spreading the word

[sanmagic7]

i belong to an online emdr clinicians' support network, comprised of therapists from around the world.  from time to time, i've mentioned c-ptsd, but have had little response.

today i noticed that in the past few days there were several posts re: how to treat clients with both c-ptsd and with dissociation.  there were some interesting comments, ranging from sticking to proven theories to more individual ways of working with a client.

i couldn't help myself and jumped in.  too many times i've read here about how emdr clinicians have failed people on this forum, which has broken my heart.  so, i decided to post to them some of what i've learned here from you about what has worked and what has failed to work from emdr practitioners.

just wanted you all to know that you are being heard, and that i hope there will be a difference in how these clinicians look at c-ptsd survivors (i also hope i don't get kicked out for being too out of line - lol!).   i do sincerely believe in emdr as a wonderful tool to help with trauma-related symptoms, but also felt, just as sincerely, that some of the people in the field just don't get it.  (there were a lot of references to this and that article, etc. but too many didn't acknowledge the fact that many of us fall outside the curve and need creative, individual approaches).

so, for what it's worth, we're now out there in a more real way.  i just hope some changes will be made, and more of you will find some relief and healing.  love and hugs to all.

[Deep Blue]

 

Thanks for sharing San!

[Estella]

 

[sanmagic7]

thanks to both of you for that validation, deep blue and estella.

i have so far gotten 2 responses from therapists who read my post.  one was shocked that what i'd said was necessary, and she was very upset that therapists don't take the proper care with this population.  i thanked her for her validation.

the other said she had a did client who thanked her for going slowly, and that it was important to have client collaboration during a session.  i responded that clinician intuition is also important because often we as clients don't even know what we need because we're so lost.  just thought i'd throw in a seed for thought to her. 

so, thank you for the thanks.  i was very anxious about speaking up about this, but glad i got some validating feedback from at least a couple of t's.  we'll see if anyone else responds in the future.  in the meantime, we're all in this together.  love and hugs all around.

[Blueberry]

Thanks for spreading the word, san! 

[Eyessoblue]

That's great SanMagic, I too am a big fan of emdr and it has benefited me hugely. As you know I'm from the uk and things are a little different over here, mainly the problem lies within our nhs where we can see a emdr therapist we are given a time limit of 6-12 weeks which is fine for some people probably more with ptsd, but as we know cptsd is so much more complex and that amount of time for me and a lot of other people I've heard from is just not long enough, personally after my emdr sessions I really needed some psychotherapy to help me to understand and move forward, I had 3 weeks worth then the therapist was on holiday for 2 weeks then off sick for another two at which point I was told I was going to be discharged from her and referred to an anxiety clinic for 6-12 weeks, that was 10 weeks ago and I'm still waiting....
During this time I've now developed more issues as the waiting for help is so painful when I feel desperate for answers for things and help moving forward, I feel like I've just been forgotten.
The nhs in the uk has severe financial problems and lack of staff etc and I am hugely greatful for being able to get any support at all, but I just don't think the mental health services in the uk understand how discharging people before they are ready is so unhelpful, I know if I could have just worked through it all in one go I would be so much further forward in the long run, but yet again cptsd isn't really recognised in the uk yet, although my therapist says I most definitely have it she still has to treat it as PTSD until guidelines are changed which yet again is ridiculous and people aren't getting the help that they really need so are just going round in circles within the mental health in the nhs.
Once cptsd is officially recognised I'm hoping more nhs staff can train in emdr and offer longer and more thorough services for people.

[Elphanigh]

I am so glad that you are sharing this information, San. As someone that emdr has truly helped I am grateful that my therapist is aware of thing that people with Cptsd really need, it makes a world of difference. I am grateful you are trying to reach other therapists with this information

[Kizzie]

    Yay San! I am someone who had a bad experience with it so tk you so much for weighing in with your colleagues    Great example of how we can spark change for ourselves 

[sanmagic7]

had 2 more responses from emdr practitioners, both agreeing with me, and also thanking me for bringing this up.  this shows me that there are a few out there who are compassionate, willing to learn, and truly do want the best for their clients.  it's a small start, but hopefully there are even more who just didn't take the time to reply to my post.

thank you esb, el, and kizzie, for your support.  i really appreciate it.  hopefully, some eyes will be opened and some ears will hear.  i guess that's all we can do.  you've all given me the strength to go ahead with this.  love and hugs to you.

[Kizzie]

What I found problematic with EMDR is that the trauma I suffered was akin to "death by a thousand cuts" (covert NPD FOO), more than a number of distinct events I could easily bring up during a session.  I've often wondered if this might have been what caused the 2-3 day EFs; that is, the EMDR tapped into a flowing river of less obvious trauma versus distinct traumatic events and it was simply too much?      

Also, the T had not taught me to ground myself but even if she had I suspect it would still have been too much.  Even talk therapy was difficult in this respect because it was covert emotional abuse I went through - hard to articulate until you have the language to break down the abusive behaviours and name them  (which I learned at Out of the FOG and through books thankfully). 

It's important for EMDR practitioners/researchers to look into though.  Our guest blogger Leslie Browning went through almost a year of EFs due to EMDR before she called it quits which seems to indicate there are some factors which influence the success of this approach and that needs to be identified and explored.

