Self medicating

[Kizzie]

I wanted to ask here since we are talking about self-medicating what members think about discussing illegal substances?  Most forums do not allow it, but I am willing as long as the purpose of the discussion is to explore the potential positive/negative effects or our experiences with these substances, but not recommend a drug or use the forum to sell/buy drugs.  Those posts would be removed immediately.

Why I am interested in talking about this is because:

- many of us DO self-medicate and often at our peril so I think we need to bring it into the light and talk about it rather than pretend we don't use
- drugs such as cannabis which are legal/illegal depending on where you live may have actual medicinal effects (see the link Globetrotter posted)

We are growing as a community so it's probably time we look at this and see what direction we want to take.  We can always have some discussion and if we're divided, take a vote as to which way to go.   We may have different (and strong) views about this so please be tolerant and respectful of others.

[globetrotter]

It's a part of the real world. Not discussing it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
(Isn't that part of the problem we're recovering from?)
Curious why other forums would not permit it?
In fact, if we help guide those who need help w addiction, all the better.

[Kizzie]

I guess it's the whole appearance or credibility thing and not wanting to be accused of promoting drug/alcohol use - not sure GT. I posted at another site asking if anyone knew about the use of MDMA in psychotherapy (i.e., medical versus recreational use) and it was removed and I was warned - can't quite remember what the warning said other than we weren't allowed to talk about illegal substances. 

There are a lot of clinical trials going on to look at substances such as MDMA in therapy that I would really like to talk about (see links below), but thought it important to ask how members feel about whether we're good with discussing it openly here.

See this link for further info  http://www.maps.org/ on the use of psychedelic drugs with PTSD in particular.

I actually applied to participate in a trial in Canada using MDMA for PTSD and got through the first interview but haven't heard anything since so must see if the study is going forward.

[globetrotter]

Such an interesting topic, though!

Im a bit skewed in thinking, living where it's legal, so can see where it could be more of an issue if misconstrued as promotion..

[schrödinger's cat]

I wouldn't mind it if people discussed things here. It's not like anyone would campaign for drug use. Saying "I do this-and-that and it has this-and-that effect on me personally", why not? Sometimes CPTSD limits our options to the point where all we can do is choose the lesser of two evils. If you're crossing an ocean in a steam ship, and your fuel runs out, you chop up the furniture if you have to. That doesn't mean you're going to keep on doing that once you reach a safe harbour.

What about recovering addicts? Is reading about drug use making things more difficult? I'm not one, so I honestly don't know.

[Finding My Voice]

I agree with allowing discussion of it under the common-sense guidelines that Kizzie suggested.

[Kizzie]

Tks for the feedback GT, Katz and FMV, appreciate it.

Recovering addicts - good point Katz.  I think talking about alcohol would probably reinforce reasons not to drink (i.e., drinking to numb yourself leads to addiction and additional problems beyond CPTSD).  In the case of drugs such as MDMA or MJ, however, might it invite some people to try it on their own as a form of numbing rather than to treat symptoms under a doctor's care?  If we do green light it we'd definitely want to have some good guidelines around this issue FMV, I agree.   

OK, well let's see if anyone else wants to add a comment or two and go from there.

[Badmemories]

I think that part of the problem with CPTSD is the addiction problem. I see no problem discussing our addictions. I think these discussions should be vague. Not something like herion helped MY _____. I agree that the promotion of it is not helpful. especially concerning Illegal drugs such as herion,crack, meth etc. IF someone WAS addicted to these drugs, it might be helpful on HOW the person got off of these bad drugs.

Since Marijuana is a legal drug in SOME STATES  used for Medical reasons, I don't see no reason NOT to talk about that drug. How it is helping Us with CPTSD It would be helpful IF those discussions were on a how this has helped me kind of theme and what effects it has done to help me with problems.

I don't think any conversation should be allowed on how to get the drugs, except applying for the permit for medical marijuana. ETC.

I have also read studies on LSD... I am familiar with the drug world (i smoke pot occasionally) I haven't heard about being able to get LSD for years! I did have a book by Paul Linus ? on spelling he thought it helped with many diseases. (he discovered LSD)

[sunkitten]

I don't take illegal drugs, but have been prescribed opiates for 10 or so years for my chronic back pain, and Lyrica (pregabalin) to help with my fibromyalgia. When I was in school the psychiatrist I was seeing had me on a combination of Zoloft and clonazepam (Klonopin I guess is the name used in the US for it?) -- the clonazepam then was to combat the restless legs syndrome which was exacerbated by Zoloft. Now my doctor prescribes clonazepam to help my anxiety, the lowest dose possible and I break the tablets in half.

I don't drink much, except for the occasional beer, because addiction problems run in my family. My late brother was an alcoholic. Even though alcohol is a depressant, it makes me less socially anxious and it would be far too tempting to have more than one drink... so I'm strict about using it.

The one addiction I do have is cigarettes. I've noticed that when my anxiety gets strong or I'm in more physical pain than usual, I smoke more, which considering I have asthma is not good. And of course it does nothing to help the CPTSD.

[Sasha2727]

im curious if anyone has ever had a DR. or therapist tell them that they binge on substances as not a medicating thing but as a self harm thing? I have been looking up a lot on traumatic reeinacting and substance abuse and I do think I have always methotically went on binges to self harm. In my case I would go to the bar and use my sixth sense to find that " right person " I would then obtain the " stuff " and go back home to be alone to use it. I was private about it and most people would have never suspected that I was capable of doing it actually. I always happned after an extended period of time bottleing up emotions then the cycle would start, my wheels would start spinning and my thoughts would get shameful and start to race and then BAM it was off to the races. once I was done I would have a day or two of crying and panic and then go about my business.

