An ongoing concern borderlining on paranoia

[Phoebes]

I'm not sure if this goes here.. since learning about NPD and all, I have heard over and over that malignant NPD's will go to great lengths to damage your relationships behind your back. I believe my Nm has done this in the past and ongoing. But, I have no idea to what degree ever since I have been NC. Part of the reason I went so strict NC is because she did exactly this with her new H and fam.

I feel like a foreshadowing was years ago. I went on a two week trip out of the country and I had let my Nm know. When I got home there were multiple messages on my machine increasing in anger and hysteria that I "wasn't calling 'your mother' back" and how "rude" I was and how she "didn't raise me to be so rude." Then come to find out she had called a distant friend of mine who didn't know my Nm was this way and told her a sob story about how she had called and called and was worried about me and wondered if my friend had seen or heard from me. My friend had no clue, but when she told me the story she was basically saying my mother was so worried and maybe next time you can give her your # where you'll be. 

Now, fast forward a few years..after the gaslighting stories and reasons I went NC, I have felt (maybe projected) distance from certain friends. A couple of important ones. I'm afraid to ask them if they heard from my Nm and I have not told them the situation. I try to just not worry about it, but sometimes I do get really paranoid and wonder if I'm one of the ones whose relationships are getting ruined by my malignant N.

[SE7]

Hi, I think it can't hurt to at least find out from your friends if your Nm contacted them. It would at least ease your mind to know. And you could always explain to them what kind of mother you have - that she's not the typical normal mother so they understand.

I don't know if my situation is any similar, but I have a deep fear & suspicion of my NPDf & BPDm, esp. because of the shenanigans they have pulled on me in the past, like the N hiring a PI to stalk me, both of them letting me go homeless to teach me a lesson, and my N's verbally abusive rages when I was living with them after I lost everything. My m is love-bombing me like crazy right now, trying to get me to have her over my place, and I already set a boundary that I do NOT want any family members in my place - however, now that I think of it, the boundary was only really set with the Nf - and I don't know how to quite tell the Bm, as it will make her feel rejected.

I also feel a sense of fear (maybe it could be called paranoia just because of how these people have treated me, so if it's that it would be well-founded!) I have fears that if I call her back, I will get entrapped by something she says or asks me, which could make things worse for me (I have good reason for this) - but then if I DON'T respond to her at all, I fear their covert manipulations behind the scenes could also make things worse for me. There NEVER seems to be a "right" way to deal with these people, except total no contact, but I am under obligation because they are paying some of my bills. Part of the narcissistic abuse in my FOO is extreme financial control & manipulation so that's how I got caught in their web. They incapacitated me emotionally and I finally broke down after too many roller coasters, which then put me further in need & under their control.

My Nf is a master guilt-tripper, called me entitled, spoiled, etc. (as a child I was called selfish & lazy) - even though they are the ones with all that money can buy while I live like a pauper. He loves to guilt-trip me like I'm a bad daughter, because apparently I was supposed to 'take care of' them in their old age, even though they are just fine, and I am the one who always has all the problems. Since I have nothing to actually give them, I suppose what they want is constant adoration & affection, which I just can't give.

Based on how I saw my malignant Nf treat me, I absolutely know that they are capable of damaging our relationships with others behind the scenes. They will stalk (or hire others to track), and they certainly will triangulate if you have a sibling (mine is their GC, and he is hopelessly enmeshed with my Nf, especially financially - GC has no backbone whatsoever when it comes to the N). My sibling used to be my best friend - but he decided I guess it was more lucrative for him to fawn to the Ns, and it is basically 3 against 1 now.

So if there is any degree of paranoia, we are justified in that feeling - this is what I believe a "malignant" narcissist would do. And I'm noticing that maybe how I feel around my FOO is why I feel this fear in general, that gets projected to so many other areas of my life. It's a feeling in general that everyone is out to get me. How can I feel safe in a world where I am afraid of my own family?

Sorry I'm going off about my own situation ... but I thank you for sharing that you feel something bordering on p, because this has been really bothering me too.