Anyway, glad you are talking with your colleagues. 

[Blueberry]

Interesting, Kizzie.

My current therapist decided against EMDR very quickly in my case. He considered various methods, he tried out something called Brainspotting which is apparently an off-shoot of EMDR. He tried it out on a totally non-traumatic topic and decided  I didn't take to it very well somehow. I remember that myself.

EMDR would 'flood' me too much he said. Idk about EMDR myself but I do trust my T. In my country EMDR is known for being good for PTSD, and an all-round efficient method, but not always for CPTSD.

"death by a thousand cuts" - maybe like the T in inpatient therapy who decided to confront me with something and brought up 15 topics within the space of a few minutes, and then wondered at my extreme visceral reactions? Some of these 15 topics were undoubtedly less obvious trauma, the kinds that some Ts dismiss while they look for the 'real' trauma as I posted elsewhere recently.

With this remark "the other said she had a did client who thanked her for going slowly, and that it was important to have client collaboration during a session.  i responded that clinician intuition is also important because often we as clients don't even know what we need because we're so lost", I'm really impressed to hear of a T who found client collaboration important. i've met too many who didn't really see that, who trusted their own 'intuition' too much. Often I knew what I didn't need e.g. and some Ts decided that was exactly what I did need. After a lot of T and self-work, you do have some ideas yourself!

I think it's great that you're discussing these types of things with other Ts, san! It's good for Ts to know what can actually all go wrong if they don't listen to us and don't take those of us seriously who can't work (well) with a specific method.

[sanmagic7]

kizzie, unfortunately, i'm afraid that as therapists, we really haven't been fully trained in what composes trauma.  i know i wasn't (and i've been doing emdr therapy for over 25 yrs.!), never heard of narc abuse till i was investigating it for myself in the past few years.  one t actually did mention the same thing - and the fact that c-ptsd has only in this past week come up as a topic on our forum shows how very ignorant we've all been.

death by a thousand cuts, indeed.  the idea of trauma being HUGE events has been plastered into everyone's mind.  i've argued a long time ago (onto deaf ears, i'm afraid) that what may not be traumatic for one kid, may be extremely so for the next.  they've divided these up into big T and small t traumas.  someone once posted that her client hadn't suffered any childhood trauma - her parents just didn't acknowledge her feelings, a common occurrence.  i nearly choked when i read that!

yes, i don't doubt that tapping into one thing for you may have unleashed a torrent of related events, possibly not consciously known by you.  stabilization and grounding are really important factors during prep time, and to have skipped that for you was all part of your t's incautious proceeding with you.  very sorry, kizzie, that you've gone thru that.  it must have been gruesome.

blueberry, i'm very glad for you that your t recognized that emdr might not be right for you.  i do think collaboration with the client is of the utmost importance, but as i said, sometimes we as clients don't know the answers to the questions, or we don't know what questions to ask, and we're often expected to.  an intuitive t, in the manner of which i was speaking, would sense this and find another angle to come at the issue.

they would intuitively proceed with caution, patience, and very small steps.  unfortunately, again, many t's don't have that kind of creative intuition.  they know what they were taught, they read the literature, and they swear by the research.   i can't tell you how many times i've posted to t's asking questions about their clients when i've responded that they need to go slower and break down the issue into teeny tiny bits cuz it sounds like the client is overwhelmed and has become 'paralyzed'.  this was even before i was aware of c-ptsd!

ugh - it's just frustrating to me, and to hear the horror stories of people here breaks my heart.  i sincerely hope that c-ptsd comes up more often now that the ice has been broken, and they begin asking questions pertaining to helping clients suffering from it by name.  that would bring me no end of happiness.

thanks again for your input. 

[Blueberry]

an intuitive t, in the manner of which i was speaking, would sense this and find another angle to come at the issue.

they would intuitively proceed with caution, patience, and very small steps.  unfortunately, again, many t's don't have that kind of creative intuition.  they know what they were taught, they read the literature, and they swear by the research.   i can't tell you how many times i've posted to t's asking questions about their clients when i've responded that they need to go slower and break down the issue into teeny tiny bits cuz it sounds like the client is overwhelmed and has become 'paralyzed'.  this was even before i was aware of c-ptsd!

Yes! You're right there too of course. I also have experienced too much time with Ts who thought a lot of their own intuition but it wasn't really intuition, certainly not a creative type. Then when it didn't work for me, they'd say "Oh, well Blueberry, obviously you don't want to heal, goodbye." Or would tell me I obviously have BPD. (Their intuition told them that??? ). So, yeah, I'm telling you what you already know. Sorry.

[Elphanigh]

I am sorry that you hav broth and awful experiences on this front. San, thank you for bringing more awareness to this. Even if it is just a few responses and a few more people that have read it you have affected some sort of change. That is so important for all of us.

I honestly think EMDR is only affective for me because we backed way off and didn't come to it for about 6 months, even when we did we rarely do just a full session of it because the way my traumas are interwoven it does flood me like Kizzie and Blueberry both mentioned. It is easy to get flooded when there are literally thousands of wounds, and practitioners would have to be very creative and sensitive in how they adapted emdr to that. It certainly seems to me that just straight, traditional emdr would not work well for Cptsd