Shameful, like I don't have a rightful place in the world

[PeTe]

I'm working on standing up for myself. Unfortunately even small stands trigger intense feelings of shame. When I feel the shame, it's as if I don't deserve a place in this world, and I become (even more) afraid of anyone around me. The role of the shame is to try to stop me standing up for myself, and it says I can't expect to be treated in a just way and that I have no right to assert my needs or wishes. That feeling makes me feel helpless and hopeless, and I thought of suicide a couple of days ago when I was feeling that way (not going to act on it). I guess I turn aggression towards myself to try to protect others. Not feeling I have a rightful place in the world and being scared, avoiding conflict is also a way to protect myself, as I have a problem believing that people will limit themselves during a conflict.

I think this goes way back to my childhood, with a mother who instead of fulfilling my needs had gaping emotional needs that I had to fulfill and a father who was distant and didn't care much for childish needs. I had to hide my needs and go into more adult roles when interacting with my parents. Anger was a bad thing, crying could be ignored by my father or my mother could start to cry instead etc. In a way, I never felt like I had a rightful place in my family. Later, me not standing up for myself was how people could start bullying me, and of course my unassuming ways were exacerbated when I was subject to bullying, when any display of emotion or need would be turned against me. That extended the "danger zone" from the family to the whole world. Also, it's made me feel more or less like I deserve anything coming my way.

On the other hand, I have a quite developed sense of justice (maybe because of bad treatment), and that makes it easier to keep trying to stand up for myself.

[sanmagic7]

and i hope you continue those attempts at standing up for yourself until you accomplish it.  it's a good goal.

the idea of being denied your rightful place in this world is abhorrent to me.  when we are born, we instinctively know that we belong here and deserve to have our needs fulfilled.  that's why we call out to the world/our caregivers in the only way we know how - by crying.  we are standing up for ourselves and our needs for survival - claiming our right to be here.

that shame you feel belongs to them, to my mind.  you did nothing wrong by being born or by letting anyone know what you needed to continue to survive and thrive.  we deserve the space we take up, the air we breathe, and the food we eat by virtue of the fact that we are alive.  we need no other reason.  we are good enough just as we are to deserve what we need.

those messages you got, through being ignored or blocked spoke as loudly as words, if not more so.  those messages, however, were wrong.  sending you a hug full of knowing you belong.

[PeTe]

Thanks, sanmagic. I actually used to be very concerned about injustice towards others, thinking all humans have the same value or rights - that's when I've gone to the greatest lengths and put myself into most danger. I somehow don't acknowledge the same rights to myself as much or as forcefully. It just speaks about how I've been treated in a way I don't deserve, and how I started treating myself worse than others.

[Blueberry]

that shame you feel belongs to them, to my mind.  you did nothing wrong by being born or by letting anyone know what you needed to continue to survive and thrive.  we deserve the space we take up, the air we breathe, and the food we eat by virtue of the fact that we are alive.  we need no other reason.  we are good enough just as we are to deserve what we need.

I struggle to believe that for myself though, so you're not alone PeTe. 

[PeTe]

You're both right, and I try to practice it in the hope that I'll start feeling it. People I deem to be nice and trustworthy, I open up to and show faith in, and hope that those experiences will help me to really feel I can trust people, and trust that I can be myself. Makes me sad to realise I still don't feel I can be myself, *, I've probably never really been myself. No wonder I have issues with knowing who I am. Just asking the question of who I am, I so easily slip back to critiquing myself, saying I'm a failure and just feeling sad. When making an effort, I'm able to counter that. I'm not a failure, but it would be nice to feel more positive feelings more often and really connect with people instead of feeling ashamed, wanting to hide and go under.

[Gromit]

Hi PeTe,

I hear you. For me it seems to be easier to make a stand for someone else. I need to stand up for myself, but often I don't even realise it until it seems too late to do anything about it.
Keep trying.

[PeTe]

gromit, I also conceive of it to consist of steps. First I have to recognise something bad is done, determine how bad it is, determine whether to react or not and with what intensity. It takes a lot of time, to the point that sometimes the window is closed, and I picture that people that don't avoid conflict have a more intuitive/automatic response.

[Gromit]

PeTe, steps, or maybe we go everywhere with the brake on, other people ride through, only applying the brake when they actually need to stop, we keep our hand or foot there, just in case, and press it automatically.

I guess I can act for others because I can see it happening to someone else, see their reaction. I'm just not that aware of my own reactions, my invisibility is so good even I cannot see myself.

Yes, I often realise I could have done something when the window has closed.

[DecimalRocket]

Hi there Pete.

