Issues with Over/Under Eating - Part 1 (Locked)

[Blueberry]

Could you wait till tomorrow please Kizzie? I'm sure in the end we will merge these two but there's something bothering me and I'd like to allow whatever it is to resurface and be dealt with. It's an IC thing. I have T tomorrow anyway in case I don't get further on my own.

[Blueberry]

Yes, go ahead and merge the two Kizzie, when you have time.

[Kizzie]

OK, the threads are merged so it will be a little disjointed. 

Again, for anyone posting to this thread please know it is OK to talk about any eating issue you may have without worrying about hijacking

[Sceal]

I feel ready to share (I hope). ( I might delete this post later on, I am not sure if it's too soon for me to talk about this. So I ask very carefully and kindly not to be given advice on this topic. I just need support and understanding, or questions. And I hope it's okay I am open about that. )
I got what is called "unspecified eating disorder", which is something that is rarely if ever talked about. It's hard for me to explain it, because most of the time I eat too little (apparently?) while feeling it's too much, or feeling it is the wrong sort of food entirely. And the constant feeling that I'm doing something wrong, and I can never get it "right". And sometimes I eat too much, and I think it is qualified as actually too much. I can eat til I get sick.
I also eat to drown out emotions, although I don't realize it while it's happening. I don't realize that is what is going on - most likely because I'm in so little contact with my emotions. I'm having a hard time to making sense of this in my own head - so I'm fine if someone else is confused by this too.
I rarely feel hungry anymore, I notice I get worn out, my head gets empty or I'm suddenly nauseus. That's when I realize it's been too long since I last ate. So I try to eat regularily. If I eat breakfast at 08, I need to have lunch at 12-13. And so forth. My T wrote in a letter to the hospital recently that my eating disorder is a result of my trauma's.
We've never discussed that. She might be right, in fact - I am fairly certain she's right. But it surprised me to read it, when we hadn't talked about the food in connection with trauma.
There is alot of shame. Mountains upon mountains of shame.

[Blueberry]

Hey, Sceal, it's really OK, good even  that you're open about what you need.

I actually think I do understand roughly what you're talking about. I don't feel confused. I certainly understand about the constant feeling that I'm doing something wrong. In my case it comes in different contexts, that's all.

I'm sorry you feel so much shame. I know the feeling too. If it's not too much or inappropriate 

If there's anything in this post of mine which bothers you, tell me, I'll remove it.

[Sceal]

There's nothing in your post that bothers me, dear Blueberry!
and the hugs are so extremely welcome right now 

[artemis23]

Sceal, I can totally relate. My ED and food issues don't fit neatly under any diagnosis. Plus, they totally shift and change. Sometimes I'm eating too little thinking it's too much, I used to do this and purge it some years ago. Then sometimes truly eating too much. Then not at all. It's just all over the place for me. It's totally shame based, you nailed it on the head. I think that not eating really helped me keep myself in an even more extreme state of dissociation as well. It's numbing. Over eating feels more like addiction/self medication kind of a thing for me. It's compulsive like. It's all so complicated.

[Libby183]

Sceal and artemis, I understand exactly what you are talking about.  I have always had a problem with food, but not like a definable eating disorder.  Actually,  I think I am scared of food, because it was used to control me so much by my nm. I find it hard to know if I am hungry or not, I eat something then feel anxious that it was the wrong thing or I feel too full or it will make me ill.  This then feeds into my vomiting phobia. At its most simple level,  it comes down,  I think, to the way if I said I was hungry,  nm would tell me that that wasn't possible because she was not hungry. If I didn't want to eat, I was told I had to because she had cooked it, it was lovely and the whole family were hungry and enjoying it! 

I have improved a lot since being nc with FOO,  but the issue is still very much there and, in fact, it is something that we have just started to address in EMDR therapy.

This is a huge area within trauma, I have read, and our difficulties seem to make perfect sense within the cptsd framework.

I will just ask, if you don't mind, but does anybody have an issue with food smells? I feel as if I really over react to food smells. They can cause flashbacks,  but a food smell I can cope with one day,  can cause such distress another day, that I can't tolerate it and won't eat it.

Thank you so much for talking about this. As ever, we realise that we are not alone in these things and that really helps.

Libby

[sanmagic7]

sceal, just sending you love and hugs, and letting you know i'm with you. 

[Kizzie]

So brave of you Sceal to talk about something that causes you mountains and mountains of of shame      I feel a little braver when you and others post (which is not to suggest you can't take the post down if you need/want to), so tk you and everyone who has been so open. 