[ah]

I'm sorry if this is going to be a bit dark... well: my F ruined my relationship with my siblings beyond repair by telling lies, declaring I'm crazy, telling a similar sob story, pretending to be caring and to call and write me daily (in reality he hasn't called me in a decade, and only wrote once a year to invite me out to lunch so he could remind me he's rich and I'm penniless and dying and he'll never lift a finger to save or help me, to curse and threaten and call me evil, 'the problem', waste of oxygen 'etc.) and it worked perfectly with everyone. Everybody buys it to this day... everybody.

Abusers I met as an adult have done the same with the same level of stellar success.
At some point I'd meet someone new who also knew the abusers, we'd become friends but then next time I'd see them they'd ignore me like the plague, having been warned I'm evil. This has happened more times than I could count.

I hope your Nm hasn't done anything this extreme, but I think if I were you I'd trust that gut feeling. With a narcissist, my bet is you aren't being paranoid at all. You're fearful based on past experience. Your worries are realistic, sad as that may sound. It isn't something you imagine, it's real even if most people can't grasp it.
I guess people who haven't gone through it have a hard time imagining it. The level of deceit is beyond belief to them, it's too far from their experiences and that's exactly what the abuser wants. So now if we try to open up we seem crazy and paranoid, not them.

In my experience, trying to talk about it can sometimes make it worse.
The other person doesn't understand it's one-sided abuse, they interpret it as a fight and they think "Not my problem. I'm not getting involved" and withdraw even further. What you share sounds so nuts to anyone who hasn't gone through it that they easily label you as paranoid.
I've tried befriending people who heard lies about me but everything I said and did was distorted by the lies.

I hope none of this is similar in your case, I hope your friends are just busy with their own lives and that's all. But I also wonder, do you have friends who don't know your Nm at all? I think of it as people who 'didn't get the email' about me.

Please know others here understand what that's like, even if people who have been spared this pain won't always be able to get it.

[sanmagic7]

i don't know if it's actually paranoia.  it may be a realistic fear, which is very different.  my narc d spread stories about me to her friends in high school to the point that they hated me, wouldn't come to the house, believed that i was beating the crap out of her (her bf refused to come over because he wanted to kill me) and the school psych. even called soc. services on me.  she'd been self-harming, but told her friends the bruises were because of me.

my sister also spread lies about me to my bro.   my first t doted on my hub during couples' therapy, tried to make me responsible for his addictions.  these people spread stories in order to gather allies by making us look like the bad guys.  or, like my ex, just sit back, don't get involved, let us take the fall for whatever goes on so they never look bad.

they're cunning, insidious, crafty, and will go to any length to keep their own inner narrative intact.  i agree with se7 that you may want to ask your friends if anything has gone on behind your back.  since such a thing has gone on before, it makes sense to me that you'd be suspicious that it might be going on again.  plus, it's evidence that makes it absolutely valid you'd be asking if it's happened with them.

best to you with this, sweetie.  this stuff is never easy, never fun. standing with you, right beside you.   love and hugs.

[Kizzie]

Phoebes, this was one of my biggest fears - my covert NPD M's smear campaigns -- and it controlled me for so, so long.  My H had tried to tell me for years that those who know and care about me will know instinctively something is not right, and those who don't really know me but are healthy people will question why a M would criticize/complain etc about their child to them. 

I couldn't take it on board I was just that fearful (well trained by my NPD family), until I just realized one day that he actually was right.  I would never smear my son because I love and respect him. I might complain in a joking, light hearted manner about the state of his room when he was younger, the usual things parents complain about, but certainly never about his character or "bad" behaviour.  I love him and that would just be so demeaning and disrespectful, and would say more about me than him. 

So I guess what I'm saying is that healthier people will recognize there is something amiss about a M who smears her child, while those who take her at face value may not be people you want in your life anyway. I too agree with SE7 that it might be an idea to be open about this with the friends you are concerned about.  Even if your M hasn't been actively smearing you to them, just bringing it up with them could lead to you feeling it's OK to be open about your family issues with them.   

