Panic? or Emotional Flashback?

[Mayflower]

Hi,

Over the last 25 years I have struggled intermittently with, what I have called up to now, panic.  However, since perusing the information on this forum, I am wondering if what I am experiencing is not panic at all, but an emotional flashback. 

The thing is, my 'panic' only occurs with certain males.  The feeling is a mix of fear and anger, though I am able to physically breathe and am fully aware of who the other person is and where I am (I do not feel as though I have been transported back to being a child in the past).

Although I've worked with 'K' (male number 6) for about three years, over the last month or so, I've been floored by this feeling whenever he appears.   I have recently informed him of what is going on for me, and he has said he will help if he can, though I am at a loss as to how to deal with it.  I have tried sitting with the panic in the past though it doesn't subside, nor am I physically able to completely avoid K.

All the males this has happened with have been the kindest, most respectful, lovely people you could ever wish to meet and are definitely not the sort I should be frightened of.  I have had therapy in the past (including with a male therapist) though I do have the option to request more if I feel I need it.

If anyone has any thoughts I would appreciate their input. 

Thanks a lot

Mayflower

[DecimalRocket]

It's hard to deal with things when you don't know why it's happening.

Sorry, but I can't tell you why this is so. Only you have full access to your memories here. I can only tell you a way to discover the process.

There's a simple meditation to be aware of your emotions and thoughts. Basically, you have to ask, What am I resisting?. It's best not to try to answer it, but keep gently repeating it until an answer naturally comes up. Forcing an answer can mean you might make up something you want to believe, but not actually is true. Many insights also come better when you let it be drawn towards you, rather than forcing it through.

Any trouble with men before? Maybe it's not men, and more about something specific about these men? What do they have in common? What makes them different from other men? What triggers it in the exact moment? Their words, appearances, voices, etc.? Also, many people here are triggered when all or certain people are kind to them. Many of us don't think we deserve it and our inner critics can go crazy.

[Mayflower]

Thank you.  I will certainly have a go at this and think about what you have said.

Kind regards,

Mayflower

[Mayflower]

Okay, here goes....  (I'll give it in the present tense to make things flow a bit better)

- 5 out of 6 of the males are tall (5'10ish - 6'4) with dark hair though none of the males who hurt me fitted both of these descriptions

- 5 out of 6 are the most kind-hearted, gentle, respectful people, though fiecely protective if it boiled down to it - the other one, I didn't really know - it was as if there was a radar and my alarm simple decided to go off

- there's a link somewhere about attachment - at least with the last two - the panic is almost about me saying "stay away from me, do NOT hurt me, else I might bite".... please don't leave me!!

- again with the current and the last person, there is something about the way they look at me - it's as if they can see into my soul.  Yeah, odd I know, but I want to ask what he is seeing

- with the same two people, they are softly spoken and I would say they are quiet in their demeanor, though self-assured.

The panic happens instantly.

I'm going to continue working with it, though K is currently on leave a for a while now.

[sanmagic7]

just a thought off the top of my head - could the panic be because these men are so unlike others in your past who have hurt you?  maybe that the idea that they could genuinely be kind to you strikes that inner panic button because you're afraid they are an illusion, they couldn't possibly be nice men, which is something you're not used to.

just what came to my mind.  sometimes we're afraid of the very thing we long for, wish would be true, or want to happen.  i went thru an extremely difficult time being afraid of continuing the relationship my hub and i had been forming cuz it seemed to be everything i'd been looking for.  i had to sit with that for hours until i could make it ok in my head to take the chance with him.  i had been ready to run until i figured it out.

these things can be so tricky for us.  i do hope that you find your way thru this maze of panic that hits you to a place of understanding and acceptance.   big hug to you, mayflower.

[Mayflower]

**TW?**

Many thanks for your reply, sanmagic7

just a thought off the top of my head - could the panic be because these men are so unlike others in your past who have hurt you?  maybe that the idea that they could genuinely be kind to you strikes that inner panic button because you're afraid they are an illusion, they couldn't possibly be nice men, which is something you're not used to.

Yes, I think this is about right.
While I was trying to explain the panic to K, I told him that it was if I was waiting for something (bad) to happen.  The thing is, he has always been unbelievably kind and helpful - I think that is just how he is - though I think my system simply got to the point where it couldn't tolerate it any more - as if it said "PLEASE STOP THIS - what on earth does he want back for treating me like this?"

