People telling you how you feel

[keepfighting]

Earlier this week, I had a phone conversation with en sis. The anniversary of my DDs accident is just a few weeks away and I'm dreading it. DD was catapulted off the backside of a jumping cushion last year and landed on the electric cable's drum, face first. She suffered a concussion, her front teeth were knocked out and minor fractures in the nose. Long story short, she has at least 11 years of specialized dental care ahead of her (it happened when she was 9 and she needs regular supervision of the developments of her upper jaw till it is fully matured by the time she's 20 and may end in the necessity of having reconstructive surgery of the entire upper jaw).

In the first weeks she was in so much pain and the pain meds barely took the edge off. DH and I took turns sleeping in her room because she needed new meds and constant care. It was a horrible time for all of us, most of all for DD, of course.

We are fully aware that we can also be grateful that she landed the way she did - if she had landed any other way, she could have suffered brain damage or even have died. But that doesn't take away the severity of the injuries she did in fact suffer nor the long way to full recovery with quite painful procedures in between.

Anyway, I was talking to en sis about it and telling her how DH and I feel quite over protective of her and still need to fight the urge to forbid her quite normal activities for kids her age (I'd like one of those bowls that the squirrel Sandy in the Spongebob episodes wears to feel better about DDs safety  ). Then my sis kept saying: "Oh, you're just feeling anxious because she is you 'baby' and you don't want her to grow up."

I tried telling her that this dread we feel is completely different from how we felt before the accident and has nothing to do with my baby growing up but she kept insisting that that was what I felt. I stopped trying - she  was so insistant that she knew my feelings better than I did that I decided it was better to let it slip and change the subject...

Even though she probably meant well, I soooo hate it when people are trying to tell me how I feel. Just listen!

[sasha~]

Wow! That's really invalidating to tell a person how they feel! It seems to me that you feel worried for a very understandable reason, and it must be difficult to figure out how to walk that tightrope with a medically fragile child - between protecting her and allowing her freedom. I think that would be really difficult.

My (adult) DD is always reminding me when someone is invalidating or unkind or gaslighting, "It says more about THEM than it does about you." I think this kind of fits in your sister's case, too. When she says "You don't want her to grow up" it says more about her than about reality. Maybe it relieves her guilt if she diminishes your concerns. Then she doesn't have to feel badly about your daughter's situation or do anything. She can just dismiss your family and think about herself. It could be that.

Something that makes me crazy is when I talk (sometimes I talk slowly when I'm trying to find the right word or when I'm fighting dissociation) and then the person I'm talking to finishes my sentence. Except they finish it in the exact opposite way I was going to, and often say horrible things!  Ex:

me bending down to pick up newspaper: you know, when the newspaper carrier leaves the newspaper in the driveway like this instead of in the special box...

person: it makes you furious and want to kill him! I bet you're going to call the newspaper and cancel and tell them EXACTLY what you think of their deliveries!

me: um.... no. I was going to say then the newspaper gets all wet and can sometimes gets driven over...

The other person often acts like "Oh SURE you were going to say that..." and I never know what to do. Do I protest? (Methinks she protests too much.) Do I let it go?

My T told me a trick, but I haven't figured out exactly how to use it yet. It goes like this, "No... that's what YOU think. I think..." and then go on to say what I was going to say.

[emotion overload]

keepfighting,
That is a really traumatic and difficult thing to go thru.  I dont know your sister, but I know that some people want to try to "fix" the situation rather than just listen.

I can't imagine how difficult it is for you to find the line between giving her freedom and keeping her safe.  I have a 7 year old, and it occupies my mind too much, and I haven't had a tragedy (per se) that has involved her. 

I hope that your daughter is healing as well as can be expected.  You don't mention her age now, but my brother had a palate expansion and extensive dental work at age 18.  (Thanks to uBPDm, who couldn't be bothered to do it when the procedure was not nearly so painful).  I know from his experience that it isn't an ideal time to have extensive dental/jaw work done, as you are off to college at that point.  Fortunately, he's healed and hopefully ok with it today (he's in his 30's now). 

So I know what you mean about people telling you how you feel, and I am hoping I'm not doing that in this post.  I don't mean to compare what your daughter went thru to my own (or my brother's experience). 

I wish your daughter all the luck and health in the world. 

[keepfighting]

eo, thanks for sharing your brother's experience. Hearing that others have gone through similar things and that they are doing well now is actually comforting - DD sucked up that kind of personal stories in the first months after her accident. I'm sorry your brother had to have the more painful treatment because of earlier neglect by your mom.