Also I tend to go through bouts of over eating and bouts of some strange other more private urges, that I tend to use to relieve tension and anxiety, nothing over the top just some self love to put it the only way I can. however I really feel the traumatic reanctment thing could have to do with a lot of this stuff? any thoughts??

[LONDON UK]

I grow my own cannabis and choose the 'kush' strains which are good for bringing me down and helping me sleep, I use it instead of pharma pills....I hate alcohol, makes me feel ill.....

[AndyT]

Self Medicating as a general principle is difficult, and so many variables that I hesitate to say much. I have tried to avoid all the meds and alcohol as I found the side affects delayed my 'trigger identification' process. One problem with illegal stuff, is the inherent avoidant behaviours that run counter to treatment. It can help but I guess it is down to the individual. 

[Badmemories]

Well, I tried at least last week to Not smoke pot! I thin that was somewhat of a downfall for me. Smoking Pot seems to help me settle down My hyperactivity and concentrate more on what I am going through.  I seem to be more aware of it also!

I did take My adderall though, and I hate the Jag and comedown on it! 

Not sure on what to do about it... a sixty year old women smoking pot? 

[Kizzie]

Sasha - I have not heard that taking drugs or drinking is a conscious form of self-harm unless perhaps it's a deliberate overdose. Is your use intended as self-harm or is it to numb yourself as relief from stress and anxiety? And I'm curious as to what is mean by traumatic reenactment - that sounds interesting, can you tell us more? 

Hey SunKitten - I used to get RLS when I was undergoing chemo - it's awful isn't it?  For anyone who hasn't had it, it's like you get these creepy feelings in your legs and you have to move them, no matter how tired you are. Mine was so bad the first two times I had it I ended up cleaning house in the middle of the night. Cleaning house is bad enough but when it's the middle of the night and everyone else is sleeping ......  Anyway, we figured out eventually that it was the steroids in my chemo cocktail so the doc took it out.  I'm with you on the drinking alcohol thing, I really got into it last year into this spring, but have since quit as I was heading toward a full blown addiction. 

London/BadMemories - I'm still considering trying pot as it is legal in a nearby state. My main reservation is that I will get into it the way I was with alcohol and it will stall my recovery in some way.  Still mulling things over - would be nice to have something for arthritis pain and for sleeping (currently use a prescribed meds for both, one of which is really hard on the stomach). 

All - it seems like there is a desire to be able to talk about self-medicating openly so let's carry on, just make sure we're not recommending to others that they try an illegal substance or drink alcohol as a way to deal with CPTSD symptoms, and that we don't talk about buying or selling. 

[spryte]

I think that there's a lot of healing power in some substances, and they've been used forever in other cultures. My boyfriend and I have talked about this a lot and we think that the biggest problems started when so many of these substances (MJ, hallucinogens, etc) became divorced from the healing rituals that they were attached to. Using something like MDMA in the context of therapy would be reintroducing the "healing ritual" to the use of the substance, and would therefore give the experience a kind of direction rather than just getting lost in the "experience" of the substance.

I am fascinated by the use of Ayahuasca in other countries for this very purpose. In fact, they are using it in more clinical settings in places where it's legal to help people break addictions.

All of that being said, I have used pot in the past to self-medicate. Numbing. Definitely. Thankfully, it not being terribly addictive, and me being ever the people pleasure back then...when I started dating someone who didn't like it, I quit. It wasn't until then that I realized how much I'd been self-medicating with it.

But, I LIKE it, and used in a reasonable and responsible way, it does help me relax when nothing else will. I am ever, ever grateful that I don't seem to metabolize alchohol well because I am almost certain that if I did, I'd be an alcoholic. Much more socially acceptable, I have many more friends who go out drinking to excess, much cheaper and easier to get. I don't actually metabolize many drugs well actually.

I have used MDMA. I want to use it for therapy purposes in the future. I think current health issues have made metabolizing it a problem and it just...stopped working. The handful of times that I took it, the biggest thing that I walked away from the experience was this...

I got a glimpse of who I could be without all of the self-protection. I felt like I got a glimpse of the "real me". It does smash all the self-erected walls and boundaries. (I don't know where the line is in "advocating" a substance Kizzie, so if this is too far, feel free to edit or let me know).

Sasha - I'm an emotional eater, and my therapist has suggested that some of my addiction issues with food, could be a form of self-harm because I do it, even knowing that I'm going to be in pain later (eating stuff that I shouldn't because I have sensitivities to it) In addition to that, also...

...

and bouts of some strange other more private urges, that I tend to use to relieve tension and anxiety, nothing over the top just some self love to put it the only way I can. however I really feel the traumatic reanctment thing could have to do with a lot of this stuff? any thoughts??

Yes. Not sure exactly what you're referring to, but I am an emotional and physical masochist. I've spent a LOT of time picking that apart, connecting it to things in my past. For me, indulging in safe physical masochistic stuff is both anxiety relieving, "blowing off steam" and re-routes serious urges that I have had to hurt myself in other ways that were definitely not healthy. I've definitely wondered about the re-traumatizing thing and there has been a lot written about the healthy aspects of exploring certain things in the context of an "alternative" lifestyle or "scenes" in a BDSM context. (I'm happy to talk about any of that if anyone is interested in starting a new topic, but it can get pretty...ahem...personal.) I've used several aspects of it along my healing journey.