Thing is, K doesn't know my past, so I don't think he knew what to make of the panic!  I couldn't even bring myself to tell him that I liked him, or I thought he was lovely - for (stupid!) fear of it being misconstrued.  I went to see him a few days ago - he said words to the effect of "well, you know where I stand, but if it isn't reciprocated... (I freaked and pulled a face) oh, we're good, we're good (he smiled)".  I don't know what to make of it.  I guess he said it to make me feel better? 
I can't stay in the room long enough (without freaking out or my head going to cotton wool) to get to know him... Anyway...  I feel like a child caught between a rock and a hard place - if he returns then we will probably work through it between us or I'll try to get a therapy appointment, though if he doesn't, well, here we go again - another person I've got close to, only to leave...

I've been like this with someone before (male number 5) and tried to work through it in therapy at the time, though it didn't really help.

I struggle with saying I was abused by my family.  Let's just say bad stuff happened - physically, sexually...  and emotionally.   The best any of my family could do was to ignore me.  I didn't feel loved.  They didn't even tell me they liked me.  I felt hated.

just what came to my mind.  sometimes we're afraid of the very thing we long for, wish would be true, or want to happen.  i went thru an extremely difficult time being afraid of continuing the relationship my hub and i had been forming cuz it seemed to be everything i'd been looking for.  i had to sit with that for hours until i could make it ok in my head to take the chance with him.  i had been ready to run until i figured it out.

Wow, that must've taken some guts, full credit to you x

Thanks again.

[sanmagic7]

here's one of my favorite stories about this kind of situation.  i heard it a long time ago, but i still use it for myself at times.

think of lions in the wild.  the male has a huge, fearsome roar, extremely frightening, while the female is the actual hunter.  they wait on either side of the path that a herd of animals travels.  as the herd comes near, the male begins his roaring.  the herd of animals become frightened of this sound, and turn away from it.  the trouble is, they turn toward the female who then selects one to bring down.

so, we often hear the roar in our lives because of past abuse, problems, trouble when we encounter a new person or situation.  we get scared of that roar because it reminds us of danger, and we run in the other direction.  in reality, the roar is simply a bunch of hot air, and cannot hurt us.  the real danger is waiting in the other direction.

in our lives now, away from what happened to us in the past, i think that we are faced with lions and roars that need a determination as to which is which.  too often we turn away from the roar just cuz it sounds or seems scary, or reminds us of something that hurt us in the past, which means we head for the lion where the true danger lies instead. 

with these men, then, mayflower, are you responding to a roar that reminds you of past dangers, but in the present is nothing but hot air and can't hurt you?  the only thing we can go on is the reality of how we're being talked to and treated.  that's what gives us a clue as to whether the possibility of a relationship is truly dangerous or if we're hearing a roar from our past that's scaring us so badly we will pass up a chance to have someone nice in our lives. 

looking for lions and roars in a relationship is an ongoing thing, to my mind.  we always need to be checking in on this, clearing the air, asking questions, monitoring the situation, discussing boundaries, all that good stuff.  it doesn't matter who the relationship is with - family, friends, romantic, business - they all count.  the more we can incorporate helpful, supportive, compassionate people into our lives, the better off we'll be.  but we always have to be aware of lions and roars.

not that we're on pins and noodles all the time, just that we have that knowledge in the back of our minds.  it becomes easier with practice, and taking small steps, testing the waters each step of the way.  i don't know if this might be helpful for you, but it was what i went thru as i sat determining if continuing on with the man who would eventually become my husband was heading toward the lion or the roar.

best to you with this.  it is frightening, can be difficult to make the determination, but i think it gives another perspective to relationships, etc. that can help us make a more informed choice for ourselves.  big hug, warm and loving, if that's ok.

[Mayflower]

Thank you, sanmagic7 for taking the time to post.

I have been thinking about this and, you are right, I have been facing away from the caring people and facing towards the... not so caring ones...  It's easier, somehow, to pretend that everything is alright with the ones who couldn't care less.  To pretend that I am 'normal' and an okay person and lived a great life.

