bunch of angry messages on a forum full of struggling people who try to be optimistic, makes me not like myself very much (i'll refrain from using curse-words). I can also see that I've definitely acted-out in therapy so it makes sense for a therapist (who's probably unused at meeting people as weird as I) to get angry. I'm also selfish, a mix of immaturity and fear of people's life-stories.
I realise that my life is a wreck and only a complete transformation can fix it.

Thanks to everyone who posted.