DD is 10 now, 1st anniversary of the accident coming up. We're very proud of how brave she's been in handling it. She's a tough little girl! We've been very careful in letting her deal with it in her own way and at her own pace. For example, we discussed if/how and when she wanted to revisit the place of the accident. DH and I also needed to see the place - together and individually - but that was part of our learning to deal with it. She didn't go for months and then she went together with one of her best friends (who had been a witness to the accident). She told us later that they'd been and we could see that she had laid her 'ghost' to rest and was no longer scared of the place.

The emergency dentist turned out to be associated with the university dental clinic (works/teaches there one day a week). He personally made sure that the best trauma dentist took her on as a patient. That was so kind of him.

There are also legal issues surrounding the accident. About a month later we started asking for  legal advice and now DD's got a lawyer looking after her interests so at least she won't be saddled with having to pay herself for whatever treatments will be necessary. That's a relief.

sacha - your DD is very wise in her observation; what kind of s****y  words was your ex trying to put into your mouths! Sheesh!

I must try your Ts trick next time, see if it works (...and if I can remember it on time and not three days after the conversation like I usually do ). Thanks for sharing!

[Kizzie]

Hey Keepfighting - I must admit to feeling a bit wistful when  I read your post about what you've done (and not done) to help your daughter and yourselves through her accident.  I was thinking "Oh to have had parents like this."  Not to be narcissistic, I actually hope you will feel complimented that you are doing everything so well - letting your DD go back to where she had the accident when she was ready and in a way that helped her - wow!  If there were a clapping smiley I would have posted several of them.

With regard to your Sis not listening, that was very invalidating of what was and continues to be a deeply felt event in your lives. My M has Narcissistic Personality Disorder so she's bad for this kind of thing. I do much like what Sasha suggested, I stop her, tell her she is not hearing what I'm trying to tell her and reiterate my point/feeling until she stops telling me what I should feel or see's what I am saying.  Now she usually gives up because she isn't getting anywhere rather than truly listening or understanding but that's OK, I have insisted on not being invalidated and that's good for me.

With regard to the upcoming anniversary, is there something you could do to help make it more positive?  Coming up to a year after I had surgery and chemo for cancer my H and I started to feel that awful sense of dread you talk about (and we learned later that's common). So we chose a really nice restaurant in the Rockies with an incredible view and food, and on the anniversary of my diagnosis we looked back on the year that followed as we sat together and had this amazing dinner with an amazing view.   It was a way of remembering/ acknowledging a very tough time in a pleasant and life-affirming environment.  It took some of the pain and fear of those memories away by layering some positives memories on top if that makes sense.   I don't know if there's something like that that you could all plan together but it might be helpful in processing things.

[keepfighting]

With regard to the upcoming anniversary, is there something you could do to help make it more positive?  Coming up to a year after I had surgery and chemo for cancer my H and I started to feel that awful sense of dread you talk about (and we learned later that's common). So we chose a really nice restaurant in the Rockies with an incredible view and food, and on the anniversary of my diagnosis we looked back on the year that followed as we sat together and had this amazing dinner with an amazing view.   It was a way of remembering/ acknowledging a very tough time in a pleasant and life-affirming environment.  It took some of the pain and fear of those memories away by layering some positives memories on top if that makes sense.   I don't know if there's something like that that you could all plan together but it might be helpful in processing things.

That is a very nice idea. I'll discuss it with my family this weekend. Thank you for sharing the story of your anniversary - I cannot imagine what you must have been through but this is a wonderful way of giving credit to both the feelings of dread and pain as well as those of hope and strength.

Also thank you for the compliment.  (I feel a bit embarassed now)

[schrödinger's cat]

I want to second kizzie's compliment. I too thought "wow, if my mother had done something like that...!" You gave your daughter what she needed. That isn't to be taken for granted, as we're uniquely placed to know.

Your kid had this traumatic thing happen to her and you validated her, you let her heal at her own pace, you respected her wishes (sleeping in her room when she needed it, letting her revisit the scene once she was ready, letting her choose who was to accompany her). And it would surprise me, from what I've read, if you'd ever given her those typical "buck up and pull yourself together" pep talks. That is NOT a normal parental reaction to trauma. It's something huge and wonderful.

[pam]

Most people's advice or comments reflect what they think or feel. Including my own. I don't think we can help it, you know? Sometimes we get it right but other times we just can't. But, in some cases, where it should be kinda obvious what is going on, a person should have some kind of accurate empathy! Sounds like your sister either wasn't really listening to you, or she has no imagination to be able to put herself in your shoes. Of course the accident and it's after-effects are affecting your wanting to keep her extra safe. It's also good that you recognize in yourself that it's a response to the accident. Shows you are self-aware and so you have a much better chance of doing the right thing for your daughter imo.

