Starting EMDR

[Libby183]

Hi to everyone.  Hope you are all doing OK.

Thank you for your replies and concern.  As always,  it means so much to me.

My Emdr therapist works for a not-for-profit organisation that has a contract with the NHS to deliver psychological therapies. It is funded by the NHS and she has mentioned that she also works for the NHS directly. So I am guessing that she is as well qualified,  with all the appropriate standards in place. 

I think this is why I have been left doubting myself so much. If she appears to think that I am not sufficiently traumatised,  then I start to question myself.  Other than the gp who persuaded me to look into more therapy,  this is pretty much the reaction I have got from the professionals I have encountered.  Basically,  just a handful of GP's and one counsellor.  I had one course of CBT several years ago, but that didn't focus on the issue of abuse, and that therapist seemed very committed to helping me.

I explained to the GP that I was concerned that I would just feel invalidated again. He was very reassuring and I believe he genuinely wanted to support me to get help for my distress.  Now, exactly what I have feared has happened. When I started the therapy,  I felt it was my last chance to put the hurt of my childhood behind me, so that I could live a fuller life. If it didn't help, I would just accept my lot in life and hide away.

I don't really understand why people are so unwilling to accept my story of abuse. My abuse was physical - my mother had an awful,  violent temper. I was beaten frequently with shoes, mainly, and isolated in my room for a day or two at a time. I admit I was angry.  But then the emotional abuse would kick in, with the silent treatment,  guilt tripping etc, until I had done enough grovelling to be tolerated again.  Never, ever forgot or forgiven. Just stored away for next time. Added to which, there was quite a lot of what people here refer to as covert SA.  It seems enough bad experiences to have left a mark on me, without even going into my mother's behaviour around the birth of my premature twins, when I really needed support.  In my last session, this came up, and the therapist immediately took me back to early childhood memories.  That confused me, but maybe that's because I don't understand the therapy.  Perhaps San or eyesofblue can explain this.

Thank you,  Blueberry,  for reassuring me that being angry doesn't mean I have a PD myself.  I don't think I do, on the whole,  but looking at my current situation and dealings with medical people in the past,  I can't help thinking that this has been their assessment of me. If I tell my story and reveal a bit of myself and how I feel,  I get the impression that they think I am attention seeking and difficult.  I don't think that I am. I rarely bother my GP surgery,  because I feel so invalidated.  Am I imagining this as I am damaged?

I felt hopeful for the therapy,  but seem to have hit the same brick wall as usual.  I am not traumatised enough; am too angry; am not likeable enough.  I just don't know.

I have thought long and hard about forgiving my parents and believe I have managed that.  However,  giving up my anger at them had led me back to depression and lack of motivation.  Is that what the therapist wanted?  Is it a step in the treatment process.  I don't know. But I do know that if I hadn't been angry at my parents,  I would have repeated their behaviour with my own children and damaged them.

I am so utterly confused but hope that tomorrow's session will bring some resolution one way or the other.

Sorry for the long post.  I have been thinking about things so much, that it is good to just get things out there. But if any of you have any thoughts or advice,  I would love to hear from you.

Love to you all from a confused Libby!

I will certainly let you know how things go tomorrow.

[Hope67]

Hi Libby,
I have just read what you wrote, and I want to try to reply with something that might be helpful for you - but the thing is that it raises many questions and queries in my mind, in relation to my own distrust of services - and I was thinking about whether I might end up making you feel worse by sharing my thoughts - but I will try to say something - even if it's just to reflect a bit on what you wrote.

Because I've been considering the wounded parts of myself, I've acknowledged there's a protector part - that sometimes acts in a very defensive way on my behalf, and that part might even criticise the potential of helping professionals - might for example say 'they don't know what they're doing' 'be careful of them' - and then it holds me back from even approaching someone - that is the same with the GP situation - I find it hard to find someone that I feel I can trust - but that's not surprising considering the fact that for many of us, our FOO have NOT been supportive, have not been putting our interests first, they have been narcissistic and looked after themselves, and treated us badly in the process.  So for me, I carry around with me some distrust, and my 'protector' part wants to help me to not put myself in vulnerable situations - hence I haven't been as brave as you - to go and see a therapist for some EMDR.

I wondered if my reaction when you talked about it at first was because of my protector saying 'Yes, you see, that therapist doesn't know what they're doing' - and I thought that was potentially a harsh thing for me to have said - I wasn't sure about my reply.