I've been trying to practice standing up for myself too. It might be different for you, but I found focusing inward first rather than trying to create some action of standing up in the real world as more helpful. We stand up first to others in our hidden thoughts and feelings before what we speak or act into the world. We can't also make independent answers if we can't make independent questions as well.

I wish you the best.

[PeTe]

DecimalRocket, I'm glad that worked for you. When I try to stand up to others in my thoughts, I find it overwhelms me, my anger just flares up at any time - a sort of classic fight between the shame and the anger. Doing it is somehow less triggering, probably because I'm asserting my right, which in a way validates making a stand. In a way I'm trying the other way around compared to what you do. However, I'm sure different situations will require different ways of dealing with them. Anyways, keep on practicing standing up for yourself! And if you think about it, by practicing, I would say you actually are standing up for yourself, you're making a change.

[radical]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/inviting-monkey-tea/201803/when-we-can-no-longer-silence-our-truth

This is a subject which is very close to my heart.  It is something I m working on all the time, so I know how hard it is.

From my own experience I think you are right when you say that this shame and not standing up for ourselves is at the heart of feeling undeserving of a place in the world and the work of changing this pattern is central to believing in ourselves and our place, and also, over time, having others treat us with respect, which also goes a long way towards feeling belonging and deserving.

The article above, from psychology today is where I feel I need to get to..  I hope it speaks to you as it spoke to me.  It's hard to respect myself and in doing so, let the chips lie where they fall.  I've felt like the sky would fall if people disapproved, or didn't like who I was or what I said.  Developing a tolerance
not just for disapproval, but for no response to my expressing myself is so worth it.

Like you I've always felt a strong sense of justice where others are concerned. Ironically, I have always stood up for others and done so pretty fearlessly.  It's a paradox.  You'd think it would make it easier to stand up for myself.

I have spent so much of my life treating myself as if I was worthless and pandering to the approval of others.  I always seemed to act as if there was an entrance fee that I had to pay, that others didn't.

Anyway, good for you PeTe.!

[ah]

Hi PeTe,

I really relate to this, too. I not only feel convinced I'm a waste of oxygen that has no right to exist, I was told I am on a pretty regular basis and I still am. So if the belief in it ever weakened it'd be reinforced soon enough.

I too find it much easier to stand up for others. I have since I was a baby, always stood up for my siblings even though they never, ever did for me, so I don't know if it's just a result of being mistreated. I think maybe you feel this way because you're a good, kind person with a caring heart. Being mistreated couldn't kill that in you.

I think I had a sense of justice and right and wrong, and just felt an urge to step in when someone else was mistreated. I paid for it really severely but kept doing it regardless.
It felt like I could tolerate much more if it was directed at me. Now as an adult, that feels like the only way I have out of my inability to be there for myself: how easy it seems to be for me to see others' pain.

I've tried a few different ways lately but one I keep returning to is I imagine someone else in pain, then two people, three, four... till there's a whole big group, and I care about them even if I think I'm not worth anything. I let my urge to protect them and stand up for them be there. Then I try to feel a bit of the same for me.
Not sure how to do it yet, but I guess I try to imagine myself standing in the back somewhere in that big group of worthy, feeling people. Like I'm someone else, not me. It lets me be less heartless toward myself.

Sometimes almost works for a fraction of a second, till self hatred kicks back in. But I keep trying.

I feel so ashamed for just existing  I feel ashamed for surviving, too. Well, barely surviving, but still.  it's so strong, so pervasive. There's no reason behind the shame, no arguments or reasoning, it's just pure shame. I guess it's our instinct to stand up for ourselves that was warped and collapsed into itself and turned into self neglect as a way to survive.
No wonder it's all so confusing... that alone would give anyone who wasn't traumatized a very big headache, I bet.

You're definitely not alone. I think this is such an interesting, thought provoking topic. Very sad, too. I'm so sorry you know what it feels like.

[PeTe]

It's nice with other people chiming in, it validates me (and my right to exist). Also, reading what you write, I decidedly think you deserve a place in this world and not have to earn it all the time, and that makes it easier to say the same holds for me.

radical - I think it's great that you're standing up for others, and that you're standing up for yourself more and more. I agree that caring less about other peoples' reactions is a part of the puzzle.

ah - I'm sorry that people convey you're a waste of oxygen. That's really cruel on their part. It sucks standing up for others, and not being returned the favor. I think you shouldn't feel ashamed that you survived, you can be proud that you managed to that! If you'd like, I've got a suggestion for how you could change what you're visualizing (not sure if it'd work, though).

[Blueberry]

PeTe, I'm still working on believing I have a right to exist. You're not alone.

[PeTe]

PeTe, I'm still working on believing I have a right to exist. You're not alone.

If it helps, I without a doubt think you have the right to exist, Blueberry