My GrM used to tell me how i felt too. Even something as simple and meaningless as the temperature of the room or whether I liked a certain food. I'd say I'm cold and she'd say Oh no, it's warm in here. How annoying. At the time (25 yrs ago) my boundaries were so weak that I'd actually doubt myself and wonder if I was wrong. I wish I could go back in time and say "Look, old woman, I have my own body and you have yours. I have my own feelings and sensations and you have yours. Separate from each other." Knowing her, that would've offended her, lol. 

[Butterfly]

You're such a great mom to help your daughter through in such a loving way. It's terrible to be invalidated.

I can only imagine how that must feel as a mother doing your best under most trying circumstances. uPD mum told me once straightforward 'you don't feel that way' to which I said yes I do and you can't tell me how to feel. It shocked me it came out of my mouth and this was before OOTF but was so stunned she felt free to tell me I don't feel a certain way.

[Kizzie]

Your kid had this traumatic thing happen to her and you validated her, you let her heal at her own pace, you respected her wishes (sleeping in her room when she needed it, letting her revisit the scene once she was ready, letting her choose who was to accompany her). And it would surprise me, from what I've read, if you'd ever given her those typical "buck up and pull yourself together" pep talks. That is NOT a normal parental reaction to trauma. It's something huge and wonderful.

It really is huge and wonderful considering how we were parented. I did/do feel wistful but now I'm thinking along the lines of "How can I turn this positive, caring, supportive approach toward my younger self and help her work through her trauma?"  As Katz points out, a lot of the elements I think our IC need are there in your example of how you dealt with your DD's accident KF - respect, choice, voice, support, caring ......  The trick is in giving it to ourselves now. 

[keepfighting]

Update:

We'll go on a family trip to commemorate the anniversary of the accident - something fun for the kids and relaxing for us. Also, I am going to buy some flowers and write a thank you note to the emergency dentist. His concern for DD's wellbeing and his role in getting her to have the best specialist care in the area was like a ray of sunshine in a very dark period in our lives. DD had written and drawn a thank you card for him a few weeks after the accident and invited him to come to her restaurant once she's grown up and a chef  (...only now she's changed her plans and wants to become an astronaut instead  ), but this one would be from me and DH.

I did/do feel wistful but now I'm thinking along the lines of "How can I turn this positive, caring, supportive approach toward my younger self and help her work through her trauma?"  As Katz points out, a lot of the elements I think our IC need are there in your example of how you dealt with your DD's accident KF - respect, choice, voice, support, caring ......  The trick is in giving it to ourselves now. 

....the trick before that is feeling worthy of warmth and kindness and understanding. I know my IC is, but I'm having trouble allowing myself to feel it. Shame is a very hard thing to overcome - but luckily we can all support each other in our efforts to get there...

[Kizzie]

Update:

We'll go on a family trip to commemorate the anniversary of the accident - something fun for the kids and relaxing for us. Also, I am going to buy some flowers and write a thank you note to the emergency dentist. His concern for DD's wellbeing and his role in getting her to have the best specialist care in the area was like a ray of sunshine in a very dark period in our lives. DD had written and drawn a thank you card for him a few weeks after the accident and invited him to come to her restaurant once she's grown up and a chef  (...only now she's changed her plans and wants to become an astronaut instead  ), but this one would be from me and DH.

....the trick before that is feeling worthy of warmth and kindness and understanding. I know my IC is, but I'm having trouble allowing myself to feel it. Shame is a very hard thing to overcome - but luckily we can all support each other in our efforts to get there...

Oh how lovely KeepFighting! I'm happy for you and your family and a bit wistful again at the same time but I hope the trip is wonderful.  This really is about your DD learning to process trauma/difficult emotions and I think you have definitely put all the pieces in place that will help with that now and which she will take forward into adulthood (when she becomes an astronaut - so cute). 

You're so right, the trick is how to learn to do it for yourself now as well, for each of us really -- to feel deserving of the same care and attention. It's a little different given it's our IC, but with so many bright, creative and determined members. we'll figure it out  . 

[pam]

I was reading the last posts and was confused at first--I thought IC was Inner Critic, but I see now it's Inner Child...should've known that. 

So what can we use for the abbreviation for Inner Critic? I have future plans to start a thread about the Inner Critic. My idea of how to deal with it is different than Walker's and just wanted to share it sometime soon here if I can get my brain organized in case anyone else wanted to try something different too. I haven't gotten rid of him (mine's male--internalized father) all the way, but he is a lot quieter than he used to be. 

[Badmemories]

@Pam
I'd like to read more on the inner critic...

OK so in My mind I am trying to teach MY grand Daughter to express feelings. To talk about how She is feeling. Her Normal route is to have a HISSY fit when things don't go her way. She is 5.