I also wonder whether there's part of you that wonders about whether something is going to help you or not - and that maybe you then question it, and the T may have felt a bit defensive as a reply of her own.  Does that make sense?

Libby - I really want to say how brave I think you are to be going for this therapy, and maybe tomorrow, your therapist will be able to allay some of your concerns - what I think is that I'm not sure how good the UK systems are for treating people who have complex PTSD - I am sure there are pockets within the country that 'are' good - but I don't think there are many - and I just don't think that the system is set up to help us yet.  I think that this forum is pretty unique in being a place where people really 'get us' and understand us, and know what we've been through.

I'm sorry that I'm writing so much, as I feel like my reply is hijacking your thread, but I know you wanted people to reply and so I am doing so.

I think that therapists vary so much - just reading people's experiences in this forum, makes me realise how much they vary - and reading the self-help books too - they vary - but sometimes there are books that show how much a person does 'get it' - and thankfully those are more plentiful than was ever the case in the past decades.

I do think that people find it tough to 'hear' that childhoods weren't positive - and there are few therapists that can necessarily sit with that and process it themselves - it's like they should hear it, but they can't - they're not trained in trauma.  I know you said that your EMDR therapist is contracted etc, but maybe ask her directly about her qualifications - just to reassure you - but even if she's eminently qualified, it doesn't mean she 'gets it'.

Maybe your therapy will go better tomorrow - and I really hope that it does, Libby - but I hope that you won't let them put you off looking at your recovery and your well-being, because you've been through so much, and you are a lovely person, and I just wanted to give you a hug, if that's ok. 

I'm sorry to have written such a long reply.  I hope it's not triggering for you.

I hope it goes ok tomorrow, and I hope you're ok today.

Hope

[Eyessoblue]

Hi Libby. It's intersting that we both have emdr therapists with the nhs system, I feel like mine doesn't do the whole process properly, I've never really done the 'safe place' thing, never say what did I make of it what feeling do I get out of it now etc which I know they are supposed to do.
Tomorrow is my last therapy, really annoyed as I'm supposed to have 12, she was on holiday for 4 but they don't count that so I've actually 0nly had 8 so feel like I've been let down. She has told me I can go back and probably should go back as I'm now left with this inner child subject which is massive for me but know I won't get seen for about another 8 weeks so that's going to be a major struggle.

When I listen to your story I feel like your 'inner critic ' is talking to you, you say you don't feel like your abuse was bad enough etc you don't feel listened to, but any abuse is bad whether it be physical emotional and even if it just happened once it is still abuse and you have had to live with it and try and deal with it yourself, I don't think any proper professional would ever judge you on what you have had to suffer no matter how big or small it may seem to you, you have been affected and you need help!

I think maybe you just don't believe you deserve help and maybe with your recent emdr experience it's made you feel maybe I'm not right for this maybe it's because my abuse wasn't bad enough etc, but not everyone is right for emdr, and it's up to the professionals to find something that is good for 'you'.
Don't be hard on yourself, you've taken the brave step in asking for help which so many people can't/don't do, the nhs has worked well for me in some ways but not great where you only get given so many sessions then have to re do the whole procedure again I know it's down to funding and lack of therapists etc and I should be greatful for what I have had..
I too have repressed anger which comes out in the form of me drinking too much to escape that emotional angry pain I feel, again this will be something I need help with but will have to go back on that waiting list, emdr is supposed to help with anger issues and to a degree it has but talking therapy works better for me, again everyone is different.
I wish you luck for tomorrow, I'm more then happy for you to pm me if you need/want to.x

[sanmagic7]

hey, libby,

this is both my personal and professional opinion on what you've written.   first, i have no idea why that t would ask you about your own childhood when you were looking for help with issues surrounding the birth of your twins.  second, any t can have 1000 accredidations and plaques on their wall, but that has nothing to do with if they're a good t or not.  from what you've been writing, yours doesn't sound like she has very much experience with or belief in complex trauma.

unfortunately, most t's still go along with the dsm manual, which still doesn't recognize c-ptsd as its own entity.  therefore, a lot of them don't believe c-ptsd exists, let alone what's needed to treat it.  if you're feeling invalidated, libby, you probably are.  you don't have to doubt yourself about things like that.