[Sadie48]

Hi Phoebes. I'm new to OOTS and had a thought about your post.  What you call paranoia might actually be somewhat learned behavior from the NPD parent.  My mother has either NPD or BPD -- and she sees ill will everywhere.  She thinks everyone is out to get her or has bad intentions.  If yours did/does the same, you may be simply exhibiting the same coping behavior.  But as others have said, you may also have a legit concern that she means you harm.  I would take heart in that your true friends know the truth.  You could reach out to just one of them and ask if they have heard from your NPDm. 

Breathe! 

[Phoebes]

Thank you everyone-it means a lot that you share your experience. I've come back here several times to respond-I've had my sweet nephew lately and hadn't been on the computer much.

SE7- I think you're smart to have a major boundary about your Nf not coming to your home. That's listening to your gut! They've proven themselves unable to be trusted. Our story has many similarities. Namely the "teaching me a lesson" when I was in true need, and when I had never asked for help before (asking for help is a bad move in my family). But then yes, the guilt trips about how I am supposed to get ready to take care of them. They aren't even old or sick and they have me lined up to sacrifice anything I might have in mind for my own life. I'm sorry they treated you that way and I'm glad you're sticking to your own boundaries. It's unforgivable that they hired a PI. How could they expect you to open your doors now? I would not put it past mine to do that, but one night I actually heard them out on the street talking (they live out of town).

ah-you're right about people not understanding when it hasn't happened to them. People tend to think your story is "your side" or "your interpretation" and surely your own mother wouldn't have ill intentions. Yep. This is exactly why I don't ask them about it. I also try to practice just being me and hoping they will see me for me and not worry what anyone things. It only goes so far. My situation is kinda unique. Of course my true, long time friends see right through it, but these are important newer friends. We play in a music group together and my Nm has shown disdain (jealousy) when I got in this group and tried to taint it from the beginning. These are the people I think she has infiltrated. They don't know my situation, but their friendship is important to me.

San- that's so true that they go to great lengths to keep their inner narrative intact. Well-said. She has done this with family for sure, the one friend in the past for sure, and now I definitely think she is more than capable of running out of desperation and amping it up.

Kizzie- since these are newer friends who are important to me, I'm not sure they know me well enough to know my Nm would be making things up. They would likely hear her at face value because they don't know any better. They are also close to their families so I'm sure they would not get it. My Nm is so covert that she wouldn't say something bad point blank, she would give the impression I am ignoring her for no reason, implying I'm a bad daughter. She plays the victim act with award winning accuracy.

Sadie-Welcome to OOTS! I have thought through that before and try to be mindful not to do that as I do tend to think I am "annoying" people when I'm not, and that my input doesn't mean anything, which it does. I'm trying to relearn these things as I was taught I don't matter. This is something a little different though as I don't think they mean ill will. I think they are assuming I am "normal" lol and sometimes I come across strange because I'm not really. I do have various social difficulties within myself that I'm trying to work through with these new friends without having to drag them into my stuff. This is why I'm concerned my Nm has infiltrated, because she knows just how to ruin my good experiences.

[Rowan]

Hi Phoebes..



It is your story, your truth, your authenticity. Invalidation of that truth is invalidating of you as a person, brings self shame and self isolation - not good enough, not correct, no opinion, my list goes on.

When I went to university (their plan for me, not mine), they demanded calls each day. Every day. They would demand I returned home regularly (every week, or every other week), disrupting any opportunity to spend time with friends. I went NC. I went camping (mid-winter, with a minimal pack). They called the police. They called the chaplaincies. They called the few of my friends that they had numbers for. They called the university. There were notes (multiples) pinned to the door of my room, demanding I call my FOO from other students in the halls that I was living in. They became the reflected anger from my FOO. They were the rage. It isolated me further. Prospective partners that were approved were stationed at home for my returns, prospective partners that I took home, soon after strangely disappeared from my life. I could not account for it, because I didn't understand that it was abuse, along with the financial and emotional manipulation at the time.
I was wary.
I warn new friends to treat my FOO with caution, and then leave them too it, in the eventuality that they meet.



We do understand.



Your concerns are valid, in the same way that your life and perspective is valid, and we are here for you.

Rowan

[Phoebes]

Thank you, Rowan. That means a lot.  So sorry you experienced such intrusive disrespect of your boundaries by the very ones who are supposed to be supportive.