The people who care, well... I start to trust, and then it hurts... I go through this 'back off, it's too painful, I can't cope with this' stage... I query what on earth is happening... and blame them for hurting me and not doing what I'm used to... but it's not them who are causing me pain.... It's the pain within myself... I can't tolerate the 'waiting for something to happen' - it's hellish.  So it's easier to blame them and face someone who doesn't bring these feelings up for me.  Someone who isn't that bothered about me, or has their own issues to deal with.  The thing is, I have this belief that I will 'taint' the other person - the 'good guy' - why should they bother with me when they could be interacting with someone much less 'bothersome'?

I know I need to work on dealing with the shame I grew up with - the inherent badness that has come along with everything that has happened... but it's going to take time.

Thanks again.

[sanmagic7]

it will take time, but you're taking the first steps in your realizations of what the dynamic really is.  good for you.  it's a great start.

this c-ptsd beast really poisons our perspective and perceptions, turns things around on us till we don't know what's up or down anymore.  venomous fangs that have been sunk into us at too early an age to defend against.  with determination, courage, and patience we can get to the point where we're able to begin pulling those fangs out and healing the wounds.

as far as 'tainting' someone else, you don't have an infectious disease.  you have deep wounds that have hurt you and caused you unspeakable pain.  it makes perfect sense to me that you transfer that pain to others - it's a survival/defense mechanism.  once it was very true - those people in your past were the ones who caused you pain, were the ones to blame for your hurting, and couldn't be relied on to take care of or protect you when they were supposed to.

as far as moving forward with new people in your life, take it slow, small steps, find out about them a little at a time.  there's no rush when it comes to your emotional safety and well-being.  the ones who see you for the good person you truly are (a bad person would not worry about 'tainting' others cuz they don't give a crap) will be willing to be with you and accept you for you.   

i have faith in you, mayflower.  you'll get to where you need to go.  warm compassionate hug for you.

[Mayflower]

I'm sorry... all I can say is thank you.

[Mayflower]

I'm really fretting about K returning next week.  I'm fretting about panicking and I know this will just make me panic more.

In our meeting I told him about what everyone who I've panicked with has been like (kind, gentle etc etc) and I'm wondering if he does think I have feelings for him, which would explain why he said he liked me.  I was merely stating a fact - that I don't understand why I could feel that afraid of people who are so decent.  Part of me is sure he's pushing buttons to push my defences... though, my word, it is painful! 

I've always blamed myself for the stuff that happened - I must've said something to my dad to... I remember I used to blow him kisses - but surely that's just childhood stuff??

I'm frightened of 'working with this' if that is what we're going to do... I don't know what the other answer is - I've tried ignoring it and avoiding him as much as I can and, I agree with K, it hasn't helped one bit.  Though what are the ethics of working through stuff with a colleague?  Last time I went through the guilt thing because I felt there was a power dynamic differential, though in hindsight I should've just gone with it like he said - I felt as though I should have been paying him and that we were up to something we shouldn't have been, and the guilt consumed me, plus I wasn't able to process it with him properly because we weren't having strict regular meetings as someone might with a therapist.

I hate this - the waiting and wondering what on earth is going to happen.  I'm like this even if the 'other' isn't going to do anything at all....  I know it's wrong, but it feels like I want to say to the other person "For goodness sake, just get it over with" (and let me get on with my life).  I guess I'm getting triggered in the fact that dad would disappear for weeks at a time and I would never know when or if he was going to come back (or what state he would be in when he did)...  I don't know exactly what day K will return, and that unsettles me - if I know, the panic will be much less - it is when he turns up 'unnanounced' that I freak because I've normally got someone else with me and I need to concentrate.

People have said in the past that this 'panic thing' is transference.  It makes sense in the fact that I am, no doubt, transferring the feelings (anger, fear) onto the other that I should've (did?) felt towards my dad... but these people are nothing like my dad.  I don't look at them and see my dad - I look at them and see them.  I don't have secret fantasies of wishing the would be my dad / care for me (or whatever!).

I guess I need to focus on something else, else I'll drive myself crackers and end up being poorly.  It's good to 'talk' in a safe place though.