you've been thru plenty enough abuse and trauma, and if your t or other professionals don't see that, it's on them - not your fault.  too many people don't believe unless there's tangible evidence.   emotional abuse, neglect, or covert sa is often not recognized as traumatic.  it's shameful to my mind that too many of us are not able to get the help we need because of incompetence (my opinion only)  at the worst, or disbelief.  i've just fired another t for exactly that reason.

emdr is a marvelous tool to be able to reprocess traumatic memories, heighten a sense of self worth and empowerment, and lessen anything, including emotions and behaviors when used correctly.  it's not just waving fingers or lights back and forth in front of your eyes, but includes talk therapy as part of the processing.  the t needs to utilize each in a balance that serves and benefits the client.

i don't understand why your t won't help you with the issues you bring up, libby.   and, eyessoblue, the idea of a safe place is a very important component of emdr therapy.  we need to know that as we go through the minefield of traumatic experience, that there is a place in our mind we can retreat to when we're feeling overwhelmed.

i'm so very sorry and angry that neither of you are getting the help you deserve.    i've seen so much of this here in the forum, as well as experienced it in my own life, and it grinds my gears no end.  libby, i hope you get some satisfaction from talking to your t about this.  it's her job to make therapy work for you, not to make you doubt yourself or start feeling invalidated.  support and validation are fundamental in a therapeutic relationship.

you don't need to give up your anger until you're ready, if ever.  emdr could easily help make it manageable if it was used correctly and productively.   i'll be interested to hear how it goes.  sending my best to you and with you, libby.  loving warm hug full of validation and belief.  and, yes, please feel free to pm me with any questions in case i don't get to this part of the forum. 

[Eyessoblue]

Hi Libby, how did you get on today? I think what SanMagic writes makes a lot of sense. I had my last therapy session today, but have now been referred to a 12 week anxiety clinic on the nhs, I start that in a month, it's supposed to be a lot of Cbt work and ways of how I can handle or by pass the anxiety basically making it manageable for me, not sure if this might suit you, I didn't know such a thing existed on the nhs but I will give anything a try.
I can go back to see my counsellor once this process is over in 12 weeks if I still need to which If I'm still getting the flashbacks etc then I'll need to do that, but just pleased I've got that option and not just being left with nothing! Hope it goes well for you today.
By the way my counsellor said to me today that as a nhs patient I have every right to change therapists if I need to, what works for one might not work for all, counsellors in the nhs are very used to having this process done and don't get offended if you ask to change, so if yours isn't working out then you do have the right to do this, just thought I'd let you know.

[Libby183]

Thank you all so much for your support and understanding.  By the time the session came along, I actually felt really calm and in control and that is, in no small part, down to all of you.  Thank you so much. You listened to me think through how I felt about the therapist and her requirement that I forgive my parents. You didn't tell me what I should do, which is definitely something I don't deal with well. After all, I have had a lifetime of that from parents,  which I know you understand.  Instead, I was able to work through my feelings. I was able to write a letter (to burn)  to my parents and it felt authentic to me.

In the session, I raised the issue of feeling that she didn't like me because of some thoughts I had revealed.  She turned this around,  and showed me this was the result of a self-limiting belief rooted in childhood adversity.  We then processed this, and it was surprising where it went, as it led to dealing with my fear of being touched and comforted; fear of intimacy and my life long phobia of people vomiting.  We started to deal with all of this, and I am back to feeling very hopeful.

I think you all suggested,  kindly, and in slightly different ways, that I was protecting myself, a bit distrustful of others, that my inner critic was telling me I was unworthy of help.  All were spot on, and you all helped me to work through this "block",  and I feel now that I can trust her. Telling her how intimacy and vomiting had become fused in my mind is something I have never told anyone,  although I think I may have alluded to it on this forum,  because I do feel safe here.

So, all in all, it was a valuable session and I think we are back on track now. I can honestly say that I wouldn't have worked through this without the support and warmth and caring that you have all shown.  I think it was a hurdle that had to be dealt with so that I could move on, and you have all helped me get over it.

I hope that things OK for all of you.

Eyesofblue, I am so pleased to hear that you have this new anxiety clinic lined up. It sounds as if it could be really useful and I am so happy that you are not going to be just left to cope alone. Hopefully,  it will help with all of the emotions that your EMDR has brought to the fore. I will be very interested to hear how it works for you.

Hugs to you all and thank you again. 

We will all speak again very soon, I know, and I look forward to it so much.

Off for a walk in the rain. My dog has been really poorly for the last week but is on the mend now. 

Take care,

Libby.