So she is coloring and goes out of the lines. She throws a fit. So I soothe her and say ARE You feeling frustrated? Then I explain, " Honey it will take You practice to color in the lines to color in the lines YOU need fine motor skills, and Your body has not developed them yet, but You will get better as you get older."
Or
She is crying for a candy bar.( of course I am monitoring her food) I say "Honey are You feeling hungry?  I will peel and Orange for You ( or make lunch or whatever.)
Or
She has a friend who is autistic. They still play together... and mostly get along. it is hard to understand her speech. sometimes GD tells me she doesn't like her because of_____
And I try to teach her that we are all different and the girl is sweet. Don't YOU feel like you should help her? "How do You think she is feeling?"

So at her age I am teaching he various feelings to draw on to express herself.

Now in My Childhood I WAS NOT ALLOWED TO EXPRESS FEELINGS! I was not taught any feelings except glad and Mad. Describing My FOO I think feelings were VOID for lack of a better word to say. No affection, not much caring except for the basics, food on the table, clean house, clean clothes, etc.

So I am wondering that IF someone tells YOU how YOU are feeling... Do Any of You who are offended because of the Family of Origin?  Perhaps in a normal household people who care about us are trying to understand by saying "You must feel...?" which seems positive to me.

uPD mum told me once straightforward 'you don't feel that way' to which I said yes I do and you can't tell me how to feel. 

My GrM used to tell me how i felt too. Even something as simple and meaningless as the temperature of the room or whether I liked a certain food. I'd say I'm cold and she'd say Oh no, it's warm in here. How annoying. At the time (25 yrs ago) my boundaries were so weak that I'd actually doubt myself and wonder if I was wrong.

Anyway, I was talking to en sis about it and telling her how DH and I feel quite over protective of her and still need to fight the urge to forbid her quite normal activities for kids her age (I'd like one of those bowls that the squirrel Sandy in the Spongebob episodes wears to feel better about DDs safety  ). Then my sis kept saying: "Oh, you're just feeling anxious because she is you 'baby' and you don't want her to grow up."

I tried telling her that this dread we feel is completely different from how we felt before the accident and has nothing to do with my baby growing up but she kept insisting that that was what I felt. I stopped trying - she  was so insistant that she knew my feelings better than I did that I decided it was better to let it slip and change the subject...

Even though she probably meant well, I soooo hate it when people are trying to tell me how I feel. Just listen!

So, in a positive way I am trying to teach My GrD how to express feelings. The Abusers in Our lives used it in a negative way. (see quotes above) I think using it in a negative way is Gaslighting! I feel like when Your sister said what she said she was not validating your true feelings. She was telling YOU what She thought You were thinking. Under certain situations that might be OK IF the person is then willing to listen to what You are saying... but Like You say she was not listening! A caring person might try and guess what You are feeling... but they are just trying to get some impute on what You are really feeling.

I was a successful hairstylist for 22 years. I listened to patrons describe all kinds of tragedy's. Honestly I could not understand their feeling unless I had experienced it. No one can. Listening Nonjudgmental did help them to heal.When My brother committed suicide, my mother went to a group  called Compassionate Friends for Parents of children who had died young. I could understand the lose I felt as a sibling... but never as a parent.

Keepfighting, I think You are doing a great job with this tragedy. You are working with it and in the process You are making Your family stronger. You are helping You daughter grow and learn to deal with the "bad things that come their way." in a positive way! I am sure You are talking to you D about how she is feeling.

KEEPFIGHTING MOM OF THE YEAR! 
I am having fun with the marquee feature! lol

[Kizzie]

Hey Pam (and everyone) - I added ICr and OCr to the list of acronyms for Inner and Out Critic, and left IC for Inner Child - context will also help us figure out if someone uses IC for Inner Critic.

I did not know we had a marquee button BadMemories lol!  It sounds like you are doing a great job of trying to help your GD express her feelings, and better yet give her positive attention which was sadly lacking in most of our homes.  Lots of negative attention or no attention but the positives - pretty much missing.

Sometimes I think people will dangle a feeling out there they would like for us to have as a misguided way of trying to help us get past something difficult.  Most of the time in our case, FOO telling us how we feel is a whole control thing - gaslighting, minimizing, invalidating and just a general lack of interest in and respect for us as people. 

And we know it, we feel it in our bodies that we are being dismissed, put down, controlled.  My NPDM would just talk right over top of me as though I hadn't even spoken - I felt invisible and I would shut down. And eventually when I tried to talk to anyone about anything consequential, I froze.   I quite literally had to take back my voice in my adult years.   So you go Grandma, help your GD figure out her feelings and express them is a healthy, secure way!