[sanmagic7]

as kids, with the logic of a child's mind, we always blame ourselves if something goes wrong in our family.  kids are egocentric - that's how they're built - and just don't have the capabilities or logic of an adult mind.

as we grow and begin to be able to see the world with more logic, experience, and ways to express ourselves, our world expands.  we begin to see cause and effect differently.   we start to understand that wishing doesn't make it so, that we aren't to blame for others' actions, choices, or behaviors.

it sounds like there may be a strong connection between your father leaving without a word of reassurance that he'd be back and these fears you now feel, especially when you're not sure what might happen when.  i don't know, just guessing.  he acted erratically, which kept you guessing, doubting yourself, wondering what you did wrong, did you chase him away, did he do this because of you?

blowing kisses to him is such a sweet gesture.  if you didn't get a pos. response for that, what might a child think?  nothing good about themselves.   somehow they failed, and feel ashamed, like they should have this all figured out.  i think that's pretty common for us when we've been traumatized.  we've often been forced to think and act like an adult before we truly had the capability or understanding to do so.

i don't know if any of my musings help or not, mayflower, but i do want you to know that you're not alone in this.  sending love and a hug full of compassion and lovely thoughts.

[Mayflower]

I had a bit of a 'freak out' last week and deleted my posts...

I met K in the corridor this week - I saw him walking towards me and I held the door open for him.  He jogged over to take the door from me and told me to go through though, as with our usual 'battle of the doors', I was on the verge of flipping in the process.  He said "Let me help you" which made everything worse.  By the time we had finished, I was left spiralling.  I couldn't calm down, so as soon as I was able, I went to him and asked him for a few minutes at some point, so he took me in his office.  We spoke, I told him about how I'd been over the last week (how I freaked' when he walked into the room... I had a visual flashback soon afterwards and hadn't slept most of the week)... He was left perplexed because he had no idea why I had had such a strong reaction to him.

Cutting a long story short... Is it possible that I have been re-enacting this in order to process it?

My dad could get violent when he was drunk... even when I was 7 or 8, nobody said afterwards "That was horrible wasn't it, let's have a hug and a cry (or whatever) and I promise you it won't happen again / I'll stand up to him".

The feelings of panic (I get from K and had from the other people I felt it with) appears to be how I felt when stuff was happening - how dad would just reappear out of nowhere after his 'deapearring drinking binge'.... though it made no sense that I only wanted comfort from the very people who had initally 'made' me panic.

It wasn't until this week when I was in K's office apologising for saying I wanted to throw the fridge at him... I said I would never do such a thing... (he doesn't know much about my past)...  "You can, it's okay" he remarked... I shook my head.  It confirmed what I already knew, that he would never be violent with me.   I know we were talking metaphorically but he didn't say he would get a bigger fridge and flatten me with it!

That evening, I tried to figure out what it was that I wanted from K in the midst of the panic - I felt that I was a child screaming for him to make it stop.... but I thought K can't - it's not happening now, dad's not here and I'm an adult... So I did some sort of 'inner child work' - held her etc... and sobbed for about an hour.  When I saw K unexpectedly the following day, I felt much calmer than I had the previous one.

I know children tend to recreate events to process stuff in play therapy, though is it possible this is what I've been doing as an adult without even realising it??

[Deep Blue]

Mayflower,
Good job identifying the inner child and interpreting your feelings.  I'm glad you felt more comfortable seeing K the following day.  Best wishes in this process, it's arduous but I think you are making some good progress, even if it doesn't seem that way now.  Sending you some warm wishes.
Deep Blue

[Mayflower]

Thank you for your kind words, Deep Blue.

I saw K again today.  He spoke to me about lying down in a small room and there was a problem with the lights (all three are my triggers which he is unaware of) - he wasn't talking offensively - it was to do with work and I was aware of this.  He asked me if I was okay (I don't think I answered him (oops)).  I was still spiralling two hours later.

I didn't tell him I panicked, though I did say I wanted to start again as colleagues.  I can't keep 'running' to him every time I panic (which appears to be every week since he's been back).  He says if it's a case of him spending five minutes calming me down then he doesn't mind, though in my view I should be able to calm myself down.  I seem to be getting worse instead of better - I can't keep being like this.  He said today he sees me as a friend, though this freaked me out even more though I didn't tell him this).  The poor man can't say or do anything without me freaking out (this is how it's been with most of the people I've panicked with).

I really don't know what to do.  I don't know whether to tell him my past from start to finish or change my job or what.  I feel a wreck.