I've been thinking about feeling driven to overeat and I suspect the toxins released by the trauma that resides in us may have a lot to do with this and maybe with feeling hungry then not, smells bothering us one day and not so much the next, etc.  In other words I don't think it's all psychological, there's a strong physiological component as well.  Excess cortisol comes to mind for example.  Trauma causes changes in us not only emotionally but physically and for any of us with CPTSD, any program/treatment must take this into account. In all of the programs I went to I never felt like any hit the mark in this respect.  I just always felt like the message was I needed to have more willpower/persistence/whatever. 

I watched a documentary a while back about a woman with anorexia and she had tried everything to no avail until she found a doctor who suggested deep brain stimulation.  Quite literally it was about saving her life at that point so it's not for everyone by any means.  It took a year but she now eats normally.  Anyway, it stuck with me because to some extent because I feel that my drive to eat is similar to how she felt the drive not to eat (albeit much, much less so obviously), Abstinence hasn't worked like it did for me with smoking and drinking  so I'm not sure it's an addiction so much as some parts in my brain are suppressed and others overactivated.      I'm not sure what would help with this, maybe a range of tools from mindfulness to neurofeedback?    Just noodling here 

[Sceal]

I am humbled by the support. Thank you all! Too much for me to reply to for now.

But Kizzie, I'd like to say something to you. You say abstinence hasn't worked with food as it does with smoking and drinking. First of all, It's an incredible feat that you managed to quit those as they are so addictive. But food however, is something we actually can't quit. We don't need smoking and drinking alcohol, but we do need food. Our bodies will work against our willpower and stubbornness, and eventually we will have to eat - or we die.

A personal trainer told me recently that when people start to diet, or they want to change their way with food... they try to fix everything at once - and in the long run that's just impossible. It's too much work, it requires too much of us. And when we have other things that we're trying to work through as well, it just... it wont work. So it is better to focus on changing (not fixing) one thing. One small thing, and build it into a habit overwriting the one you want to change. So when the stress hits you revert back to the new habit, not the old.

Something I was taught at uni last year was that in order to create a new habit, or change the way we think about our habits we use enormous amounts of resources to avoid the old habit. And the willpower that we use gets depleted, it only last for so long. And our willpower is strongest if the brain has high glucose levels to work with, once those get depleted (as they do quite quickly) our ability to resist temptation becomes weakened.

I just realized I had alot to say afterall. It's not easy any of this, and neither is it simple.

[Dee]

The first book I ever read on eating disorders were about them all, in one book.  The book theorized that binge eating, bulimia, and anorexia are all related in some way.  Additionally, whenever I read any of the symptoms of CPTSD, eating disorders are often listed.

[Kizzie]

I agree Dee, I think it's all linked, and that really helped

I did read somewhere that salt, sugar, carbs and fats light up the brain much like drugs so perhaps I am dealing with an addiction to the pleasure these provide me, especially for younger me who still seems to need more/different comfort.  Add to that hormones and chemicals like cortisol that are released when we're stressed and it's a very powerful push, which I guess is that feeling of being driven I experience.      

So small steps and new habits Sceal, I agree. Fortunately younger and adult me do enjoy love salads and vegetables so I have started finding different ways of making these (chopping, cooking,  experimenting) and integrating them into meals to a greater extent.  So far so good, we are enjoying it. Having fun was how i enticed her out a few years ago so might as well go with what works. 

[Sceal]

I find it hard to choose a small step and stick to it. Just that. Because on the days I feel better I add more goals.
I've had to deal with a bucket load of body shame this week after going through various skills for DBT to calm me down from being in a crisis. I was under the tolerance window when I was doing these that it just messed up my system. And it's still lingering. It's affecting my eating too. Not that I go out of the way to eat less or different. I just had breakfast and then a minor snack if you could call it that instead of lunch.. and not dinner until 7 hours later. It's not good for me. I'm struggling to deal with the food and the body shame at the same time.

[Blueberry]

I find it hard to choose a small step and stick to it. Just that. Because on the days I feel better I add more goals.

Sounds very familiar.

Combined in my case with emotional growth in all directions all at once. So I have all these different impulses for changing things in my immediate life. It always feels as if I'll shut down these changes if I restrict my eating. So NTS the feeling of restriction is the problem. Topic for Screen Processing or therapy next time I'm there.

It might well be a biggie because when I was growing up FOO did quite a lot emotionally to shut me and my life energy down. Actually all the different kinds of abuse shut me and my life energy down. I'm noticing that rn as part of me goes numb. Or in part I shut my own life energy down as a child / teenager in order to make myself as small and non-noticeable as possible.

Restricting anything seems as if I'm restricting myself. Need to work on emotions and maybe even physical body believing that's not the case. Cuz cognitive belief is not enough for me to change my eating habits.