[Hope67]

Hi Libby,
I am really glad to hear how your session went, it is really good that you've worked through some things, and I hope you enjoy your walk in the rain.  I hope your dog will be better soon too.

Your post has given me some things to think about, because I feel the inner critic can hold me back from feeling that therapy could be beneficial for me, and I think it can be easy for such thoughts to sabotage things, but I think it's good to hear how sticking with something - can be beneficial and you are finding some good things there.  I am so happy for you that it went well.    to you Libby. 

Hope 

[Eyessoblue]

Libby, I'm so pleased for you, that sounds like a huge turning point in your life, from here you can but only move forwards now, just remember you deserve all the help you can get, I had a really nice chat with my therapist yesterday and she's said that although the nhs system isn't great for mental health, you as a nhs patient will get anything that you ask for in mental health that is your entitlement so if something doesn't feel right to you then it probably isn't, don't be scared to speak up, she made that really clear yesterday to me which made me feel a lot better, I always worry how people will perceive me and put up a bit of a cold barrier which can come across like I'm being really off with people, I spoke to her about it and she said that is very normal for people affected by trauma as it's a protection mechanism we have devised for ourselves, she said she noticed it straight away with me so very slowly tried to break that barrier without it giving me anxiety and she did just that which was great it built up my trust with her very early on which is unusual for me.
Keep us posted on how you're doing. Yes I feel relieved that I've got 12 weeks at this clinic, i was so worried about being left out there with no help, I feel a lot more relaxed now and extremely greatful for the help that I have received.

[sanmagic7]

both of you, libby and esb, i'm so glad for you that you were able to get some satisfaction for yourselves and feel back on track.  that's the best news of my day right now.  congrats to both of you for speaking up, for having an open mind, and for realizing some of what may have been going on for you.

and, hope, good for you for looking at this for yourself and making sense of it in your own life.   well done.

absolutely terrific.  these defenses of ours can truly be something else!  love and hugs all around.

[Libby183]

Hi Everyone.

I just wanted to let you all know that the EMDR therapy is going really well. I am starting to really understand how it works. It has really confirmed to me how my trauma began right from, and even before birth. And we have dealt with quite a lot if central issues.

The overwhelming thing for me, at the moment, is the physical pain. Even sitting to write this is difficult.  However, since the last session,  I think I am getting to grips with the memories that may well be contributing /causing the pain.

It was odd - after the last session,  I dreamt of my three children all being together.  I dream often of my daughter but rarely of my twin sons, so to have them interacting in a dream was unusual. This led me to think of their traumatic births (the only thing they have in common!),  back through two very upsetting memories from ages 12 and 5,  to my own traumatic birth and my mother's rejection of me. I can see such parallels and each link to the parts of my body that have so much pain. Around this, there are so many other memories that have been stirred up.

It sounds a bit "manufactured" in a way, but it also seems very logical. Whilst working through this, the pain has been so bad, but I still feel hopeful that reprocessing these memories may be the key to the physical pain. I will let you know how the next session goes.

Sitting to write this has intensified the pain so I need to lie on my side for a while!

Hoping very much that you are all OK.

Take care,

Libby.

[Hope67]

I just wanted to let you all know that the EMDR therapy is going really well. I am starting to really understand how it works. It has really confirmed to me how my trauma began right from, and even before birth. And we have dealt with quite a lot if central issues.

Hi Libby,
It's great to know that your EMDR therapy is going really well - and that you've dealt with quite a lot of central issues.  I am really pleased for you, as I know how hard it was at the start, and also how much pain you are currently experiencing too - I really hope that you can find a comfortable way to relax and that your body will resolve itself over time, so you can be pain-free. 

Hoping that your next session also goes well.
Take care,
Hope 

[sanmagic7]

hey, libby, i hope that pain is a result of stored emotions, thoughts, feelings, etc., and that as you continue re-processing them, the pain will diminish.  it's astonishing how much we can absorb into our bodies when we weren't allowed to let it out normally.  i truly believe that's what's happened for me.  i've been able to let a lot of pain and tears out thru massage over the years, but haven't found an emdr t to help me with it.  doing it physically is extremely painful in itself.  still, i'm better today than i was 10 yrs. ago.

i'm just glad your therapy is going better now.  that's so great to hear.  kudos to you for your courage and determination.  love and a warm hug to you, sweetie.

