Forgiveness is bulls#@%

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sanmagic7

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Re: Forgiveness is bulls#@%
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2018, 02:47:35 PM »
mourningme, i'm glad you found some solace in these responses.  i'm also glad you're beginning to simply embrace your feelings, emotions, thoughts, etc. as part of the trauma you've experienced.  i think that's a very good sign, something that can be helpful to most everyone. 

it sounds like you're finding your own path thru all this.  i agree with sadie that if we need to forgive anyone, it's ourselves for what we've been taught we are, and how that's manifested itself throughout our lives.   we're not terrible people, we've been carrying shame and guilt that belong to all the others who have hurt us.  our wounds and damage are on them.

you're right - we didn't ask for this, didn't want to be abused.  we learned we had to accept it under fear of death of one kind or another.  it became part of our everyday life.  we coped, we struggled, we survived.  we did what we could with what we were given, and now we have the chance to change our lives.  we have strength beyond measure.

i'm glad you've realized what's gone on and are now giving yourself a chance to have a different life.  sending love and a hug full of care, comfort, and acceptance.

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Erebor

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Re: Forgiveness is bulls#@%
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2018, 08:33:52 PM »
I hear you, mourningme.  I don't think I can ever forgive my father for abandoning my family, or my mother for the emotional abuse we endured from her afterwards.  How do you forgive someone who never acknowledged the harm they did?  Who never apologized?  Who never changed? 

It was a great relief to me, after being raised and imprisioned in cult-like Christian environments where I was forced to 'forgive' abusers for every. single. thing. all the time. no matter how much damage they'd caused. because THAT was being 'Christian'...

to finally realise that absolutely no where in the Bible does God, the biggest forgiver of them all, EVER forgive someone who isn't genuinely sorry and who hasn't acknowledged what they've done.

That freed me from the last bonds of feeling like I had to forgive the worst of FOO and others inspite of them wanting me to suffer.

Edit: Oh, and I had it validated that someone just saying the words 'I'm sorry' doesn't count as an apology if they're just saying it to get you to shut up! I had to hear 'I'm sorry IF you felt that way' so many times, it felt like it tore a wound in my soul.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 08:41:52 PM by Erebor »

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MGrizz

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Re: Forgiveness is bulls#@%
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2018, 03:11:48 AM »

This is how I feel too.  My abusers will be judged (or forgiven) by someone or something much bigger than I. 


Thank you so much for replying to me.
As someone who was not raised with religion....this is a concept I have always struggled with.  Although I have looked in on religion from the outside and at times considered if "letting jesus save me" would truly relieve me of this pain...I cant help but be suspicious. Without intending any disrespect to anyones religious beliefs, and speaking in my personal opinion only, as someone who wasn't fed religion as a child I find it very difficult to wrap my head around it. It begs all those questions..if there is something bigger then why are some of us put through such horrors in our lives? In my case why are innocent children ruined by the evilness of some adults without consequence? And then said child grows up, battles with the consequence in their EVERY WAKING moment...and they are ridiculed into relieving all abusers of guilt. My brain and my body wholeheartedly rejects it.

Sorry I wasn't very clear.  I was not raised with religion either and I too, as a child, often wondered if there is something or someone bigger than us then why are we put through the horrors we went through.  That being said, even though I don't know anything about religion, I'd like to think that the abuser will be judged in the end and the thought does give me a bit of comfort, thinking that the abuser would have to answer to someone or something more powerful than he for what he did  - one never knows

What I was trying to say in my earlier response was that I took the forgiveness out of my hands and put it back in the abuser's hands to do with what he will. I acknowledge what he did but It's not in me to forgive his evil; he needs to forgive his own evil. And by handing that 'requirement' back to him, I feel I took my power back.

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Sceal

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Re: Forgiveness is bulls#@%
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2018, 06:15:27 AM »
I was talking with my psychologist last week about forgiveness. And I told here there are things in my past that I might be able to work towards forgiving, but there are certain things and certain people I will never want to forgive - because I feel they do not deserve it. And she agreed, she agreed that there are things that are unforgiveable.

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mourningme

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Re: Forgiveness is bulls#@%
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2018, 11:10:46 AM »
Hi mgrizz, thank you for replying again. I completely agree with you, finding some comfort in the thought that my abusers will be judged and made to answer for their evil actions against other humans. I imagine my one perp who is already dead burning in an eternity of * for the hurt he caused to me and many others who werent protected from him. He was offered up a buffet of small children to abuse across his life and he happily did so ruining many lives. Now he is dead and instead of the relief I so craved...I have this hopeless helpless knowledge that he is still ruining my life every damn day now..all these years later. And then the battle of "them still winning" sinks me so much more. The burn of having these things wreak havoc on every facet of my adult life...the despair.
 Its so incredibly painful so imagining him burning in * does give me comfort...I just wish I knew if * was anything more than a man made construction built to control people on Earth.
Im so glad that you were able to get your power back and I am truly happy for you in your situation..I wrestle with releasing it to a higher power and I hope I can get there one day.

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mourningme

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Re: Forgiveness is bulls#@%
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2018, 11:18:08 AM »
I was talking with my psychologist last week about forgiveness. And I told here there are things in my past that I might be able to work towards forgiving, but there are certain things and certain people I will never want to forgive - because I feel they do not deserve it. And she agreed, she agreed that there are things that are unforgiveable.

Thank you for sharing this with me. Thank you for helping validate my feelings on forgiveness and sharing that your psychologist didn't push you into it but agreed that there are things that are unforgivable. 

I am grateful to every person here who has responded. I feel like I am getting heard for the first time in my entire life. ❤

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LittleBoat

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Re: Forgiveness is bulls#@%
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2018, 02:18:41 PM »
Dear mourningme,

I agree with you, wholeheartedly.  The whole culture in this country stresses forgiveness, especially of one's parents.  But anger is a very appropriate and necessary emotion to feel, as is a whole range of other emotions that need addressing in order to heal.  It is toxic to insist on forgiveness.  It is toxic to tell a victim that anger is inappropriate in any way.

Pete Walker wrote a whole book arguing against this weird insistence that we forgive.  I recommend the book.  It's called The Tao of Fully Feeling.  He is extremely direct in his criticism of spiritual and therapeutic practices that tell victims their job is to forgive without any regard for victims' plights.  Alice Miller is another amazing advocate for victims of trauma, and she shows absolutely no patience for insisting that victims must forgive in order to "heal."  So there are folks in the psychiatric field, who are on our side.  I, personally, have found great comfort in their work.  Even when I'm not reading them, I am glad to know that there is a movement in the psychiatric field that pushes back against the weird sanctity of forgiveness.  All best to you.  I hope you continue to share your insights in this forum. 

All best, LittleBoat