[Eyessoblue]

Hi Libby, sorry I've been away for a while but noticed your post on how well the emdr is working for you. I just wondered, do you have psychotherapy with it too? I did the 12 wks of emdr then was supposed to have 12 wks psychotherapy, but lots of other flashbacks came up so I continued with emdr for 4 wks then had 2 wks of psychotherapy and it all finished as my psychologist decided I needed help with my anxiety before she could deal with me anymore she said it's a different type of therapy that she couldn't do and has signed me up for 12 weeks of anxiety clinic which I'm on a waiting list for. I'm annoyed tho because it's the psychotherapy I really needed which because I wasn't getting the answers I wanted made me really anxious, I think if I'd just had the 12 weeks of psychotherapy then I'd be a lot further forward now, anxiety clinic maybe helpful but I previously had 8 weeks of Cbt which did nothing and I'm just hoping that this won't be a waste of time as well and will set me back again. I know these people are experts in their field but I wish they would just listen sometimes to what you actually think you need. I hope your emdr went well this week.

[Libby183]

Hi to everyone and especially Eyesofblue, Hope and Sanmagic.

I have been reading here regularly,  but have found it hard to write - several times,  I tried and failed. So thank you all for your continuing support and interest.  It means so much. It really does.

I think that shame has stopped me from posting more. The EMDR seemed to be going well after the last blip which you all helped me through.

I really like and trust my therapist and believe that she wants to help me and wants the best for me. I think I am in a similar position to you, Eyesofblue.  I just have the EMDR but we talk through things before and after the treatment.  I am just not sure how much more this treatment can help me. And I think she feels it too! We have reprocessed some traumatic memories from really early in life. In fact,  right back to birth, via the stories I was told over and again. It's helped - I feel less angry with my parents through accepting their limitations with me. But she wants me to come up with distinct traumatic memories. Other than the type we have already processed,  my trauma was carried out by mind games, subtle looks and comments, undermining, blaming and shaming, every minute of every day. Year after year,  from birth to age 45ish. The therapy doesn't seem to accommodate this, and I am not sure she fully grasps the nature of narcissistic type abuse. So I feel stuck, and even more damaged than I thought I was before.

I still have periods of awful physical pain, which I think she thinks should have resolved by now. Consequently,  I am seeing a GP today,  at her request,  to rule  in/out any physical causes. So I feel I am back to square one,  with no answers and little hope. I have been reading around the topic so much,  desperate for answers,  but probably not doing myself much good.  Perhaps I should just accept myself as I am - a damaged person inside, but with an OK life outside. Because I am coping better with my life.

I can be pain-free and depressed, in pain but in a good mood, or depressed and in pain. There seems to be no pattern that makes any sense.  Or maybe the therapy hasn't or can't access the cause. I just don't know.  Cptsd is just so all-encompassing,  isn't it?

I am going to carry on trying. My therapist has suggested I recall memories that confirmed in me that I was weak.  I think powerless or helpless sums it up better.  It's the sort of double bind I always come up against,  though. My nm wanted me weak and powerless,  to make her feel better.  I may have had an easier time with her if I had gone along with this. So I wasn't totally weak and powerless because I fought against this and suffered more, but broke the chain of intergenerational abuse. It's such a tangled web and I am so confused!

I hope the new treatment works out for you, Eyesofblue,  but I really relate to your frustration.  It's so true that only those who go through this can truly understand.

Hugs to you all.

Libby.

Pleased to be back, and seem to have a lot of words for someone who said she didn't have any!!

[Eyessoblue]

Libby, you're story is so similar to me, whilst reading it I kept thinking, that's me that's me! Maybe we do get to an emdr point when the painful memories have gone but we're still left with questions and wanting answers that's certainly true for me. I too get the physical pain and like you have been advised to see my gp and ask for blood tests in case it's anything else, but I don't think it is, I think it's just part of cptsd. I really feel I'm in need of weekly counselling now which as you know on the nhs everything involves waiting lists and only so many appointments allowed. I really want to carry on with this therapist as we do connect really well together and I trust her totally but I am thinking maybe I should look privately and have someone I can see long term without having to have all these breaks and back on the list, it frustrates me so much! I too broke the chain of abuse which my therapist comments on regularly, it's clearly a huge thing in her eyes but I guess I don't really think like that! I too have this pattern that makes no sense and again I need answers but haven't really had the psychotherapy that I feel I desperately need to give me this. I hope you continue to progress, it sounds like you've worked through loads.